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Greetings folks.

I'm currently digesting some of the new info leaked earlier today. Here's what we know:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334013-full-leaked-blood-angels-rules-other-space-marine-prices/

and, for completeness's sake:

http://imgur.com/a/vE3mI

Things that jump out at me initially.

-Dante is just an HQ choice now, not a Lord of War.

-Mephiston's Sanguine Sword is now a power sword at x2 Strength (all the time...) and -3 AP. Mephiston is still base St:5. Buh.

-Lemartes's Blood Crozius is a better power Maul, +2 Strength and -2 AP like an Axe. Me Likey.

-Lemartes's Fury Unbound rule is amazing. Reroll all failed to hit rolls for ALL Death Co. within 6" of Lemartes all the time AND he lets you
reroll charge rolls for all Death Co. within 6" as well. He's back to being a HQ choice, but that's not a surprise.

-We lose Furious Charge as a rule, but can have an Always On +1 Strength with a Sanguinary High Priest within 6" Fair Trade in my view.

-Librarian Dread is cool still. Force Halberd is nifty, ST+4 (Making it ST:10) at -4 AP. Or you can use the Power Fist for ST:12 swings but at -3
AP. Nice way to make both weapons viable and useful against different targets.

-Feel No Pain is gone, sadly, replaced by the Black Rage army rule that is a combination of +1 Attack on models with this rule in the fight phase immediately following a successful charge phase, Plus a 6+ save for each time the unit loses a wound to ignore the wound. Would have preferred this stayed 5+ but will play it and see.

-If a Death Co. Marine takes a Thunder Hammer it has no more ranged attack weaponry (Replaces both Bolt Pistol & Chainsword)

-Death Masks are still in and a thing (wooo!) and have a really nice, if not basic effect. Sadly Dante's is no longer unique.

-Dante's Axe Mortalis is still very cool, +2 Strength and -3 AP with reroll to wound vs. enemy Characters.

-I will NEVER fire Mephiston's plasma pistol on overcharge. Ever. Ever ever ever.

-Nartheciums got cool. Restore wounds or restore slain models(!!). Glad I have a Sanguinary Novitiate painted up.

-Sanguinary Guard are neat, I don't see an option to equip one with a Chapter Banner though (Or what the do?)

-Frag Cannons are Assault 2D6 but only at 8" range, so Danger Close. It's ST:6 and -1 AP though so pretty great at clearing hordes.

-Furioso and Death Co. Dreads with the Blood Talons vs. Furioso Fists is an interesting choice now. More potential damage with the talons vs. better chance to hit with the fists with the reroll to hit. Death Co. Dread also has Black Rage so it can potentially ignore wounds too.

-Overcharged Engines is a simple and effective mechanic. Helps with making higher speed much more likely.

-Sad to see the Flamestorm Cannon is also only 8" on range, danger close for sure. I would have preferred to have it been 10" minimum but we'll see how it plays out.

-Twinlinked Assault cannon on the Baal Pred is 12 shots(!). Standard Assault Canon is 6 shots now?

-Blood Angels Psychic Powers are all interesting and useful. Shield of Sanguinius is my personal favorite, though I'm not sure if I can target the psyker itself with the power or only another unit (it says "select a friendly Blood Angels unit within 12" of the Psyker", not any other friendly Blood Angels unit, excluding the Psyker himself). All powers only cost 5 or 6 warp charges so they should be fairly easy to cast on 2D6 (most of the time).



Overall I'm pleased with the army list and can't wait to keep building and fleshing my army out even more.

Mephiston jumped to the top of my painting queue, that's for sure.

Going to keep reading here. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

banner carriers are now characters,

 Red__Thirst wrote:
-Librarian Dread is cool still. Force Halberd is nifty, ST+4 (Making it ST:10) at -4 AP. Or you can use the Power Fist for ST:12 swings but at -3
AP. Nice way to make both weapons viable and useful against different targets.

With the way to wound chart goes unlikely fist is all that hot. Basically it only matters against fortifications and few T6 models that have low save. -4AP is more useful. Halves save of any 2+ over fist.

-I will NEVER fire Mephiston's plasma pistol on overcharge. Ever. Ever ever ever.

You KNOW this just begs for you to run into situation where it's literally fire or lose

Agreed, I'll be swinging with the Halberd against most targets, but it's nice to have options.

As for the plasma pistol on Mephiston, on a model that costs as much (and can do as much damage as) Mephiston I can think of no instance where firing a plasma pistol at +1 Strength is worth a one-in-six chance to straight up lose the model.
To each their own, though.

So I'm running into a conundrum. I have a 5 man Jump Pack Honor Guard I usually run, which consists of 3x Veterans, a Sanguinary Novitiate, and a Company Champion.
The Company Champ and Novitiate are locked on their wargear, the champ sporting a bolt pistol, Combat Shield, and Power Sword, while the Novitiate has a chainsword, bolt pistol, and a Narthecium.
The three veterans are straight forward. Storm Shields and chain swords + bolt pistols on two, and a storm shield & Powerfist + bolt pistol on the third.

Now, according to what I'm seeing, the Honor Guard will be limited to just two models max, which I have covered above (the Chain Sword & Storm Shield models), at least assuming Honor Guard can equip Jump Packs. The two 'specialists' in the squad, the Company Champion & Novitiate are both covered and appear to be their own Elite Choices. The third model with the power fist appears to be left out.

I suppose I could run a 3 man squad of Company Veterans (Squad size 2 to 5 models) with Jump Packs kitted out as I have them and just keep the two individual characters with them, I just hope the Honor Guard entry don't get unique rules that the company Veterans wouldn't otherwise have access to, as I built the squad to run with/protect my Captain and/or Librarian miniatures.

Man I want to hurry up and pick these books up.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-



Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
banner carriers are now characters,

I'm tracking on this now, makes sense. I wondered why the squad of Sanguinary Guard started at 4 models strong instead of 5. Upon closer inspection I see the banner rules on both Ancients entries.

Interesting.

More reading to do. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:

As for the plasma pistol on Mephiston, on a model that costs as much (and can do as much damage as) Mephiston I can think of no instance where firing a plasma pistol at +1 Strength is worth a one-in-six chance to straight up lose the model.
To each their own, though.

Last turn, somebody with 2 wounds remaining is standing on objective, you need to kill him or you lose, meph is only one in range

Been in such situations myself.

And not like it even needs to go into that extreme situation to be worth to risk it.

I like the look of these.

Looks like there might be a few fun options (4 Heavy Flamer Devastator Squads?)

And Lemartes allowing a reroll to the charge distance seems to make deepstriking Death Company a real threat.


My only issue though is that I run a Blood Angel successor chapter and it now seems like I won't have access to "counts as" named characters anymore?

Bit of a shame.

Don't worry about the 'counts as' characters. If your'e using stuff with the same keywords its fine. It's only an issue if your chapter has some added stuff that wouldn't have the BA keyword, and even then you're just losing access to strategems, some synergy, and maybe some CP depending on how you build the list.

My initial though on the BA list is that it's very cool, and very balanced as far as I can tell so far. I'm liking Death Company at 17pts each, but they're not a huge deal or anything over 13 point Tacs. The +1 A on the charge is a nice multiplier though, and the 6+ ignore any wound by itself accounts for about half the cost difference. So they are essentially paying 2 pts for +1A base and another +1 on the charge. I'll take it.

I like how the Sanguinary Guard went to 2W. I find it odd that the plasma pistol option is cheaper than the angelus boltgun though.

Hmm,
am I counting stuff right? That land raider seems very costly atleast. Dunno about what will be regular point margin for tourneys.. Anyone got idea if sang. noviate will be a elite/hq choice? DC are getting some downtune, but tanks and walkers might see some battle even with concentrated fire from enemies. Plasma also seems deadly.. Wonder if you could take drop pods or rhino's outside dedicated transports to fill up compulsory FAST attack slots to get the brigade detachment. My biggest complaint so far is lack of Captain Karlaen.. and no new how drop pods work, do they give you few inches to get close with the enemy.

Anyways, here's some total points that I think is the way to count them. Got some more, but was doing a test brigade det.. If someone likes to know that this list is 2657points with the 7th edition system without land raider redeemer's cost. I added it afterwards because, over 400p that's costly! Also you guys think that sergeants cost the same as normal marine and those veterans will be available as a sergeant upgrade as a ~3 points upgrade..

BRIGADE DETACHMENT

HQ 3-5

Commander Dante (215p)

Chaplain with jump pack, crozius arcanum, inferno pistol (110p)

Sanguinary priest + jump packs + power sword (90p)

ELITES 3-8

Furioso dreadnought + frag cannon + furioso fist + heavy flamer (198p)
Drop pod + storm bolter (105p)

10man death company with jump packs + 2x power fist + 2x power sword (248p)

4man sanguinary guard + 2x axe encarmine + 2x sword encarmine (182p)

TROOPS 6-12

10man tactical squad + heavy flamer + flamer + 2x hand flamer (172p)
Drop pod + storm bolter (105p)

10man tactical squad + multi-melta + melta gun + combi-melta + melta bombs (198p)
Drop pod + storm bolter (105p)

10man tactical squad +heavy flamer +melta gun +power sword 168
Rhino + storm bolter 72

5man scout squad + heavy bolter (65p)

5man scout squad + 5x sniper rifle (75p)

5man scout squad + 4x sniper rifle + missile launcher (96)

HEAVY 3-5

Baal predator + flamestorm cannon + 2x heavy bolter 177

Predator + Twin lascannon + lascannon sponsons (202)

Predator + Twin lascannon + lascannon sponsons (202)

Land raider redeemer + twin assault cannon + 2x flamestorm cannon + multi-melta (406)

FAST 3-5

3man bike squad + 2x plasma gun + combi-plasma (104)

Attack bike with multi-melta (72p)

10man assault squad + jump packs + 2x melta gun + power sword (198p)

Total: 3741 points

Sniper rifles are going to be beastly. Almost an auto-include.

Looks like snowflake chapters aren't getting codex compliance forced on them just yet.
That's promising.

tneva82 wrote:

Last turn, somebody with 2 wounds remaining is standing on objective, you need to kill him or you lose, meph is only one in range

Been in such situations myself.

And not like it even needs to go into that extreme situation to be worth to risk it.

If I'm close enough to shoot a 12" range pistol at something, I'm going to shoot it at regular power and then charge that same target with ST:10 Force Weapon swings instead of tempting fate and rolling that 1 to watch him die to plasma explosion. You do you, though.

alanmckenzie wrote:I like the look of these.

Looks like there might be a few fun options (4 Heavy Flamer Devastator Squads?)

And Lemartes allowing a reroll to the charge distance seems to make deepstriking Death Company a real threat.


My only issue though is that I run a Blood Angel successor chapter and it now seems like I won't have access to "counts as" named characters anymore?

Bit of a shame.

Oh man a 4 Heavy Flamer devastator squad never even crossed my mind. That would be amazing piling out of a drop pod. I'll have to set about building one of these for area denial. I need two devastator squads anyway, so I'll take this all day long. Kudos for spotting it!

Fenris-77 wrote:Don't worry about the 'counts as' characters. If your'e using stuff with the same keywords its fine. It's only an issue if your chapter has some added stuff that wouldn't have the BA keyword, and even then you're just losing access to strategems, some synergy, and maybe some CP depending on how you build the list.

My initial though on the BA list is that it's very cool, and very balanced as far as I can tell so far. I'm liking Death Company at 17pts each, but they're not a huge deal or anything over 13 point Tacs. The +1 A on the charge is a nice multiplier though, and the 6+ ignore any wound by itself accounts for about half the cost difference. So they are essentially paying 2 pts for +1A base and another +1 on the charge. I'll take it.

Agreed, I'm quite liking how balanced everything is looking so far. It's looking like you can buff the attacks with Black Rage and the Unleash Rage Psychic Power, plus the additional attack from models wielding Chainswords, so you charge in with 2 attacks base, +1 for charging from Black Rage, +1 for Chainsword models, +1 for Unleash Rage (if available). That's 4 or 5 attacks each on average, pretty gnarly.

Mulletdude wrote:I like how the Sanguinary Guard went to 2W. I find it odd that the plasma pistol option is cheaper than the angelus boltgun though.

I missed this on the initial posting but caught it afterward, very pleased to see it. I'll be running a squad of these guys for sure, likely led by/attached to a Sanguinary Ancient with a banner for good measure.

koooaei wrote:Sniper rifles are going to be beastly. Almost an auto-include.

As much as I detest painting scouts, I have to agree. I'll be picking up a second box of scouts at some point for Sniper Rifle goodness at some point.

Take it easy for now, and thanks for all the replies folks.

-Red__Thirst-

I looked, but didn't see if we can take jump pack marines as troops. Is that a thing, or will they use the FOC as a way to allow a JP army?

Considering how they are progressing the story, I'm happy that Tycho is still playable.

 3orangewhips wrote:
I looked, but didn't see if we can take jump pack marines as troops. Is that a thing, or will they use the FOC as a way to allow a JP army?

Force Org options alternatives are a way to field an all Jump army. There's one with Mandatory Elite, and one with Mandatory Fast Attack in lieu of Troops. They get fewer command points as a balancing factor.

Still you could field an all Death Company army with the elite in lieu of troops FoC, and a heavy Assault Squad oriented force with fast attack instead of troops FoC, etc.

I'm also slightly saddened that Thunderfire Cannons, StormTalon gunships and Land Speeder Storms are still not allowed in a BA force. Ah well, can't miss what you never had.

In addition, I answered my Honor Guard question just now, as it appears that Honor Guard are also not available to Blood Angels (at least in the same way as the standard Marine list). They're not on the list of available units, curiously enough.

No biggy, then. I've got Company Veterans to field the squad as I have it built.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

My problem with the 4 Heavy Flamer Dev squad in a Pod is that it can't debark close enough to shoot anything. Min 9" away, range 8". Meh.

On the upside, magna grapples make charging a Dread out of a Pod at vehicles pretty reliable. Also, Lemartes allows Death Company Dreads to reroll charge and hits if he's within 6", which is dead sexy. Jumppack him in, drop two dreads, reroll charge distance (+2 if a vehicle) and reroll hits in HtH. Yikes! Mind you, it costs like 700 pts for the Dreads, Pods, and Lemartes, but hey, it's super cool.

I feel like I want to take all of the HQ choices haha.

The Sanguinor would be amazing for an assault list, Dante looks beast, a normal captain for fluff to be leading your normal marines, Sanguinary priest for that glorious healing, librarian dreadnought cos it's beastly.

I want them all!

I'm curious how they'll handle auto-hit versus flying units. In 7th it was easy - using a template? Can't shoot at a flier! It's a bit more nebulous now... They could say that anything which "automatically hits," needs to roll a 6 to hit a flier, for instance. So your 2D6 frag cannon shots can shoot at the flier, but you'd need to roll a 6 per shot to actually hit.

But it's not immediately clear how this will shake out.

I assume they auto hit fliers. The range means though that you'll probably never get to hit them with a flamer. A smart pilot will keep out of your 8" range

Is it me, or is there no way to now take a Chaplain with a jump pack? Only thing that really bums me out if that's the case as the DC Chaplain is one of my favourite models.

Huh, that's weird. I think it may be a typo and the Chaplain entry was suppose to have the 1 footnote (or maybe they omitted the Jump Pack Chaplain?). GW's current only Blood Angels Chaplain is one with a jump pack so it's kinda weird it doesn't have rules. Maybe someone can ask on the FB Page?

I don't think I'd get an answer as these aren't official leaks and they don't have a habit of even acknowledging them. Hopefully as you said it's a typo and will get FAQ'd immediately. I actually asked in my local GW store and the manager assured me if there is a model there are rules, but we shall see.

Reckon the Baal predators will be a bit good now? They're tough in defence and putting out 18 shots per turn with twin assault cannons and sponsons. Seem pretty worth it for 177pts. My blood angels predator army may be hitting the tabletop again soon! It's had a long break...

Re: jump pack Chaplains,

If it works like Sanguinary High Priests, then it'll be an option on the Power Armored Chaplain's data sheet on the Wargear Options section and tell you to add Jump Pack and Fly to the keywords.

Since Standard Marines and Dark Angels can both have Jump Pack Chaplains since *forever*, along with Blood Angels too obviously, I expect the power armored Chaplain to be able to have a Jump Pack addition in the options section. We'll see though. I'd be shocked if that wasn't the case, as that's one of the most iconic things about Blood Angels is jump pack Chaplains leading a huge jump pack equipped Death Company.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Indeed. I can think of no other Chapter that would be more closely associated with a jump pack chaplain than the Blood Angels (Black Templar Chaplains are more footsloggers to go with the crusader squads, while Raven Guard are more known for their Jump Pack Captains than Chaplains).

However the points cost lists the Jump Pack Chaplain (along with the bike and terminator variants) as separate unit entries, which is the same on the BA list, so one would assume it either means BA get access to a biker/term chaplain but not a jump pack one. Which would be very odd.

Just a minor thing i guess, but did they really have to call them blood talons and furioso fists?

Jump Pack Chappie is 90pts base in the leaked images, no worries lads, there just isn't a picture of his 'slate. Everyone take a deep breath.

For some reason whenever I try and enlarge an image (from Bolet & chainsword) on my phone it just goes blank. Can someone post the Baal Preds rules for me here please? Thanking you hugely in advance :-).

The Baal...

WS 6+ BS * (I dunno why) S6 T7 W11 Ld8 Sv 3+

Twin AC or Flamestorm turret, HB of HF sponsons

Overcharged Engines - roll 2d6 for Advance and pick the highest

Flamestorm is Rng 8" Assault D6, S6 AP-2 D2
TAC is Range 24" Hvy 12 6/-1/1

Yea, I may wind up picking a Baal Predator in the future. That thing is crazy good as a dakka tank or even as a fast area denial fire breather.

Both options sound fun, though the Twinlinked Assault Cannon turret will likely remain my personally preferred variant.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-