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Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey there i'm new to the warhammer game universe. I'm familiar with a lot of the lore and all that kind of stuff. But recently i started collecting models for my very first army which is a chaos daemon army.
Right now i've only bought this starter set for nurgles (Start collecting! Daemons of nurgle) which includes x10 plaguebearers, x3 Nurglings, x3 Plague drones, and x1 Herald of nurgle.
I thought it was really awesome that they sold it so cheap with all those models in it My best friend has played warhammer for over 5 years and he's favorite part is the painting process.
So we decided that i give him a small amount of money for painting the models i buy, which he agreed to. Then later he talked about that he was curious to see how well nurgles would functioned.
As a player who has only experienced battles through an old school club i went to i couldn't quite see why he would be curious to see these in battle compared to other armies
He told me about a few of chaos daemons special rules that he were familiar with. At first i was a little bit shocked cause a lot of their rules seemed to be kinda random.
And with random i mean it's a random chance if they'll work since they are able to debuff themself in the start of your turn? Of course they're also able to buff themselves but just the fact that they have a chance to debuff is shocking
So i read a few reviews online and tactics of how to use a chaos daemon army. And i found a lot of people complaining about how almost the entire chaos daemon army apparently got nerfed with the 6th edition of warhammer 40k?
I don't fully understand their states since i am not a very experienced player. But i did understand why plaguebearers losing the special rule ''feel no pain'' was a devastating thing. Now i'm just left with the question can chaos daemons really work in 40K?
My friend plays Necrons, and i really really fell in love with the chaos daemon army so i really want to know if i can make a worthy army for 40K? I am simply asking you more experienced players to give a newbie some advices
Something i would really like to get answered is what are the 4 god's servants good for? As far as i understand Nurgles are just hard to get rid of but not really good in combat. So what are the plaguebearers, bloodletters, pink horrors, and Daemonettes of Slaanesh truely good for?
I really want to build an army with monsters mixed from all 4 gods and i would like to know who works well together and what they all do, thank you for reading.

By the way i'm from Denmark and English is not my first language so yeah.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/13 16:43:14


 
   
Made in ca
Deadshot Weapon Moderati




Okay, so you want to find the rules for the Daemonic Incursion from the Battlezone: Fenris supplement. Also, the Codex: Chaos Daemons book.
   
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They are good, but very old (their rules are old I mean compared to the latest edition).

This means many of their models are either REALLY GOOD or BAD BAD BAD. in general, anything you can turn into a flying monstrous creature, especially big bird daddy Kairos Fateweaver, is awesome.

Screamers of Tzeentch, Winged Daemon Princes/Bloodthirsters, Kairos, Pink Horrors (who summon more daemons), soul grinders, flesh hounds of Khorne, nurglings, spawn: excellent.

Beasts of any God, non winged greaters/princes, blood letters, bloodcrushers, seekers, most chariots, flamers: terrible for the most part.

Daemons can make solid lists that win top tournaments but only with the best vbuilds available to them.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

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Regular Dakkanaut




go tzeentch and summon summon summon.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I really only play tzeentch and khorne, but tzeentch is quite competitive, and if you play khorne in the khorne daemonkin codex, they can be very good as well.

But in my opinion, tzeentch doesn't function like it should in 7th edition due to the psychic phase overhaul. The codex was designed when psychic tests were done on leadership, so you have a strange situation where units representing the god of sorcery have no bonuses to casting at all (They have +3 leadership when manifesting spells, which does nearly nothing).

These deficiencies are balanced out however by the Curse of the Wulfen supplement. This supplement adds powerful formations, but also new psychic tables that give tzeentch units access to a strength D weapon for example, and a new set of warlord traits and artefacts for each god, all of which are pretty powerful. To top it off, the new daemonology table in the 7th edition rule book is very beneficial to daemons, as other codexes have to suffer "super perils" when trying to utilize the powers.

Bottom line is there are definitely competitive ways to play daemons right now, especially if you want to ally in some chaos space marines (although you have to be careful, because there are a lot of aspects of the CSM codex that suck right now too) or if you want to utilize some of the new formations.
   
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






No, daemons are not useless, and they have won major recent tournaments.

Daemons are a viable army, but they require a high skill set and understanding of the game to use. They are very unforgiving and there is a lot of randomness that keeps you on your toes.

Every unit has a role, some units are terrible, but that can be said for many books. If you use a unit for the wrong role, it will fail horribly. Using Curse of the Wulfen, daemons got an OK boost in casual play, and a decent boost in competitive play. The incursion is a crappy super detachment as it requires too much mono building.

If you are not prepared to accidentally shoot yourself int he foot, then limp to your foe and stab them in the eye, Daemons are not the army for you.

Try out this thread

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/684581.page

It is for the infernal tetrad. If you play infernal tetrad with Tallyband, it is one of the safest ways to play Daemons. It is also terribly powerful and doesn't require buying too many models, as you can just buy 4 princes, 2-3 boxes nurglings, some spare bases, a herald, and a plaguebearer box.

Daemons ARE random though, it is their gimmick.

   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





demons needs good playskills to be competitive,they are a strong army if the player know how use them, if you want play tetrad as Gwarsh41 suggest, i suggest you to play it with a combined army detachment with objective secure troops and maybe heralds to put up warp charges, for me tallybad did not fit into tetrad, but is just my opinion after some games with it, now i play the tetrad and CAD with 11 horrors 10 plaguebearers 3°lev Tz herald with paradox and 2°lev N herald with bell, it works nice.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

They are far from useless. An army being good in the game involves either being able to remove your enemies models without much trouble, or making your own really hard to take off. Being really good in the game is being able to do both simultaneously. Daemons can do this, but with a small number of builds, which means taking the units the_Scotsman suggested as excellent. If you want a fluffy daemon army, (excluding mono tzeentch) you might find yourself with a weak list in even a friendly environment. All that said, go for the models you like the most, rules change, but great models are great models.

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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Daemons are one of the strongest armies you can play, especially with the new wulfen update. Unfortunately most of the units are crap. Like won't make it halfway up the board before dying kind of crap.

Thankfully for you the get started with nurgle box is a pretty good start. Everything in it is on the better end of the daemon spectrum but not on the best end of it.

Plague bearers, and nurglings are probably the second best troops in the codex. They have shrouding so they can be really hard to remove from any terrain, and can hold objectives well. Also they are tough enough to tarpit things in close combat. Definitely playable.

Plague drones are awesome. They are tough and fast. They can grab midfield objectives and tank lots of shooting if they can find cover. With a banner they can run upfield and let other daemons deepstrike around them without scatter. They are a bit pricy, but if you don't find them fitting into a lot of your lists they are one of the best things to summon.

Heralds of nurgle have access to a new artifact in curse of the wulfen called the doomsday bell that is all kinds of awesome. Also they can be upgraded to give feel no pain to their unit which further increases how survivable nurgle stuff is.

Daemon randomness can really hurt. The -1 invuln save will lose you games. I suggest getting fateweaver he pretty much solves the problem completely.

Other than that daemon princes, lords of change, and bloodthirsters are all good. Always take 2 greater rewards on them. Heralds of tzeentch especially on discs are really good. The new artifact called the paradox basically lets you guarantee summon every turn. I had a herald of tzeentch summon 9 plague drones, 3 screamers, and another herald of tzeentch last game. The grimoire of true names is awesome if you bring fateweaver otherwise its pretty random. Pink horrors are your go to troop because they bring cheap warp charges. Screamers with heralds make a very fast durable unit that can do basically everything you need.
   
Made in jp
Frothing Warhound of Chaos




Daemons are good and can be competitive if tailored, especially using the new rules coming back from the Warp with wulfens.

IMHO They may not be the top-tier though (like marines and eldar) but not a useless army anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 00:10:24


 
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





some formtions from curse of the wulfen can beat to death eldars and also maarines war convication, murderhorde+burning skyhost have great matchup against them.

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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

Daemons are good. The "Collecting Nurgle" box is great, as everything in there is awesome. I got 4 of the boxes as the base for my nurgle army.

As others have mentioned, the wulfen book really helped daemons out. Some of the new formations are fantastic.
   
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Daemons are mid-mid tier army, some builds are quite good they can do a decent daemonzilla army or a horde of chaos and both are functional.

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Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





they are mid tier when played by average players when played by who know how.... they are top tier still...

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Lesser Daemon of Chaos




New England

Daemons can be a very powerful army but they are unforgiving.
It takes skill and a real understanding of the game to get the most out of daemons.
   
Made in no
Dakka Veteran




 blackmage wrote:
they are mid tier when played by average players when played by who know how.... they are top tier still...


This. Daemons can be hard to master and many (most) builds rely on Kairos Fateweaver for reducing the randomness-factor through re-roll Warp Storms and increasing the chance of getting off a Grimoire, but in the right hands, Daemons are definitely a top-tier army.

They have a lot of special rules to remember and learn, which can take some effort for a new player, but it's definitely worth it. The new formations help them a lot, and most competitive builds you see these days utilize one of the new formations, like a Tallyband, Murderhorde, Infernal Tetrad and/or a Burning Skyhost + Daemon Lord (for Kairos/Be'Lakor).

Nurgle Daemons are good because they are resilient (Shrouded gives you good cover in terrain) and all have Defensive grenades which can be very useful against some armies with low initiative (Tau, Orks, Necrons). Plague drones are also fast and hit hard in combat. Google for Nick Nanavati's plague drone star army for example of how they can be very strong and tournament winning (probably wouldn't win today, with an ever-changing top competitive meta, but it should definitely work well in a smaller group). The Prince also get a 2+ jink Cover save so you can be pretty safe by just gliding, to assault turn 2. Nurglings are the cheapest troop, which is very useful for many builds where you take troops as a tax.

Slaanesh are very fast, hit hard (unless they have to charge through terrain), but are very fragile.

Pink Horrors provide cheap warp charges, and are durable against shooting (Go to Ground in terrain for a 3/4+ cover, re-rolling 1s is solid!), which is useful as many Daemon armies use a fair amount of psychic powers. Screamers are also the fastest unit in the codex, great for objective grabs. Their slash attacks are also great against things like Invisible units, Culexus assassins, etc.

Bloodletters have ap3 attacks, which is nice, but have too few attacks and are too fragile to really be worth it imo. Flesh Hounds are really good though, as they are fast, hit pretty hard and dont cost all that much.

Examples of decent to good Daemon builds:
-Herald Hammer, a pretty old build utilizing the fast units from all Gods, outclassed againt competitive builds today, but it's fun, thematic and far from bad.
-Flying Circus - I think it was BAO that was won by a Flying Circus list but I might remember wrong. Baically a bunch of big daemons buffing each other, typically Be'Lakor, Kairos, a Prince with the Grimoire, and a Bloodthirster with the D-weapon axe
- MSU daemons with the new formations. https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/26/40k-list-tech-one-daemon-list-to-roll-them-all/
- Variations on the Infernal Tetrad
-Screamer"stars" - Norwegian Masters was won by Kairos, several Heralds, Pink Horrors and 3 units of 9 Screamers in January this year (by a very good player who knows this list in and out, I should add)

Throwing in an interesting article on the Warp Storm table: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/17/chaos-daemons-breaking-the-warp-storm-table-karios-style/
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

They are quite an old Codex but can hang with the big boys (SM, Eldar, Tau and Necrons) some of the time.

If you're looking at exclusively Khorne Daemons, Khorne Daemonkin does it better due to BftBG and Fearless.

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Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Daemons are also battle brothers with Chaos Space Marines and Renegade Knights, so you got some backup in the form of those as well. Normally this goes without saying for most armies, but Nurgle daemons benefit a lot from CSM allies as Nurgle-marked CSM are very powerful (+1 Toughness goes a long way on any model whereas the other marks tend to be situational, not to mention the utter boss-ness that is Plague Marines).

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Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





-Flying Circus - I think it was BAO that was won by a Flying Circus list but I might remember wrong. Baically a bunch of big daemons buffing each other, typically Be'Lakor, Kairos, a Prince with the Grimoire, and a Bloodthirster with the D-weapon axe
- MSU daemons with the new formations. https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/04/26/40k-list-tech-one-daemon-list-to-roll-them-all/

i personally have good results with both of them at tourney, about 2°/4° place last 4 tourney i played with both of them, probably the 2nd one right now is better because it has great matchup against toptier codex like SM and eldar

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 19:59:14


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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Take a unit of screamers with a herald of Tzeentch on disc rocking a grimoire. Take Kairos as your warlord (let's you re-roll the random daemon table). Use a tallyband formation to get access to +/- 1 on said random daemon table (will require small unit of furies as well). Enjoy whatever else you throw in to taste. I'm currently looking at adding a 3-exalted seeker chariot because it's super cheap and looks like it'll murder anything it hits (12D6 Impact hits, if at full strength, plus a lash on each alluress). But you have big toys and can do some crazy stuff. But a core of screamer-star with Grimoire herald (not random, just pick it as exalted gift and skip the roll) and Kairos will kick some serious ass. Just make sure Kairos is in the tallyband formation.

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Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





scremer star right now is not strong like before, stil a good unit but not broken like before, burning skyhost+murdehorde+kairos is a strong fomation able t kick many asses

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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Why is screamerstar weak? I've never lost the unit, and it's killed everything it hit in my local area.

Also...I'm totally hijacking the thread, but has anyone tried a seeker cavalcade unit? 3 at barebones comes in a little over 100 points...and is either an amazing target to keep nastier items alive or can shish-kabob anything shy of a land raider or wraiths in CC with 6D6 S4 rending HoW hits. Plus a further 15 rending cc attacks.

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Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





D weapons and stomps kill them, then they cant kill other deathstars 1st time you miss a cursed earth or a grimorie your are fethed up, see what happened to alan barajimovic semi final match he played at last large tournament. That is still a good unit but usually it has support unit role

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 blackmage wrote:
D weapons and stomps kill them, then they cant kill other deathstars 1st time you miss a cursed earth or a grimorie your are fethed up, see what happened to alan barajimovic semi final match he played at last large tournament. That is still a good unit but usually it has support unit role
If it had hit and run, it would be really awesome.
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 labmouse42 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
D weapons and stomps kill them, then they cant kill other deathstars 1st time you miss a cursed earth or a grimorie your are fethed up, see what happened to alan barajimovic semi final match he played at last large tournament. That is still a good unit but usually it has support unit role
If it had hit and run, it would be really awesome.

yes that is another reason why you cant rely on them to win games, often with top tier list they just froze in place some threath, pray they never fail cursed earth or grimorie, and that happen most times one think.

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 blackmage wrote:
 labmouse42 wrote:
 blackmage wrote:
D weapons and stomps kill them, then they cant kill other deathstars 1st time you miss a cursed earth or a grimorie your are fethed up, see what happened to alan barajimovic semi final match he played at last large tournament. That is still a good unit but usually it has support unit role
If it had hit and run, it would be really awesome.

yes that is another reason why you cant rely on them to win games, often with top tier list they just froze in place some threath, pray they never fail cursed earth or grimorie, and that happen most times one think.
One squad of 20 KDK dogs will tie them up the entire game. KDK dogs are amazing because they are fearless, so even if they lose those combats they don't dissolve like CD dogs.
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Yes they wil not dissolve and if the screamstar fail grimorie, they beat it to death most of times, also if you have reroll i failed sometimes grimorie, that can happen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/15 01:32:33


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8/9 chance even

One problem I see a lot of player do when they use a reroll is that they pick the dice up and plop it right back down on the table without a good roll. This causes the dice to often just land on the same pip. I'm guilty of the same thing occasionally when I get overly excited about making that roll.

That's why I always roll 2 dice whenever possible for a reroll. Lets say that I'm rolling a 5+ save with a reroll and a 4+ FNP. I'll pick up 2 red dice and 1 blue dice and roll them all at once. If any red dice comes up a 5+ or the blue a 4+ then the save was made. I make it clear what I'm doing before I roll the dice and it's a lot faster and prevents plop rolling.
   
Made in it
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





in a tourney some months ago i was at table 2 with a demon list with a large screamstar+3 heralds into them, well.... i failed grimorie 1st, 2nd and 3rd turn... lucky me my opponent cant get advantage by it and i took acceptable damage, anyway was weird a lot....

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poplex wrote:
Hey there i'm new to the warhammer game universe. I'm familiar with a lot of the lore and all that kind of stuff. But recently i started collecting models for my very first army which is a chaos daemon army.
Right now i've only bought this starter set for nurgles (Start collecting! Daemons of nurgle) which includes x10 plaguebearers, x3 Nurglings, x3 Plague drones, and x1 Herald of nurgle.
I thought it was really awesome that they sold it so cheap with all those models in it My best friend has played warhammer for over 5 years and he's favorite part is the painting process.
So we decided that i give him a small amount of money for painting the models i buy, which he agreed to. Then later he talked about that he was curious to see how well nurgles would functioned.
As a player who has only experienced battles through an old school club i went to i couldn't quite see why he would be curious to see these in battle compared to other armies
He told me about a few of chaos daemons special rules that he were familiar with. At first i was a little bit shocked cause a lot of their rules seemed to be kinda random.
And with random i mean it's a random chance if they'll work since they are able to debuff themself in the start of your turn? Of course they're also able to buff themselves but just the fact that they have a chance to debuff is shocking
So i read a few reviews online and tactics of how to use a chaos daemon army. And i found a lot of people complaining about how almost the entire chaos daemon army apparently got nerfed with the 6th edition of warhammer 40k?
I don't fully understand their states since i am not a very experienced player. But i did understand why plaguebearers losing the special rule ''feel no pain'' was a devastating thing. Now i'm just left with the question can chaos daemons really work in 40K?
My friend plays Necrons, and i really really fell in love with the chaos daemon army so i really want to know if i can make a worthy army for 40K? I am simply asking you more experienced players to give a newbie some advices
Something i would really like to get answered is what are the 4 god's servants good for? As far as i understand Nurgles are just hard to get rid of but not really good in combat. So what are the plaguebearers, bloodletters, pink horrors, and Daemonettes of Slaanesh truely good for?
I really want to build an army with monsters mixed from all 4 gods and i would like to know who works well together and what they all do, thank you for reading.

By the way i'm from Denmark and English is not my first language so yeah.


Plaguebearers get almost armywide FNP with the new wulfen rules and Loci, and can glance any vehicle to death easily as well as being cheap.

10 deamonettes (90 points) can easily kill a squad of terminators (over 200 pts) in close combat. The rending will also deal with most vehicles and walkers they come in combat making them devistating and incredibly powerful but they are very squishy and will die as fast as they can move (very) so they are best taken in high numbers, that being said they are cheap as anything so why not? I field 6 units of daemonettes with Incursion and loci of beguilment and its very very dirty, and can table marines if you deepstrike or manouver successfully

Khorn Bloodletters are specifically desgined to kill SM and the do so quite efficiently

These are just the basic units this is not including, overwhelming psykic presence, frankly overpowered vehicles (soul grinders) and much much more.

Daemons are easily rivals to Eldar, Tau and Necrons BUT require both skill and luck, if you don't believe me look at 7th edition tournament results and daemons are almost always in top 3 or 5 sometimes even first. Just remember they are a brutal army if you don't know how to play properly

Keep in mind there are more stategies than just "grimoire and cursed earth" spamming daemonettes, or plaguebearers is equally viable as well as taking belakor with other greater daemons. This army is like 4 armies in 1
   
 
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