40k New Edition Summary - 14th June 17: Lord Duncan paints Primaris in Gravis/non-codex SM focus

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**wuestenfux**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I just want to get playing with the new rules.

Whilst it may not have done away with imbalance altogether, from what we've heard, the gap has been significantly closed.

I'm skeptical here. The rule set incl. the rules for the models/units is too big to get balanced sufficiently well. There will be gaps, loop holes, and OP and underwhelming units everywhere. No elusions here.

**wuestenfux**

The summary of the known rumors does not give a complete picture. The sum is often greater than the parts. I hope this also holds for the new release. I've some things I like, some other things I don't.

**wuestenfux**

The discussion about the new rule set is a bit a waste of time, since GW have given us only part of the rules. They opened the door a bit and let us have a glance into a shiny new room they say. I'm cautious since the OP and underwhelming units/models, gaps and loop holes of the rule set are glooming everywhere.

**wuestenfux**

Sidstyler wrote:
Man, vehicles might as well be useless now. First they made it so land raiders could be killed by lasguns, now this?!

I'm gonna burn my models!

What is then the focus of the new edition. Its not on vehicles.
Is it on basic infantry (troops)?

**wuestenfux**

Rippy wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
Sidstyler wrote:
Man, vehicles might as well be useless now. First they made it so land raiders could be killed by lasguns, now this?!

I'm gonna burn my models!

What is then the focus of the new edition. Its not on vehicles.
Is it on basic infantry (troops)?

Focus is on balance; bring what you want, it's all viable, though balance your build to deal with anything

Balancing is wishful thinking. Its not achievable since the problem is NP-hard I guess.

**wuestenfux**

What can we expect to preorder at the earliest data?
The rules are free. But to what extent?

**wuestenfux**

Q: Dark Eldar are seeming better and better now!
A: Oh yes. Have the Raider charge in before the Wyches do and soak up the over watch? Yes please...

Now GW becomes nuts!
In each edition some of the rules are ridiculous and here we are.

**wuestenfux**

Well, I'm a bit confused of all the releases GW is planning to make.
Free rules, rule book, codices. All released in a short time frame?
All reasonably priced?

**wuestenfux**

DiscoKing wrote:
New 40k 17th June,Pre-orders 3rd June!
· 2x Intercessors Squad with rifles
· 1x Hellblasters Squad with plasma guns
· 1x Inceptors squad with twin assault bolters
· Primaris Lieutenant with power sword
· Primaris Lieutenant with auto-bolt rifle
· Primaris Ancient
· Captain in Gravis armour
· Plague Marine Squad
· Foetid Bloat Drone
· Poxwalkers squad
· Lord of Contagion
· Noxious Blightbringer
· Malignant Plaguecaster
A 24-page Death Guard book
· A 24 page Primaris book
· 8 page Core Rules Booklet (A handy in game reference)
· A colour assembly guide fkr all the miniatures
· Gaming accessories, such as 12 red D6 dice, a 12” range rules, decal sheet for the Primaris Space Marines, including iconography for Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves.
Boost post

Nice. Is this the starter set they were talking about?

**wuestenfux**

BrianDavion wrote:
Garion wrote:
Starter set retail price is 125€. Confirmed by an online shop

ouch thats gonna be a little costly. guess I'm eating Ramen for June

No I think its reasonably priced.
I have enough grey (unpainted) Marines from the recent starter sets. So I will skip it and concentrate on the armies I have.

**wuestenfux**

guru wrote:
From miniwars comments

Dark Imperium boxset 125€
Index book 20€ each
Warhammer 40.000 book 45€
Tactical Objectives 10€
Command Dice 15€
Sector Imperialis Objectives 25€
Combat Gauge 8€
Wound Trackers 10€

http://www.miniwars.eu/2017/05/warhammer-40000-dark-imperium.html#disqus_thread

The Warhammer 40k bood is the rule book?
And the index books are the books of the factions containing the pt values?

**wuestenfux**

PossumCraft wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
PossumCraft wrote:
Blargh, Space Maureens and slighty different Space Maureens make for a no buy on the boxed set.

Guess I get to eat real food and buy wine for June

Well don't be too happy. You still have rulebook and faction book to buy. That or stick to older edition.

I was of the impression the rules were going to be free?

I guess we will get an impression of the rule set for free.

**wuestenfux**

Well, I think we will see a nice bunch of Marines in the starter set. This is worth buying even for non-Marine players. Same went for the AoS Blood Warriors and whatnot.

**wuestenfux**

Dark Imperium boxset 125€
Index book 20€ each
Warhammer 40.000 book 45€
Tactical Objectives 10€
Command Dice 15€
Sector Imperialis Objectives 25€
Combat Gauge 8€
Wound Trackers 10€

I guess there are 5 index books.
So the June/July will be become expensive.

**wuestenfux**

PossumCraft wrote:
I was of the impression free rules were coming out as per AoS. If not, guess it makes things very simple. Other games have free rules, GW keeps upping prices.

What do you expect. After all, its a gaming company that needs to make (a lot of) money. The supplement books in the 7th ed. were a great success. Pricey, but the players bought them. I think the story will be same in the 8th ed. After the initial books already announced, we will see supplement books for the factions filled with art work, background stories, and additional rules for formations and what not.

**wuestenfux**

xttz wrote:
PossumCraft wrote:
So if rules for factions arent free, but all games require factions..?

Here's your game of battleship. Ships cost extra.

They still haven't confirmed or denied free download unit datasheets, but it would be reeaaaally weird to release free rules that no one can use without unit stats.

Similar to WMH. The rule books for WM and Hordes are free, but to play a unit/model you need the stats given by buying the unit/model or the faction deck (hard copy or digital).

**wuestenfux**

The jetpack Marines look not very agile. Just hanging around until they land.

**wuestenfux**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
Am I correct in my thinking of the following...

The Index books contain the warscrolls and points for the armies.
They have said they will alter points yearly to balance them.
These are temporary combinations of races/factions and eventually each race/faction will get its own codex.

So when they adjust points each year, every index/codex is invalid?
A new codex/index every year for each race/faction you play as the points in the previous one are invalidated?
This seems a far bigger cash grab than any previous edition.

If they were gamer friendly, the warscrolls would be in the books (and in new boxes of models) and the points would be free releases that would only be a few pages long.

I know GW are out for profit, but this sounds like the most gamer unfriendly sales model for any miniature game I've ever seenn

Just wait until they start to release supplementary books with new formations.
The release of such books has been very successful in the current incarnation of the game. What should they stop it.
If you buy the five index books, the Warhammer book, and the starter set, you are almost at 300 Euro.

**wuestenfux**

Alpharius wrote:
WHY are the Plague Marines getting bigger too?

I mean, sure, we know why, just look at Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, etc.

...but still!

Good question. Maybe they want 40k at a larger scale. Maybe they will then adapt the size of the transports and tanks.

**wuestenfux**

Future War Cultist wrote:
I like that space marines have lieutenants now. I always felt like they were missing an important part in the chain of command. Had I had my way, the old space marine command squads would have had lieutenants instead of just sergeants.

In the famous CSM 3.5 edition codex, they had lieutenants. I ran two of them on bikes.

**wuestenfux**

Well, after its clear what books will be released soon, I'd like to ask a stupid question: What's the content of the Warhammer 40k book for 45 Euro?
The rules (which are supposed to be of no charge) or some extension book?

**wuestenfux**

Thanks!

The Free Core Rules are 12 pages long and contain the basics.

So the free part of the edition looks more like a concession to the gamers than anything else.

**wuestenfux**

xttz wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
Still I'll miss challenges

As characters no longer join units, every combat is a challenge!

This new rule sounds rather strange.
How do we hide HQs in an army? It appears that each HQ will need a retinue to be viable.

**wuestenfux**

But.. the datasheets for every unit are gonna be free PDFs too right, so you don't really need the books?

I guess you will need the index books since you will find the pt costs in there.
If the data sheets are free as the warscrolls in AoS, I don't know.

**wuestenfux**

They aren't horridly expensive. You should support your local gaming store and buy the one you need for your army.

Well spoken.
I'll get the 40k book and the index books as far as the armies I play are concerned. Necrons first.

**wuestenfux**

So the index books seem to be crucial for playing a game (using points). I'll approach it slowly.

**wuestenfux**

It will be interesting to see the pt costs of an Interceptor unit compared with normal Assault marines. Placement (Meteoric descent) of 9'' also something has already been introduced - see AoS.

**wuestenfux**

Vida wrote:
Someone told me it was confirmed that Datasheets were NOT free like AoS. I scanned through the thread but didnt see anything. Has anyone else seen/heard anything like this?

Well, the core rule set (12 pages) is free. This has been said several times here.
It has been also said that the datasheets are downloadable. To what extent, we will see.

**wuestenfux**

JohnnyHell wrote:
"Heretic Astartes" is just the new, trademarkable "Chaos Space Marines". I wouldn't get too worked up that units with that tag aren't actually Space Marines but are part of a CSM force.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:
Vida wrote:
Someone told me it was confirmed that Datasheets were NOT free like AoS. I scanned through the thread but didnt see anything. Has anyone else seen/heard anything like this?

Well, the core rule set (12 pages) is free. This has been said several times here.
It has been also said that the datasheets are downloadable. To what extent, we will see.

Where? From the off they talked about paid-for books, which are the Indexes. I've seen nothing official about free sheets, just wishlisting.

Let's put free datasheets on our GW wishlist.
In the mk3 edition of WMH, the ''datasheets'' per faction (incl. pt costs) were about 20 Euro.

**wuestenfux**

Well, with the release of the Primaris Marines I guess that GW will make larger tanks and transports for them which may become standard in the Imperium.