Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

shank911 wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Thought some may be interested in this piece I found about Conscripts. I would never go to the extreme of an all conscript army, although I was thinking about 100 to be a nice manpower force. Temped to build some movement trays for them and march them forward Chenkov style.

Spoiler:

Wouldn't snipers be the downfall of this technique since they could shoot the commander out and commissar?

Once you do the math on snipers it takes quite a few to reliably drop a character in one shooting phase.

10 Ratlings drop a commissar/commander a turn for 70pts.

Since we are already talking about snipers:

10 Ratlings vs Vindicare Assassin?

Snipers aren't terribly difficult to over come, a few over sized banners and Cadian flags would do the trick. If you can't see the model, you can't shoot it.

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
10 Ratlings drop a commissar/commander a turn for 70pts.

10 shoots
6.66 hits
1 mortal
4.44 wounds
2.22 get through

That i just over 3 wounds. Not seeing a reliable drop of a character from that.

 Leth wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
10 Ratlings drop a commissar/commander a turn for 70pts.

10 shoots
6.66 hits
1 mortal
4.44 wounds
2.22 get through

That i just over 3 wounds. Not seeing a reliable drop of a character from that.

First off both commissars and commanders have only a 5+ armor, so 3.33 + 1 mortal wound get through, which will drop either in a single turn. Even if in cover, the commissars are only 3 wounds, and so are reliably dropped, and they are what really holds conscripts together.

 Leth wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
10 Ratlings drop a commissar/commander a turn for 70pts.

10 shoots
6.66 hits
1 mortal
4.44 wounds
2.22 get through

That i just over 3 wounds. Not seeing a reliable drop of a character from that.

Three unsaved wounds will kill an ordinary commissar or platoon commander. A lucky fourth wound would finish off a lord commissar or company commander.

 JB wrote:

Three unsaved wounds will kill an ordinary commissar or platoon commander. A lucky fourth wound would finish off a lord commissar or company commander.

At least they both have a 5++, so it's has to be very lucky indeed.

20 ratlings using shoot and scamper to stay out of LOS.
10 hits
1.66 mortal wounds
5 regular wounds
3.33 unsaved wounds against IG characters, 2.5 agaist eldar psykers

Not bad

Lord Commissars get 4+, so they're a little harder to kill, but definitely still don't want to get shot.

Biophysical wrote:
Lord Commissars get 4+, so they're a little harder to kill, but definitely still don't want to get shot.

They are also nearly twice the cost of a non-aristocratic commissar, so...

Lord Comissars are also infinitely cooler and better at fighting.

I know what I'm fielding.

 schadenfreude wrote:
20 ratlings using shoot and scamper to stay out of LOS.
10 hits
1.66 mortal wounds
5 regular wounds
3.33 unsaved wounds against IG characters, 2.5 agaist eldar psykers

Not bad

If you try to use ssas like jsj, then you are taking the -1 to move with a heavy weapon.

Also, Ratlings will die to pretty much any fire. A couple of mortar squads would make short work of them.

You get to set up ratlings after mortars are set up, though, so this can be mitigated to an extent. And it would still take 2-3 turns of shooting with the mortars to wipe a squad of 10, depending on your luck. Ratlings will likely make their points back in dead characters by then.

Deepstriking Scion command squad with 2 volley guns has about the same damage output, costs 2 points more, can be positioned more accurately, and have a reasonable chance of making a charge and tying up the snipers in melee after shooting them up.

Ratlings are certainly fragile, but they are cheap and effective at what they do for what they cost.

I think we are going to see plenty of indirect fire weapons making a comeback, thunderfire cannons, mortars, whirlwinds, etc.

They are pretty good in general and have a solid damage output.

I cant find what platoon standards do, did I miss it somewhere? I see regimental standards, +1 leadership. Platoon standard is also 5 pts but cant find the rules.

 lash92 wrote:
Since we are already talking about snipers:

10 Ratlings vs Vindicare Assassin?

The vindicare has an advantage in survivability and range. Because it is a character it can only be targeted by counter snipers (which it may outrange) unless it is the closest unit.

A good artillery strike, like from a wyrven or HWS will seriously hurt ratlings. A wyrven will do an average of 3.39 wounds to a group of ratlings in cover. Doesn't seem bad except in the morale phase they will, on average, lose 5 more due to morale (they are LD 5). The wyrven can't even target the vindicare unless it is closest enemy unit. And even if it could, it will do an average of 1.15 wounds.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
I cant find what platoon standards do, did I miss it somewhere? I see regimental standards, +1 leadership. Platoon standard is also 5 pts but cant find the rules.

Platoon standards are just the version for Scion command squads. There is no longer a difference between ccs/pcs, or the different banners they had, it is all just the regimental standard and normal command squad.

I have played three games using 2000 points. My initial impression is that IG artillery is too good for the points cost. I have enjoyed using Wyverns, Basilisks, and Manticores with a Master of Ordnance. The Basilisk is fair but the others are beat sticks.

I am going to check on using another superheavy company in a game today. The last two games with it have been super duper badwrongfun for the opponent, since the Baneblades basically drove in a straight line forwards until everything was dead, so they may not want to play them and I won't force them too.

Might get something done with stormswords, or might play something else entirely.

Lendys wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
Since we are already talking about snipers:

10 Ratlings vs Vindicare Assassin?

The vindicare has an advantage in survivability and range. Because it is a character it can only be targeted by counter snipers (which it may outrange) unless it is the closest unit.

A good artillery strike, like from a wyrven or HWS will seriously hurt ratlings. A wyrven will do an average of 3.39 wounds to a group of ratlings in cover. Doesn't seem bad except in the morale phase they will, on average, lose 5 more due to morale (they are LD 5). The wyrven can't even target the vindicare unless it is closest enemy unit. And even if it could, it will do an average of 1.15 wounds.

Good points.
Plus the Vindicare has imo the far cooler model.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I am going to check on using another superheavy company in a game today. The last two games with it have been super duper badwrongfun for the opponent, since the Baneblades basically drove in a straight line forwards until everything was dead, so they may not want to play them and I won't force them too.

Might get something done with stormswords, or might play something else entirely.

Does the Baneblade have a Inv save?

Razerous wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I am going to check on using another superheavy company in a game today. The last two games with it have been super duper badwrongfun for the opponent, since the Baneblades basically drove in a straight line forwards until everything was dead, so they may not want to play them and I won't force them too.

Might get something done with stormswords, or might play something else entirely.

Does the Baneblade have a Inv save?

Don't think any of the super heavy tanks for AM do

me and my friends can find anything that says otherwise....but does the baneblade still suffer -1 to hit with special weapons?

Wish you could put Pask in a baneblade haha

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
me and my friends can find anything that says otherwise....but does the baneblade still suffer -1 to hit with special weapons?

Yeah, -1 to hit with heavy weapons.

 Trickstick wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
me and my friends can find anything that says otherwise....but does the baneblade still suffer -1 to hit with special weapons?

Yeah, -1 to hit with heavy weapons.

Why.. can only think of the Titanic keyword?

So what's everyone's opinion on wyverns? I own three and would hate to see them start collecting dust

Razerous wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
me and my friends can find anything that says otherwise....but does the baneblade still suffer -1 to hit with special weapons?

Yeah, -1 to hit with heavy weapons.

Why.. can only think of the Titanic keyword?

Everything in the game gets -1 to hit with heavy weapons whilst moving, unless they have a rule on their datasheet that removes it. A lot of people are going to forget that things like fliers shoot most guns at -1. Most superheavies, like the knight, have a rule that stops the -1. However, the baneblades have a rule that lets them shoot in combat and after retreating, but nothing about the -1.

The "while moving" part is also important. Specifically, it only applies if you moved in the movement phase. Just another reason why a Baneblade generally wants to be in combat in 8th: if you're locked in melee you're not moving, the pile-in move doesn't count because that's part of the fight phase. So a Baneblade can happily sit in melee, getting 9 attacks in the fight phase on top of being able to shoot all of its weapons at full BS because it's considered to be not moving.