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 Leth wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
10 Ratlings drop a commissar/commander a turn for 70pts.

10 shoots
6.66 hits
1 mortal
4.44 wounds
2.22 get through

That i just over 3 wounds. Not seeing a reliable drop of a character from that.

Three unsaved wounds will kill an ordinary commissar or platoon commander. A lucky fourth wound would finish off a lord commissar or company commander.

I have played three games using 2000 points. My initial impression is that IG artillery is too good for the points cost. I have enjoyed using Wyverns, Basilisks, and Manticores with a Master of Ordnance. The Basilisk is fair but the others are beat sticks.

 necron99 wrote:
So what's everyone's opinion on wyverns? I own three and would hate to see them start collecting dust

Wyverns are very good in 8th edition. I use three of them plus two Manticores and a Master of Ordnance. They kill everything. Most of the rest of my army is just there to keep the enemy away from my artillery.

I put the MoO with the Manticores. The Wyverns have so many possible attacks (4D6) and get to reroll wounds so they do not need the MoO buff.

My artillery has killed Land Raiders, multiple squads of terminators, and AM tanks and artillery. Abaddon has learned to fear Wyverns.

The 36" MoO limit hasn't been a problem in my three games. My hordes of infantry have kept the enemy far enough away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I played a couple games using three Basilisks but they seem a little less effective than massed Wyverns and Manticores. Admittedly, I haven't had to play past Turn 4 when the Manticores run out of rockets.

 tankboy145 wrote:
I'm uncertain if pask can issue orders to himself as well. Because under the "knight commander" ability it states the can issues orders to "other" cadian leman russ characters. I understand his profile both has leman russ and characters but it didn't say he could order himself.

The answer seems very simple. Yes, he can issue orders to his own tank. The logic is RAW in his Tanks Orders rule. His unit is Cadian, it is a Leman Russ [Keyword], and the tank is within six inches of Pask. He has no rule that prevents him from issuing orders to himself or to Cadian LR characters. The Knight Commander rule says that he "can" issue orders to other Cadian Leman Russ characters but it does not say that he cannot issue an order to himself.

Doctoralex wrote:

As you can see the difference isn't extreme. However, given how expandable Astropaths are and them having a nice boon if giving Ignore Cover to nearby units gives them my preference.
The fact that they are so expandable also means you can set one up (pretty much on a suicide mission) for a nice Gaze of the Emperor.
Laugh as your opponent forgot to spread out his men to the ONLY THING IN THE GAME WHERE YOU STILL DO IT, MUHAHAHAHA.

What do you guys think?

I agree with your main point that Astropaths are a better option than Primaris but I don't think the Gaze of the Emperor is quite as good as you think it is. The 2D6 inches is fairly random and you have to avoid your own units. Then it only has a 50% chance of causing a mortal wound per enemy unit under the 2D6 line.

Doctoralex wrote:

 JB wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:

As you can see the difference isn't extreme. However, given how expandable Astropaths are and them having a nice boon if giving Ignore Cover to nearby units gives them my preference.
The fact that they are so expandable also means you can set one up (pretty much on a suicide mission) for a nice Gaze of the Emperor.
Laugh as your opponent forgot to spread out his men to the ONLY THING IN THE GAME WHERE YOU STILL DO IT, MUHAHAHAHA.

What do you guys think?

I agree with your main point that Astropaths are a better option than Primaris but I don't think the Gaze of the Emperor is quite as good as you think it is. The 2D6 inches is fairly random and you have to avoid your own units. Then it only has a 50% chance of causing a mortal wound per enemy unit under the 2D6 line.

True, but that's why you throw a sacrifical Astropath to an enemy blob.

On average Emperor's Gaze will be 7". You have to be more than an inch away, but let's say that you create a line of 6" to cover a blob.

You can easily get 10+ models under the beam, meaning you will on average kill 5 of them, meaning the Astropath has already well made up it's cost even if it's just Hormagaunts or Boyz.

Keep in mind that you can move + advance and then still cast psychic abilities, to help get you as close as possible and cover as many models as possible with the beam.

Heck, even if you get four terminators covered in it. You will take down one termi, well worth it!

Emperor's Gaze is also a lot easier to cast (6 or higher, 59,3%) compared to the Astropath's 33% for Smite.
And bonus points if you Perils with double 6 and blow yourself up, taking even more guys with you

EDIT: NVM, you are right.

Yes, I just reread it. I was wrong.

EDIT: And now you have me thinking of adding a few more astropaths since all five available psyker powers have some utility. While I cannot use the same power twice, other than Smite, in each turn, I can find a good use for Pyschic Barrier every turn and the others will likely be useful against any army that likes to assault. May not be so useful versus other gunline armies due to the short range of the powers.

I will try using just two astropaths in a 2000 point list. I have been using one and he only cast Smite over and over again. I should have used him to cast Psychic Barrier on Pask's tank, whenever a target was not available for Smite.

EDIT: I only have six games of 8th edition so far and my local meta is not using many psykers yet.

Several posts have mentioned using Leman Russ tanks with heavy flamers to advance into the enemy deployment zone. It is a risky tactic because opponents will try to lock the tanks in close combat. If your heavy flamers don't kill all of the attackers in Overwatch, your tanks may not be able to fire for the rest of the game (as long as they are locked in combat and during your first shooting phase after a Fall Back move). Smart opponents will try to get their charging models into contact on multiple sides of your vehicle so that you will not be able to Fall Back. In 8E, the enemy does not have to charge the closest point on the target unit. His first model charging just has to get within 1 inch of the target by the end of his charge move. The other models in the unit only have to maintain coherency.

The key point is to support your tanks with other units to keep chargers away or at least prevent them from locking your tanks into combat for multiple turns.

And before someone mentions it, the normal AM orders do not work on vehicles so Get Back in the Fight is not going to help your vehicles to fire after a Fall Back move.

I agree with your comments about Pask. I used him for six games in a Plasma Executioner + PC with hull lascannon and he was OK but I avoided supercharging. Now I am using him in a Punisher + MM + hull lascannon as a gunline tank. Oddly enough, he survives about half the battles because the enemy gets totally distracted by infantry squads and scions.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Regular scion squads hits no where as hard as a CS with 2 less special weapons and not very cost effective for suicide drop purposes. Still better than nothing lol

Why do you say that a regular scion squad has 2 less special weapons than a scion command squad? They can both take four.

 Aaranis wrote:
What's the thoughts about Primaris Psykers ? For 40 pts, having a Psyker with 2 powers looks good. And, as Sisters of Silence no longer hinder your own Psykers I'm considering adding one or two in my army. Wyrdvane Psykers look awful (and their models, ugh) and the Astropath looks like a very specific support, maybe to help some Snipers ? I already have a 7 points Omnispex to negate Cover.

I like using one astropath to buff the saving throw for Pask so that his tank gets a 2+ save.

Bluthusten wrote:
For my Catachans ill go lot of 5-man scions for the Guerilla-war feeling.

A Rambo-Scratchbuild Eversor fits perfect.

You are a genius! That is a great way to being back Sly Marbo.

I just use eight infantry squads and no veterans. I don't even use HWTs or special weapons in the squads. I have two commissars and three commanders to lead those squads. They kill some enemy with their flashlights and the orders are very useful, especially Get Back in the Fight and FRFSRF. My real killers though are DS Scions, artillery, a pair of Hellhounds, and KC Pask. The infantry just has to keep the enemy away from my killers and also disrupt the enemy's attack plan.

I started 8th Edition with him in a Plasma Executioner with a hull lascannon and plasma cannon sponsons. After six games, I switched to a Punisher with heavy bolter sponsons and kept the hull lascannon.

He kicks arse against armies that assault my lines and is still useful against enemy gunlines but you have to be more careful where you put him. One of the advantages of having more unit drops than my opponents is that I can put Pask down after I see where all of my opponent's units are placed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daedalus wrote:

 JB wrote:
I just use eight infantry squads and no veterans. I don't even use HWTs or special weapons in the squads. I have two commissars and three commanders to lead those squads. They kill some enemy with their flashlights and the orders are very useful, especially Get Back in the Fight and FRFSRF. My real killers though are DS Scions, artillery, a pair of Hellhounds, and KC Pask. The infantry just has to keep the enemy away from my killers and also disrupt the enemy's attack plan.

I do something similar, except I use four with plasmas. Almost the exact same tactic though. Worked really well against GK. Hard to take out tanks when you have to waste a round clearing out their ablative armor first.

I sometimes mix in some plasma guns in the squads that are furthest from the enemy if I have any extra points. I have a multilaser scout sentinel that is only in the list as part of the FA tax for a brigade detachment. Six plasma guns would be a better use of points.

In five games, no opponent has killed all of my infantry squads. I won all five games and tabled the enemy army in four of them. I also tried three games using several tanks, less artillery (only three bassies), no scions, and five veteran squads with plasma guns and lascannons instead of pure lasgun infantry squads. Those games were less successful. I still won two of three games but I had a far more difficult time.

I have only played one kill point scenario and all of my games were matched play with either 1000 or 2000 points. In the smaller games, I only used six infantry squads. My favorite artillery mix is three Wyverns with two Manticores.



This battle was versus Blood Angels. I messed up my point count and faced his 2000 points of mostly Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, and Dante with only 1792 points of imperial guard. I still tabled him in four turns because he hit my line in three waves: Death Company with Lemartes on turn two, Sanguinary Guard with an Ancient on turn three, and a Furioso Deadnought on turn four. Dante was shot down as the last model on turn four without ever entering the fight because he turned back to his deployment zone to face my scions that had wiped out two squads of objective guarding scouts.

I use my three Griffons as Wyverns. They wreck enemy infantry. The Wyvern is also artillery and uses a Chimera chassis like the Griffon.

I put an enginseer next to Pask to heal his Punisher. I use HB sponsons and a hull lascannon. He doesn't get shot up much since I run two Hellhounds and five artillery vehicles along with a lot of infantry and Scions. My enemies get overwhelmed by so many targets that are threatening.


Edit to remove double post.

 Desubot wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Do LR block LoS to other LR. Could you "hide" Pask behind two LR for turn 1 at least (I'm assuming I'm going second) ?

The second there is any high ground that some one can park a lascannon on the tactic wont work.

but it certainly does work if you are playing only on ground level.

It doesn't work in 8th because Pask is higher than the silhouette of the tanks in front of him. The enemy can simply aim at Pask.

Lots of IG Cadian infantry works well in my local meta. I run nine infantry squads with no upgrades, two commissars, and four company commanders. Together with my two hellhounds and a scout sentinel, they are great for keeping the enemy a good distance away. The enemy is never able to bring reinforcements into my backfield in Matched Play. As noted by others, the drawback is game length and another issue is storing and transporting all of the models. I use Ironheart Artisan movement trays and pack my entire army in one battlefoam cardboard storage box with three foam trays.

The rest of the army is a Pask Plasma Executioner, three Leman Russ battle tanks, two Wyverns, a Primaris, a sniper SWS, and a Spearhead detachment with Ordos Hereticus inquisitors, acolytes, and Jokero.

I also use orders on Mod Cubes, IG cards, and lots of groups of small dice to speed play.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Not much has changed for me. Still going to run pask. Just with 2 tank commanders as well. With the shadowsword.

Three character tanks? Do you have any regular Leman Russ tanks in the list so that you can give tank orders?

Alpharius Walks wrote:

Gnollu wrote:
AFAIK it was faqed but I cant find this.

Pask was prohibited from ordering himself in the original FAQ for the Index. As the wording of the rule has been changed and there is a Codex the current Index FAQ has removed that question completely.

Thanks, this is great news!

The FAQ that said that Pask and Tank Commanders cannot order themselves began in Imperium Index 2 FAQ 1.1 and continued in FAQ 1.2. It was removed from FAQ 1.3.

As stated by others, there was never a limitation in the Codex or its FAQs, v1.0 and 1.1.

Time to make the enemy pay dearly. Make the salty tears flow, lads!

 Afrika wrote:
I just came back from playing mostly 4th edition and some 5th. What's up with the cost of Chimeras and where are their special rules? 55 points to around 93 with weapons, I couldn't believe my eyes. Are they worth their points? I was thinking of using one as a Bullgryn limo.

I have not found a worthwhile use for a Chimera in this game. They cost too many points (93 for the cheapest version) and IG can make better use of those points elsewhere. When your Chimera is destroyed, you have to roll a D6 for each passenger. For each roll of 1, a model is slain. That is very bad for high wound, high cost models with a 3+ Invulnerable Save. Their toughness, armor, number of wounds, and invuln saves are useless in that situation.

 Colonel Cross wrote:

My CC warlord had Laurels of Command with the Cadian trait. That was freaking brutal. I merged 2 infantry squads with heavy Bolters and Plasma guns then put Nightshroud on them. They proceeded to use Take Aim AND Bring It Down on every turn. It was hilarious. The mortars got the same thing every turn, too. Absolutely brutal in such a small game.

You should read the wording more carefully on Voice of Command. Your units may only receive one order per turn. You still would have crushed your opponent but maybe not as quickly.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JB wrote:

 Colonel Cross wrote:

My CC warlord had Laurels of Command with the Cadian trait. That was freaking brutal. I merged 2 infantry squads with heavy Bolters and Plasma guns then put Nightshroud on them. They proceeded to use Take Aim AND Bring It Down on every turn. It was hilarious. The mortars got the same thing every turn, too. Absolutely brutal in such a small game.

You should read the wording more carefully on Voice of Command. Your units may only receive one order per turn. You still would have crushed your opponent but maybe not as quickly.

The laurels of command is a relic that lets you give multiple orders to a single unit.

Yes, but he double-dipped on two units: the blob squad and the mortar squad.

 Colonel Cross wrote:
Company commanders can issue 2 orders per turn. Each time the Laurels of Command get rolled for. The superior tactical training ALSO triggers laurels of command. It's in the latest FAQ.

Wow, I didn't pay much attention to that part of the new FAQ since I use Old Grudges as my Warlord trait and the Relic of Lost Cadia as my relic. Your example may lead me to add Laurels of Command as a second relic and maybe use the Cadian Warlord trait whenever my opponent doesn't have a LoW, Imperial Knight, or Monster.

My warlord sits in a cluster of mortar squads so adding Bring It Down to the Take Aim orders, that I currently use, would be sweet.

tag8833 wrote:
So Hydras are pretty amazing. Took one to an event yesterday. It was my top damage dealer by far. Feels like nearly every army has something that flies.

What is the best regiment for Hydras? I ran Cadian, and thanks to the extra CP from Battallions, I used the Cadian Strategem a couple times. Hitting on 2's with 8 Autocannons is pretty intense.

I think most IG players choose to take other units instead of paying 108 points for a Hydra. I take one sometimes because my area is full of armies that use units with the Fly keyword. Cadian is best for Hydras. The Overlapping Fires stratagem and Born Soldiers regimental trait are fantastic together, as you experienced in your event. I tend not to take a Hydra versus IG, AdMech, and some Nurgle players because they rarely use flyers. There is one Death Guard guy though that fields Morty and Plague Drones.

Creed cannot take relics and neither can Pask. The codex specifically states,"Named characters such as Lord Castellan Creed already have one or more artefacts, and cannot be given any of the following relics."

Edit: Page 2 of the codex FAQ says that only characters that have the INFANTRY and OFFICER keywords can take the dagger. Given the restriction on named characters, you can give the dagger to a Company Commander, a Tempestor Prime, or a Platoon Commander.

Does the new Steel Behemoth rule apply to the Minotaur? The Imperial Armour FAQ lists the tanks for the Steel Behemoth change and the Minotaur is not listed among them. It seems to apply only to the tanks on pages 30-39.


Edit: Thanks for reminding me that I need to order the Imperial Armour Index for the Forces of the Imperial Guard.