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The Death Guard models in the starter set are stunning. I'm not as sold on the Primaris Marines. I mean, I got zero complaints, but they're a bit less busy than I expected. Very vanilla. It's a good thing, I suppose, as we can all bling them out with tabards and accessories and wings, relics, what not, if we want to.

Sorry if it's been posted (just link me to the thread) but has any points costs been leaked? I'm curious what a squad of Plasma Marines (Primaris) costs, for example, or the standard squad of Plague Marines, or any other major units for comparison, like an Imperial Knight.

Rather important to get an idea what size tournament armies will be.

 Rippy wrote:
What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!

Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?

Thanks.

changemod wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
What a time to be a Death Guard player!
Rules look solid, models look solid, fluff book about DG invading Ultramar, all but confirmed full new plastic kits for everything DG.
I am feeling more disgustingly resilient than when I went to bed last night!!!

Any idea on army construction yet in the 8th edition? So, if you take a Death Guard Battalion detachment, and you get a bunch of stuff and +3 free command points for 6 total. Can you now add another detachment from main Chaos Space Marines rules, or Chaos Daemons, or a Renegade Knight as a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, or whatever, to the army and keep it battle forged/legal? What are the limitations? Are there any? What does battle forged even mean in the 8th edition?

Thanks.

The short version is you can make nearly anything bound and grab a few command points so long as you're prepared to take an HQ tax. There are detachments for mandatory elites, fast attack and heavy support. There are superheavy only detachments. There are flyer only detachments.

If you really want to have no HQ in your army (and aren't taking a pure Lord of War list) then you can just give up all your command points to achieve it.

Thanks guys, but I saw the screenshots about the few basic detachments. What I was most curious about is if you can mix and match between factions, and what the allegiances are like. I mean, the datasheets have that 'keywords' thing going on. So back to the original example of one detachment of Death Guard, can another be from another faction so to speak, for example Chaos Daemons, or super-heavies? Is this still called allying, and who can do that with who? If all things Chaos go together, and all things Imperium go together, what the heck do the Xenos go together with? And so on.

Thanks again.

Thanks to everyone. This new edition is sure looking good. Still can't quite believe it to be true, but I guess I have to. Most of it seems like a dream come true of gamers picking and choosing the coolest thing of each past edition.

I'm sure it'll have flaws, but it seems almost safe to say it's shaping up to be the best large scale game GW has ever made. The whole approach of having the ITC crew involved, and a living rule book that can be rebalanced as we go on is an entirely new era for GW games.

Chaos looks pretty decent, at least when it's quarterbacked by one or two of those Hellforged Leviathans

Are Forgeworld units and dataslates completely 40K legal or are they optional/expansion stuff from a sister company?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Completely legal IF they're from the new FW indexes.

Excellent. The more units and variety in the game, the better. Have all the FW indexes been leaked?

I want that Hellforged Leviathan BAD ^_^ I wonder what it costs in points. 500?

To me it seems like this is a throwback to few editions ago where a Marine or Chaos Marine army could use points efficient shooting units coupled with at least two good assault units in Rhinos, either for counter-assault or getting to the enemy that camps.

And if an army like that actually works, like it used to, instead of 'let's spam formations that give me the most free stuff possible' I'm in awe.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Weird that the Chaos leak pictures showed a "Renegade Knight" page, but there wasn't an entry for it anywhere on the points cost page. I suppose there might be another page with LOW entries on it, given some of the Chaos daemon engines and named Greater Daemons available.

Note it doesn't have the heretic astartes faction keyword, it's likely in an entirely separate section of the book.

It does have the Chaos keyword though, making it usable.

How many attacks do vehicles with * for A get in close combat? Both the Heldrake and Chaos Land Raider dataslates show * for A value but the degrade box doesn't show A anywhere. Is it outside the camera shot?

The stock Heldrake looks awfully strong for me. T7 12 wounds, 3+ save, 5+ invulnerable, flies, shoots, fights in close combat and does D3 wounds per hit. For 138 points. And it heals one wound automatically at the start of every turn. It means that each T7 3+/5+ wound costs about 10 points each if you assume it heals even once. Sounds pretty efficient to me, even with multiwound guns all over the place.

Like, for comparison, the LR is T8 16 wounds with no invulnerable and no healing and costs about three times as much kitted up. It does have that 2+ save though, and carries some dudes.

 jamopower wrote:

 Therion wrote:
How many attacks do vehicles with * for A get in close combat? Both the Heldrake and Chaos Land Raider dataslates show * for A value but the degrade box doesn't show A anywhere. Is it outside the camera shot?

The stock Heldrake looks awfully strong for me. T7 12 wounds, 3+ save, 5+ invulnerable, flies, shoots, fights in close combat and does D3 wounds per hit. For 138 points. And it heals one wound automatically at the start of every turn.

Like, for comparison, the LR is T8 16 wounds with no invulnerable and no healing and costs about three times as much kitted up. It does have that 2+ save though, and carries some dudes.

I guess the heldrake will have to pay for its weapons as well, increasing the cost.

You're right, but I don't think the 'claws' cost anything and the stock autocannon probably doesn't cost much if anything at all.

Caederes wrote:

Therion wrote:How many attacks do vehicles with * for A get in close combat? Both the Heldrake and Chaos Land Raider dataslates show * for A value but the degrade box doesn't show A anywhere. Is it outside the camera shot?

The stock Heldrake looks awfully strong for me. T7 12 wounds, 3+ save, 5+ invulnerable, flies, shoots, fights in close combat and does D3 wounds per hit. For 138 points. And it heals one wound automatically at the start of every turn.

Like, for comparison, the LR is T8 16 wounds with no invulnerable and no healing and costs about three times as much kitted up. It does have that 2+ save though, and carries some dudes.

The 138 doesn't include its wargear which you have to pay for. From what I saw the Hades Autocannon is pretty iffy as it will need 5s to-hit if you move and shoot with it, and the Baleflamer is now only D6 hits. Basically, its ranged damage output went kaput but it can do quite a bit of damage in melee...which makes complete sense, it's now an actual mechanical dragon.

It's a mechanical Dragon that moves 30" per turn and assaults? Doesn't sound that bad if it can fight and brings a ton of points efficient wounds. The gun is irrelevant. Oh you have those special dudes hiding at the backlines? Yeah the Dragons get you.

Caederes wrote:

 Therion wrote:

Caederes wrote:

Therion wrote:How many attacks do vehicles with * for A get in close combat? Both the Heldrake and Chaos Land Raider dataslates show * for A value but the degrade box doesn't show A anywhere. Is it outside the camera shot?

The stock Heldrake looks awfully strong for me. T7 12 wounds, 3+ save, 5+ invulnerable, flies, shoots, fights in close combat and does D3 wounds per hit. For 138 points. And it heals one wound automatically at the start of every turn.

Like, for comparison, the LR is T8 16 wounds with no invulnerable and no healing and costs about three times as much kitted up. It does have that 2+ save though, and carries some dudes.

The 138 doesn't include its wargear which you have to pay for. From what I saw the Hades Autocannon is pretty iffy as it will need 5s to-hit if you move and shoot with it, and the Baleflamer is now only D6 hits. Basically, its ranged damage output went kaput but it can do quite a bit of damage in melee...which makes complete sense, it's now an actual mechanical dragon.

It's a mechanical Dragon that moves 30" per turn and assaults? Doesn't sound that bad if it can fight and brings a ton of points efficient wounds. The gun is irrelevant. Oh you have those special dudes hiding at the backlines? Yeah the Dragons get you.

In what way was I implying it isn't a good unit?
I'm just saying that it's not quite as cheap as it looks to be.

I didn't mean that you did. Sorry for the confusion. I'm just saying, it seems awfully strong at least on surface level. People will probably do a ton of analysis, math based and otherwise, in the coming months to discover where the cheese is. I'm just now looking at what high toughness good save wounds cost in general. And if you can get T7 3+/5++ wounds that fly and fight pretty damn well for a bit over 10 points a pop, you'll probably see quite a few of those ^_^ Unless that's what the going rate for monstrous wounds is, but then what would be the point of one wound elite guys that cost 25 points a pop or even up to 50 points per wound?

rvd1ofakind wrote:
I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(

Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake

I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.

Tolp wrote:

 Therion wrote:

rvd1ofakind wrote:
I just want Daemons to be able to use Heldrakes in their detachment. Since I accidentally ordered Heldrakes and then saw I can't use them without CSM or KDK :(

Backstory: I asked "good anti-air for Daemons" and pretty much everyone said Heldrake

I'm not seeing the problem? As far as I understand, you build your army from multiple detachments. Just take one from Daemons and another that allows a bunch of fast attack (Heldrakes) for the smallest additional unit tax as possible. The Outrider detachment lets you take 6 Heldrakes and you only have to take one HQ to accompany them. I'm sure you can find something useful.

Poor advice as Heldrake isn´t Fast Attack. (It´s a flyer so you can take a detachment of them without any taxes).

It wasn't advice. I've seen about 10% of the leaks so I'm not sure what's what. I just wasn't seeing the problem since as far as I understood he was worried he can't use them. I still don't see the problem, by the way. Thanks for stopping by though.

tneva82 wrote:
I would be more hyped about quaranteed T1 charge on anywhere.

Anyway is the 138 before or after guns are added?

I presume it's before weapons, but the thing doesn't have that many weapons and the stock one is pretty meh so I guess it'll stay really cheap.

rvd1ofakind wrote:


The problem is that I only have 2 Heldrakes and you need 3 flyers for the formation.

Allright mate I see now. I missed the fact that the detachments actually say 0-2 flyers, etc.

Is it legal to play with just Air Wing detachments? For all your points? I guess so.

So, based on where we are now, what kind of armies are we expecting to see? The detachments allow for all super-heavy, all-flyer, all-vehicle, all-monster, all-horde, whatever lists really. Are we entering an era where a tournament army is just 12 vehicles and no infantry whatsoever, or do you guys think there's something in the rules that we're missing that will force everyone to go balanced between infantry and big gribblies?

And I know Knight armies existed before, but a lot of people, especially casuals, hated them, and they were mostly the exception, not the norm.

Personally, I don't mind if an army consists of 10 superfriends, or 10 vehicles, or 200 infantry models, but if there's that big differences in style then the balance has to be near perfect for everyone to enjoy the games.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Vryce wrote:


Man, I can not wait to have this in my hands. I got my pre-order in w/ my FLGS today and now it feels more real than ever. My friends and I have been discussing this, and we all agree that we haven't been this excited for a new edition ever.

Me too!

How many editions have you been playing?

I loved 2nd, hated 3rd, liked 4th and 5th, and 6th and 7th drove me out of 40K.

So, I'm...cautiously optimistic for 8th, as it looks like an...OK combo of 2nd and 3rd?

If that makes sense?

I'm REALLY looking forward to the new Primaris models though!

I think your edition history is true for many of us greybeards. Rogue trader was getting into the 40K universe background and gawking at miniatures, 2nd edition was great fun times, 3rd was a change to the worse, 4th was when the tourney scene boomed and the game was big, 5th is when it got worse and 6th and 7th were utter garbage, and 8th is when we hope for the golden days to return again. Probably a fool's hope, but it's been a roller coaster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luciferian wrote:
Ork points values:

http://imgur.com/a/zjUs2

Stompa 900. Plus weapons? GG.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Vryce wrote:


Man, I can not wait to have this in my hands. I got my pre-order in w/ my FLGS today and now it feels more real than ever. My friends and I have been discussing this, and we all agree that we haven't been this excited for a new edition ever.

Me too!

How many editions have you been playing?

I loved 2nd, hated 3rd, liked 4th and 5th, and 6th and 7th drove me out of 40K.

So, I'm...cautiously optimistic for 8th, as it looks like an...OK combo of 2nd and 3rd?

If that makes sense?

I'm REALLY looking forward to the new Primaris models though!

I think your edition history is true for many of us greybeards. Rogue trader was getting into the 40K universe background and gawking at miniatures, 2nd edition was great fun times, 3rd was a change to the worse, 4th was when the tourney scene boomed and the game was big, 5th is when it got worse and 6th and 7th were utter garbage, and 8th is when we hope for the golden days to return again. Probably a fool's hope, but it's been a roller coaster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luciferian wrote:
Ork points values:

http://imgur.com/a/zjUs2

Stompa 900. Plus weapons? GG.

Stompa with supa gatler, 5 big shootas, and deffkannon is 958. Plus whatever the mega choppa costs.

But 40 wounds,..still kinda worth it.

I wonder how that points per wound cost compares to Imperial Knights or Warhound Titans, or in smaller scale the Leviathan Dreadnoughts.

It's pretty annoying to have to wait for all of these books to be released so we can get a complete picture

Upon some inspection, Magnus the Red seems crazy powerful. 415 points isn't that much compared to the vehicle and monster prices around. It's quite a bit cheaper than a kitted out Wraithknight, even.

Yet, he has a 4+ invulnerable save, T7 18 wounds, utterly recks face in close combat with his sword (S16 AP-4 D3 and 7 attacks boys and can create Chaos Spawns), and casts a ton of spells, including moving himself twice every turn. Even his smite has the potential to do 2D6 mortal wounds every turn, which is pretty insane, is it not, especially considering he gets bonuses for manifesting and denying spells.

I like him at least ^_^ Dude that moves 16" TWICE per turn and demolishes nearly anyone he touches in CC has to be one of the best beatsticks so far.

I'm not sure if his re-roll buff bubble applies to himself. If it does, he's even better. I guess he's a friendly Thousand Son unit.

I'm wondering what the keyword <Legion> means. It says, for example: Keywords: Heretic Astartes, <Legion>

Does that mean you can affiliate it with one Legion yourself? Or is <Legion> a keyword on its own that all Legions have something in common?

I'm just wondering as a follow-up to Magnus the Red's rules, as he buffs Thousand Sons units with re-rolls. A lot of the Chaos units, even vehicles or monsters, have the keyword <Legion> in them. If you can just make them Thousand Sons you get more out of the re-rolls naturally.

rvd1ofakind wrote:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
@ casvalremdeikun the damage rolls of 1 or 2 counting as a 3 is plain nasty on the neutron laser.

Onagers looks INSANE. They pretty much left icarus as is but pretty much removed the huge penalty for shooting at non-flying.
And Neutron is just... just... *barfs rainbows*

Onagers are pretty tough too point by point. Quickly looking the Neutron setup it still costs under 150 points, yet brings 11 T7 wounds and an invulnerable save together with the heavy guns.

 Flood wrote:
Xenos 1 in full

http://imgur.com/a/XNwSg

Do you have the Chaos one uploaded somewhere? I'd like to take a look at all the basic stuff that hasn't been hyped much about.

Semper wrote:
Having read the rules I am utterly shocked at how bland everything has turned out, which is a sincere shame considering I was filled with such initial hope at the basic rules.

This index release is the 'Ravening Hordes' release that guarantees all models are playable. It's a lot better than I imagined in fact, so we have very different expectations. I expected four page pamphlets with stat lines and no special rules whatsoever, and a flat statement of 'Wait for the codex'.

Now, we have very playable rules, and we'll wait for the codex books to flesh the individual armies out with fancy stuff.

Lastly, I'm curious what you mean by Chaos getting neutered? Wasn't Chaos largely a trash army in 8th edition, as far as competitive was concerned? Now it seems a lot of their units seem very good.

Iago40k wrote:
I am so happy to see dumbass Eldar: Craftworlds being finally toned down to a normal degree. Well done GW, well done.

The tournament circuit is saved, at least until a new Codex: Craftworlds is released =)

 Flood wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Flood wrote:
Xenos 1 in full

http://imgur.com/a/XNwSg

Do you have the Chaos one uploaded somewhere? I'd like to take a look at all the basic stuff that hasn't been hyped much about.

Still uploading but;

http://imgur.com/a/A9lGq

Thanks man! Now I can't help but think about an army with Magnus flying 32" to the enemy and then having a 50 Chaos Terminators teleport next to him turn one. Magnus destroys one unit by himself, and everything re-rolls 1's to hit and failed 1's on their invulnerable saves.

The Terminator teleport strike rule is insanely good, is it not? I'm so used to the idea of reserves entering the play randomly and then scattering, that the fact that they can enter play at the end of ANY movement phase, and will not scatter, sounds just insane.

So they deploy wherever they want, right when you want. Easiest alpha strike ever. And they don't seem to pay that much for their free ride, considering their stats.

Spearhead detachment of Magnus + 18 "Thousand Sons Obliterators" for good times and noodle salad for bargain basement price of 1585 points

Fill the rest of the points up with some anti-horde stuff ^_^

 Crazyterran wrote:
Is Magnus not a Lord of War? Guilliman is.

Good point ^_^ But you also solved where some of the extra points will go, into the mandatory HQ ^_^ For example a Sorcerer in Terminator armour for more teleporting goodness.