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FIrst off a little about me. I served in the Air force as security forces for 6 years, been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan each once. So I know what it means to me about serving our country. I wish my brother(in law) would understand this. He served 2 weeks in Marine Corps Basic training(he gave up claiming his knee hurt), He got to his 2nd week and after receiving a letter from his fiance to come home, he now claims he is hurt and after 2 months of med hold, comes home. Only to start working as a tower climber. Doesn't seem right to me to fall out because of knee problems, only to go into a job that is physically stressful. and now he considers himself a marine corps Veteran. Marpat pants, semper fi brotherhood shirt, Marine corps bracelet, belt buckle, 8 point marpat cover. Devil Dogs stickers on vehicle. Everyday he wears at least 2 of the above items it seems. He wears his dog tags as "proof of service" and people eat it up, and give him discounts with no ID, just see the tags and assume. When people ask him about where he was stationed at during small talk, he says He was stationed in San Diego(Marines Boot camp training site) and doesn't say more. It irritates me because I feel that he is only telling half of the story. I have talked about it to him, yelled about it to him, explained in public when he tries to do it. Nothing works. He thinks he is better than me since I was "only Air Force". Being a marine trumps my service apparently, and brings it up every so often.
So my questions are
1) Should I care that he is posing
2) From a Marines standpoint, Is he a marine
3) What to do about it.
4) Am I being overly salty and blowing the situation out of proportion?

Well, he wasn't a Marine. End of story.

This is what I thought. Just wanted to hear others thoughts on the matter and whether I am being too salty on the matter. Not being a marine myself I wouldn't understand the brotherhood, according to him. I am hoping that he runs into a real marine and gets called out on it.

He didn't make it out of basic, he doesn't get any special considerations. He never wore that Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, so he has no right to call himself a Marine.

Dude's an asshat. Nothing you can do about it. Best to just ignore it, or at the most, just point out to people that he's lying, if he's trying to use it for material gain.

The fact he has a dd214 gives him the feeling I think. He is an Ass-hat and the fact he is my brother-in-law pisses me off since I gotta play nice at the wife and mom-in-laws request.

 conker249 wrote:
The fact he has a dd214 gives him the feeling.

My wife has a DD-214. She went to Army basic twice. Didn't make it through either time. Has a total of 8 months Active Duty service. She never claims to have been a Soldier though.

Like I said though, if this dude is this hard up on it, nothing you can do is ever going to change his mind on it. All that is really likely to do it is a group of real Marines kicking his ass over it.

If he didn't complete training and didn't earn the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, then he didn't earn the title Marine.

 conker249 wrote:
This is what I thought. Just wanted to hear others thoughts on the matter and whether I am being too salty on the matter. Not being a marine myself I wouldn't understand the brotherhood, according to him. I am hoping that he runs into a real marine and gets called out on it.

You not being a Marine doesn't mean you know nothing about brotherhood.... as djones pointed out... he hasn't earned the globe and anchor.

Specifically, as I have a number of friends who were marines I will say that they've told me: he didn't pass the Crucible, didn't earn his dress blues, didn't earn that golden globe/anchor on the collar.... He isn't a marine. He's just a soft, washed out scrub.

As a non-military person, I was under the impression that you had to complete basic training to get in to the armed forces.

Kinda like how you have to pass the bar(is that right?) to become a lawyer or pass a test in order to become an LPN or RN.

Just because you take the class(and fail out) doesn't mean you get the title.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
As a non-military person, I was under the impression that you had to complete basic training to get in to the armed forces.

Kinda like how you have to pass the bar(is that right?) to become a lawyer or pass a test in order to become an LPN or RN.

Just because you take the class(and fail out) doesn't mean you get the title.

That is how I always understood it as well.

Umm if you do not graduate the boot camp and earn the symbols and such then your just a civilian who failed basic training.

Its like taking a class but not taking the exam. You are not tgat, you never passed and took the final exam.
Thus you never earned the title or qualification.

You a a college drop out... Not a graduate .... Basicaly.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
As a non-military person, I was under the impression that you had to complete basic training to get in to the armed forces.

Kinda like how you have to pass the bar(is that right?) to become a lawyer or pass a test in order to become an LPN or RN.

Just because you take the class(and fail out) doesn't mean you get the title.

You do. In the Air Force I was a trainee until they gave me my Airmens coin at graduation. In the marines you earn the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor much in the same way, just more bad ass. The Army gives out candy I think.

Reason I bring it up is because on Veterans day it bugs the hell out of me, and that is coming up so it is fresh on my mind. I wish I had local actual Marines to talk to him, in their own way.
Consensus shows just to ignore, bite my tongue, and move on. It is hard for me to because most of my family has served and this holiday means a lot to me. Having someone fake it, is just wrong.

I bought a lottery ticket a few weeks ago.

I nearly won the jackpot, but I never got all the numbers....

See where this is going?

Accept the fact that the guy is an asshat, accept that you can't choose your family, and don't scorn him, pity him for sinking to that level....

Why not drive him up to a marine veterans thing on veterans day as a treat. You'll either get to set your mind at ease or get a good laugh.

You could just snap and beat his ass on Veteran's day when he opens his mouth. If he is the real marine he says he is you shouldn't win

I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.


On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.


On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.

Bingo, my wife gets no benefits. This guy gets no benefits. If he was separated on a service related injury (his knee), and was a true Marine, he'd have benefits for it.

 djones520 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".

LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.

Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.

There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.

I guess it comes down to: Do you care about your brother more than you care about being right?
People do stupid, stupid things. People we care about do them too. This one hits close to a nerve for you, but in the bigger picture, which bothers you more? Being correct, or letting him be an idiot, but an idiot in your life?

 djones520 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.


On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.

Bingo, my wife gets no benefits. This guy gets no benefits. If he was separated on a service related injury (his knee), and was a true Marine, he'd have benefits for it.

And, as has been pointed out, if you don't graduate the course you don't get the title to which graduation entitles you. Failing Ranger School does not get you a tab. Failing Airborne school does not get you wings. Failing basic training does not make you a Marine/Soldier/Airman/Sailor. It makes you someone who tried and failed. Period.

Are people E-1s when they show up to basic?

We take care of plenty of people at the VA who never made it through basic, some with no real service connected injuries.

 CptJake wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't.... as others have mentioned.


On another note, IIRC, if a person fails out of their basic training, they still get a DD 214, but the block that indicates service should reflect that, ergo, no Veteran's benefits or anything.

Bingo, my wife gets no benefits. This guy gets no benefits. If he was separated on a service related injury (his knee), and was a true Marine, he'd have benefits for it.

And, as has been pointed out, if you don't graduate the course you don't get the title to which graduation entitles you. Failing Ranger School does not get you a tab. Failing Airborne school does not get you wings. Failing basic training does not make you a Marine/Soldier/Airman/Sailor. It makes you someone who tried and failed. Period.

except boot camp is a different thing all together. But this is the military we're talking about, someone here must be in the marines, can you quote the regulations on when you become a marine. It's probably next to a code red.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".

LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.

Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.

There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.

Oh cute. The squid's got jokes. Go ask a Marine at which point they become a Marine. It's the day they get to wear that insignia of theirs. Just like the ritual we go through to get to the point to be called Airmen. Soldier's get to call themselves Soldier's after completing Basic. And given the 18 year vet of the Navy that's I'm real good friends with, you started calling yourself Sailor after completing Battle Station's, so maybe you should cut the crap.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".

LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.

Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.

There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.

Bull gak.

At the end of The Crucible, recruits march to the Emblem Ceremony where Drill Instructors present their platoons with the Marine Corps Emblem—the Eagle, Globe and Anchor—and address recruits as "Marine" for the first time.

Receiving the emblem signifies that the recruits have earned a place in the Marine Corps, and what's earned is theirs forever. They will now stand side by side with their instructors at graduation as part of the Few.

That ceremony, conducted AFTER The Crucible, is a clear point at which the recruit becomes a Marine. Any argument against that is silly. Failing the course but having enlisted does not make you a Marine.

http://www.marines.com/becoming-a-marine/recruit-training

 djones520 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I get what you guys are saying about making it through bootcamp. On the other hand though, he did swear his oath and was on active duty while in boot camp.

It's really just a matter of opinion if he's a marine or not.

It really isn't. As someone stated earlier, if someone doesn't pass the Bar, they don't get to be called a lawyer. This is the same thing. I didn't earn the right to call myself an Airman until I passed Warrior Week in basic training, and received the Airman's coin. Until that point I was simply "Trainee Jones". After that day, I was "Airman Jones".

LOL airmen, they really are their own little world. I can imagine warrior week, ok trainee's go ride your bikes.

Hell I never got the Sailors coin, so I guess after doing my 20 years I'm not a sailor. Once I stepped into boot camp I was recruit lynch, the day I left I was still recruit lynch.

There is no defined point in which you become a marine, other than swearing the oath.

Oh cute. The squid's got jokes. Go ask a Marine at which point they become a Marine. It's the day they get to wear that insignia of theirs. Just like the ritual we go through to get to the point to be called Airmen. Soldier's get to call themselves Soldier's after completing Basic. And given the 18 year vet of the Navy that's I'm real good friends with, you started calling yourself Sailor after completing Battle Station's, so maybe you should cut the crap.

That's just their opinion, there is no defined point, unless someone can quote a regulation. I also never did battle stations, he probably went to boot camp in great lakes, I was chilling in orlando different places, different rituals, different opinions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what I do recall is getting an ID card that identified me as a sailor very early in boot camp

 d-usa wrote:
Are people E-1s when they show up to basic?

We take care of plenty of people at the VA who never made it through basic, some with no real service connected injuries.

Curious - how does that work exactly? If you sign up for the military, and wash out of basic, how much right do you have to treatment from the VA? At what point does it start, how much time in or what have you do you need?

Do marines start their active duty the day they show up to boot camp, or are they different than other services?

Your ID card said US Navy. It said Seaman Recruit, and E1, because that was your rank. It never said Sailor.