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Can someone explain how damage works in this 8th edition system?

It's the same wound system as before still? Just say I shot once with a damage 3 weapon, you get your armour save against that one shot and if you failed you would take 3 damage. Now if you had feel no pain I think you get that save on all the damage instead of the initial shot.

We can't say for certain yet, but given the ample evidence, you do the following:

#1 - Roll to hit with the weapon.
#2 - Roll to wound with the weapon.
#3 - Roll to save the wound.
#4 - Suffer the number of wounds indicated.

As such, a D6 weapon with D6 wounds caused would roll the D6, get the number of shots (let's say 1), then rolls to hit (let's say it hits), then rolls to wound (let's say it wounds), then the wounded model attempts to make its save (let's say it fails). You'd then roll a D6 for how many wounds it loses. If it has something like Feel No Pain (such as the recently previewed "Disgusting Resilience"), at this point you'd roll to ignore each wound lost.

From the looks of things, it goes:

Roll to wound -> Roll Saving Throws -> Roll Damage -> Roll FNP equivalent for each point of damage sustained by the attack if the unit has it.

So for example, a Tyranid Warrior in cover with Catalyst is hit and wounded by a Lascannon. First it would roll its armor save (Starting at a 4+, adding +1 for cover and subtracting 3 due to the Lascannon's AP-3, so a 6+). Then the Lascannon would roll for damage (D6, so we'll say 3 wounds) and then the Warrior would roll a die for each wound sustained by the attack and negate one for each 5+ rolled thanks to Catalyst.

Most units from the sounds of things will not have access to the new not-FNP, so for most the steps will end after the weapon rolls damage and applies it.

Lets say you fire a battle cannon (dmg D3) at some Tyranid warriors (W3), hitting and wounding twice.
Then they get their 4+ save modified to 6+ by Ap2 of the cannon (4+2=6). Lets say both get through.

Now you roll 2d3 for damage.
If you roll 3+3 (5+ on both d6) two warriors die.
If you roll anything else one warrior dies and others are unharmed as the controller alocates damage:
- he allocates the hit with 1 or 2 damage first on a warrior, and then the other hit on the same warrior (you have to allocate on wounded models first), and because damage does not spread it all goes into one warrior and kills him unless you roll 1 on both d3

It works like this:

Let's assume a model with 2 wounds and a 3+ save. You shoot at him with a weapon that has a -1 save modifier and does 1 damage. You inflict 1 wound on it. The model makes a 4+ save (3+ base with -1 modifier) and fails. The model suffers 1 wound, and has 1 wound left.

Now let's say the model is attacked by a weapon that has a -2 save and inflicts 2 wounds. A 5+ save, and fails, so 2 wounds kills it.

Now let's say it has Feel No Pain on a 5+. The save fails, so 2 damage is inflicted. You make one FnP roll for each damage (2 in this case), let's say you make one, so the model only takes 1 wound.

Now, let's take a unit with 5 models each with 1 wound. For this, save is irrelevant. One attack hits and 2 wounds are inflicted on the unit. Assuming both go through, one model dies, the wounds do not carry over across the unit (which is unlike how this works in AOS). Now if two attacks that did 1 wound each were made, then two models would die.

So if a weapon is say a heavy 3 that does d3 damage if 2 shots hit and wound it could potentially take 2-6 wounds off of the enemy that has been hit?

nateprati wrote:
So if a weapon is say a heavy 3 that does d3 damage if 2 shots hit and wound it could potentially take 2-6 wounds off of the enemy that has been hit?

Correct, it would be d3 per wound inflicted (i.e. the save has been failed). FnP or similar that let you ignore damage happens after this number is rolled, so if you rolled 5 wounds the model would get 5 FnP saves.

nateprati wrote:
So if a weapon is say a heavy 3 that does d3 damage if 2 shots hit and wound it could potentially take 2-6 wounds off of the enemy that has been hit?

So it's like a crowd control element to weapon stats?

A weapon with many more shots and low damage is buffed against a horde unit where damage doesn't roll over to the next model but a 1 shot weapon with high damage can only enflict multiple wounds (through damage) on 1 model at a time.

Am I understanding this right?

Yes. Damage doesn't spill over to the unit, so even if the weapon did 10 damage if it had only one shot you'd only kill one guy.

To expand on this, it would be:

1. Hit (attacker)
2. Wound (attacker)
3. Look out sir (defender)
4. Save (defender)
5. Damage (attacker)
6. Feel-no-pain or equivalents (defender)

It's entirely possible to shoot a 1 wound model with a D3 weapon, inflict 3 damage, resulting in 3 FNP-equiv rolls after damage is dealt. Or in the case of necrons, 3 reanimation protocols.

At least that's my understanding. May change when we see full rules.

there is the roll to wound and the there is the damage it deals. The actual thing that hurts the models is called damage now. Thats the big difference. A bunch of weapons now are capable of dealing multiple damage.

I wonder what happens if you hit a multi-wound unit that has FnP several times with a weapon with multiple damage?

So you hit these nid warriors with 4 lascannons, lets say you roll 2, 3, 5 and 6 for damage. Do you now roll FnP separately for damage of each hit? Or if you roll it all at the same time how do you know what hit goes where and prevent damage from spreading?

 Marmatag wrote:
To expand on this, it would be:

1. Hit (attacker)
2. Wound (attacker)
3. Look out sir (defender)
4. Save (defender)
5. Damage (attacker)
6. Feel-no-pain or equivalents (defender)

It's entirely possible to shoot a 1 wound model with a D3 weapon, inflict 3 damage, resulting in 3 FNP-equiv rolls after damage is dealt. Or in the case of necrons, 3 reanimation protocols.

At least that's my understanding. May change when we see full rules.

It has been stated that the Defender allocates the Damage out to their models, and it's understood that a model must be continuously allocated out until it's dead.

The issue is when you allocated multiple hits and multiple wounds to multi-wound models.

So, example:

1) Grey knights swing in assault phase 12 attacks and hit with 8 of them
2) Grey knight player rolls 8 wound attacks and damage with 5 of them
3) Not really relevant as defender allocates out wounds in unit
4) Primaris Marine player rolls 5 saves and fails 4 of them.
5) Grey knight rolls eight 1d3 rolls for wounds: 1,1,2,3
5a) Primaris player allocates out those wounds to his first model
--> (This is where the question is at) <--
either 5a1) Primaris allocates out 1,2,1,3 equals 2 Marines die
or this 5a2) Primaris allocates out 1,1,2,3 equals 3 Marines die
6) Feel no pain rolls each wound seperately

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
I wonder what happens if you hit a multi-wound unit that has FnP several times with a weapon with multiple damage?

So you hit these nid warriors with 4 lascannons, lets say you roll 2, 3, 5 and 6 for damage. Do you now roll FnP separately for damage of each hit? Or if you roll it all at the same time how do you know what hit goes where and prevent damage from spreading?

Roll to hit> Roll to Wound > Save against each successful wound. > roll for damage and allocate a single die of damage to a model > FNP like abilities have to counter each individual damage.

So, the new heavy hell flamer from the FW data sheet.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/24/new-warhammer-40000-a-forge-world-datasheet-may24gw-homepage-post-4/

Automatically hits d6 times (roll a d6 get a 3) > Roll to wound (lets assume all 3 wound) > Roll your saves (Lets assume you save 1) > each wound deals 2 damage. Pick the first model to suffer damage. If he has a FNP like ability he has to roll 2 dice (one for each damage) and suffer the damage for any FNP like ability he fails. Now do the same with the second wound.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
I wonder what happens if you hit a multi-wound unit that has FnP several times with a weapon with multiple damage?

So you hit these nid warriors with 4 lascannons, lets say you roll 2, 3, 5 and 6 for damage. Do you now roll FnP separately for damage of each hit? Or if you roll it all at the same time how do you know what hit goes where and prevent damage from spreading?

Good question. How are even the wounds allocated? Is one shot allocated to each model. Then you roll to wound the models separately and take FnP rolls. This would leave models with different amount of wounds.

Or would you cluster all wounds into one pool then take the FnP and remove up to a maximun of 4 models?

I have no idea.

Because you probably have to allocated out wounds on the same model until it dies. They probably have to allocated one of the wound numbers, then roll all FNP saves. Then allocated out the second wound number to same model if it hasn't died and roll FNP for that set of wounds.

That will eventually be sped up as receive all numbers 4,5,6,6 and then Roll 21 FNP saves. And allocated the reduced numbers to your models.

Youn wrote:
Because you probably have to allocated out wounds on the same model until it dies. They probably have to allocated one of the wound numbers, then roll all FNP saves. Then allocated out the second wound number to same model if it hasn't died and roll FNP for that set of wounds.

That will eventually be sped up as receive all numbers 4,5,6,6 and then Roll 21 FNP saves. And allocated the reduced numbers to your models.

When I think about it I would quess you would need to roll separately for each model so that no wounds from one shot is spilled over to the next.

Something I haven't seen mentioned (as it is probably obvious) that needs stating is that if a wound is saved, not damage is rolled

So a lascannon doing D6 damage means nothing if a model successfully saves the 1 wound.
Lets look at a Lascannon Vs a Dread:

1) Lascannon rolls 1 dice 'to-hit' needing 3+. If successful:
2) Roll 1 dice 'to-wound' of 3+ If successful:
3) Dread rolls 1 saving throw of 6. If failed:
4) roll D6 damage

If for some reason a Dread gets a FNP equivalent (let's say it's a Death Guard Dread) the owning player would get a
Step 5) roll 5+ for EACH point of damage rolled in the step 4

Final step: apply damage by reducing the number of wounds on the target.

Another important note is that damage is applied to MODELS, not units. So excess damage is lost.
For example, Dark Eldar Disintegrators are Damage 2. With 3 shots, you can only kill a max of 3 Marines, not 6 as each Marine that fails a save dies as soon as 1 Damage is dealt.
However, those Disintegrators can also kill 3 Primaris Marines (which have 2 wounds each).

-

 n0t_u wrote:
It's the same wound system as before still? Just say I shot once with a damage 3 weapon, you get your armour save against that one shot and if you failed you would take 3 damage. Now if you had feel no pain I think you get that save on all the damage instead of the initial shot.

If FnP has the same wording as it did before, it would still be 1 FnP roll, and if failed you'd suffer 3 damage. If passed you'd take none.

Lets say there are some W3 paladins with an apothecary (FnP) and you shot at them with 3 disintegrators, hit 6 times and wound 4 times, then pierce armor 3 times.

Now you have to roll 2d6 fnp for the first hit, then 2d6 fnp for second hit, and then 2d6 fnp for third hit?
Lets say they fail fnp for the first hit, pass it twice for second and fail both for third. Then one paladin dies and others are untouched.

But if you roll these 6 FnPs together and similarly fail 4, one paladin dies and another loses a wound which they wouldn't if you rolled separately.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
I wonder what happens if you hit a multi-wound unit that has FnP several times with a weapon with multiple damage?

So you hit these nid warriors with 4 lascannons, lets say you roll 2, 3, 5 and 6 for damage. Do you now roll FnP separately for damage of each hit? Or if you roll it all at the same time how do you know what hit goes where and prevent damage from spreading?

I assume you would roll FnP after allocating, and before the damage is applied. Since I'm pretty sure 40k will have the same rule AOS does where you have to allocate wounds to one model at a time (with very few things to circumvent this) you would apply the 2 damage, roll FnP and apply, then the 3, the 5 and then the 6, allocating any wounds that get through to a model. So let's say the 2 get through, one model would have 2 wounds on it. Then you check for the 3. Let's say these go through too and kills a model (not sure how many wounds Tyranid Warriors have now), now you check for the 5, and let's say you roll super good and save all of them, finally you check for the 6 and save 3 of them, so one model has 3 wounds applied to it, and you've lost 1 model from the unit.

I hope that rolling all the hits separately won't take too much time.
Also if there isn't a rule of having to apply higher damage first, multi-wound squads are going to be quite tough.

If W3 paladins suffer 2 wounds with damage 3, and 3 wounds with damage 1, they only lose two guys instead of 3 because you can apply 1, 1, then 3 finishing one guy, then 1 and 3 again killing another, instead of 3,3,1,1,1 killing three paladins.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
I hope that rolling all the hits separately won't take too much time.
Also if there isn't a rule of having to apply higher damage first, multi-wound squads are going to be quite tough.

If W3 paladins suffer 2 wounds with damage 3, and 3 wounds with damage 1, they only lose two guys instead of 3 because you can apply 1, 1, then 3 finishing one guy, then 1 and 3 again killing another, instead of 3,3,1,1,1 killing three paladins.

You probably will resolve damage rolls one at a time

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
Lets say there are some W3 paladins with an apothecary (FnP) and you shot at them with 3 disintegrators, hit 6 times and wound 4 times, then pierce armor 3 times.

Now you have to roll 2d6 fnp for the first hit, then 2d6 fnp for second hit, and then 2d6 fnp for third hit?
Lets say they fail fnp for the first hit, pass it twice for second and fail both for third. Then one paladin dies and others are untouched.

But if you roll these 6 FnPs together and similarly fail 4, one paladin dies and another loses a wound which they wouldn't if you rolled separately.

You have to roll for each model until it dies. So in your example, you have to roll saves, then FNP separately.

So let's pick up at the 4 successful wounds
Paladin 1 has to roll a save, fails, now rolls 2 FNP. let's say both fail
Now Paladin 1 only has 1 wound left, so he rolls another save and fails. He still has to roll 2 FNP rolls, but it doesn't mater if he fails both as only 1 damage can be inflicted as damage will not spill to a second model
Paladin 2 can roll the remaining 2 saves together because the max damage possible will not spill over.

A shorter way to do this is to estimate the max damage it takes to kill a model and roll no more than take many saves.
So it takes at least 2 successful Disintegrator wounds to kill a whole 3W Paladin. Roll 2 saves at a time, followed by any FNP rolls before moving onto the next set of saves.

It sounds more complicated than it really is. This kind of rolling should take less than 20 seconds to completey.

-

Wayniac wrote:

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
I wonder what happens if you hit a multi-wound unit that has FnP several times with a weapon with multiple damage?

So you hit these nid warriors with 4 lascannons, lets say you roll 2, 3, 5 and 6 for damage. Do you now roll FnP separately for damage of each hit? Or if you roll it all at the same time how do you know what hit goes where and prevent damage from spreading?

I assume you would roll FnP after allocating, and before the damage is applied. Since I'm pretty sure 40k will have the same rule AOS does where you have to allocate wounds to one model at a time (with very few things to circumvent this) you would apply the 2 damage, roll FnP and apply, then the 3, the 5 and then the 6, allocating any wounds that get through to a model. So let's say the 2 get through, one model would have 2 wounds on it. Then you check for the 3. Let's say these go through too and kills a model (not sure how many wounds Tyranid Warriors have now), now you check for the 5, and let's say you roll super good and save all of them, finally you check for the 6 and save 3 of them, so one model has 3 wounds applied to it, and you've lost 1 model from the unit.

Ok so:
1. Roll to hit with 4 shots.
2. Roll to wound with shots.
3. Take armor saves.
4. Roll damage for first wound and apply to single model.
5. Take FnP.
6. If model is not killed roll damage for next wound to the same model.
7. Take FnP.
8. If model is killed roll damage for next model else continue to roll damage for the same model.

This will slow down game play considerably.

 Cmdr_Sune wrote:

This will slow down game play considerably.

Not for competent players. If both players know what is going on, this should have such a minor affect on the game that it won't be noticeable.

When this might get annoying is if every unit in both players armies are multi-wound and have a FNP equivalent AND all the weapons cause multi-damage.
This should be such a rear occurrence that it shouldn't be worth talking about

Youn wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
To expand on this, it would be:

1. Hit (attacker)
2. Wound (attacker)
3. Look out sir (defender)
4. Save (defender)
5. Damage (attacker)
6. Feel-no-pain or equivalents (defender)

It's entirely possible to shoot a 1 wound model with a D3 weapon, inflict 3 damage, resulting in 3 FNP-equiv rolls after damage is dealt. Or in the case of necrons, 3 reanimation protocols.

At least that's my understanding. May change when we see full rules.

It has been stated that the Defender allocates the Damage out to their models, and it's understood that a model must be continuously allocated out until it's dead.

The issue is when you allocated multiple hits and multiple wounds to multi-wound models.

So, example:

1) Grey knights swing in assault phase 12 attacks and hit with 8 of them
2) Grey knight player rolls 8 wound attacks and damage with 5 of them
3) Not really relevant as defender allocates out wounds in unit
4) Primaris Marine player rolls 5 saves and fails 4 of them.
5) Grey knight rolls eight 1d3 rolls for wounds: 1,1,2,3
5a) Primaris player allocates out those wounds to his first model
--> (This is where the question is at) <--
either 5a1) Primaris allocates out 1,2,1,3 equals 2 Marines die
or this 5a2) Primaris allocates out 1,1,2,3 equals 3 Marines die
6) Feel no pain rolls each wound seperately

You would roll damage dice 1 at a time, not in bulk.

So once the attacks have hit, and wounded, that's when you start dealing with the target, and saves. In the case of different saves, this matters more. For instance, if you elect to take wounds on a 2+ save grouped in with 3+ (unlikely in the new edition, but still), then you'd roll saves followed by damage 1 at a time. In the event all the saves are equal, you'd roll damage one at a time.

While wounds don't spill over, you would still roll damage 1 at a time, because depending on the rolls, the defender may have to pick a new target.

I'm also wondering if you get to roll fnp on damage for a mortal wound. If not mortal wound high damage weapons will be sick

nateprati wrote:
I'm also wondering if you get to roll fnp on damage for a mortal wound. If not mortal wound high damage weapons will be sick

*Thus far* there is no indication that you wouldn't be able to roll both FNP and reanimation protocols - in their current form - for mortal wounds. It seems like instant death is a thing of the past. It may still be true that being doubled-out will negate FNP, or maybe you can make 1 FNP roll maximum, so taking 2 damage on a 1-wound model means death to FNP regardless. We really don't know.

For the sake of speed and ease of play, if I personally was writing the rules, I would say 1 FNP roll per wound. So if you take 2 damage, you can make 1 FNP roll on one damage, and the other goes through regardless. But that's me.