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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/03/legion-focus-world-eaters-aug-3gw-homepage-post-2/

The rumors are true, an additional attack on the charge. That's fantastic! You're about to see a crazy amount of Berzerkers running around...

It's even better actually. GW just confirmed on their facebook this stacks with their activations.

So Berserkers get STUPID numbers of attacks on the charge.

An extra 2 attacks per berserker - and they were already amazing. Wowwwwww. Chain axes are definitely the go to pick now. Edit: that's 8 s5 attacks each (chainsword). 10 for the champion.

For 3 cp, a berserker unit could fight 3 times. Thats just ludicrous.

Lancelot185 wrote:
An extra 2 attacks per berserker - and they were already amazing. Wowwwwww. Chain axes are definitely the go to pick now. Edit: that's 8 s5 attacks each (chainsword). 10 for the champion.

As an aside, you don't have to choose between chain axe and chain sword. You can have both as long as you don't want a pistol.

It's even BETTER actually. The Crimson Slaughter booklet that was given out for the update Dark Vengeance rules has a sneak at the Exalted Champion rules.

Guess what they do?

They make legion units within 6" of them reroll wounds during the Fight phase.

There will be blood. For the blood god.

1CP to Deny ANY power on a 4+, regardless of who was casting, is gonna be very very good against psyker heavy armies.


Kharn is going to be amazing vs Tyranid armies, or anything with lots of characters.


Berserkers are going to be seriously vying for the Platinum trophy in "Which Unit Can Absolutely Obliter-nnihilate Any Other Unit" competition. Going by Lancelot's breakdown, that's a very very real potential of 246 Str 5 attacks, hitting on 3+ and wounding most things on a 5+ at worst. Per turn. (Calculations not taking casualties into account). That sort of dice rolling puts an Ork shooting phase to shame.

 Arkaine wrote:
It's even BETTER actually. The Crimson Slaughter booklet that was given out for the update Dark Vengeance rules has a sneak at the Exalted Champion rules.

Guess what they do?

They make legion units within 6" of them reroll wounds during the Fight phase.

There will be blood. For the blood god.

18 berserkers (3 units), exalted champion and dark apostle in a kharybdis. 150 s5 attacks from the berserkers, rerolling hits and wounds. I can see berserkers becoming chaos' ultimate cheese.

Yea, its going to be more important than ever to be able to pop their transports before they get more than 1 turn of movement.

So lemme get this straight. Assuming berserkers don't change, they:

Have 2 attacks base
can get another 2 attacks via two chainswords
get +1 when they charge
fight twice in the assault phase due to their own rules
then fight again if you spend the CP?

That's 15 attacks out of ONE model in one turn.

Lancelot185 wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
It's even BETTER actually. The Crimson Slaughter booklet that was given out for the update Dark Vengeance rules has a sneak at the Exalted Champion rules.

Guess what they do?

They make legion units within 6" of them reroll wounds during the Fight phase.

There will be blood. For the blood god.

18 berserkers (3 units), exalted champion and dark apostle in a kharybdis. 150 s5 attacks from the berserkers, rerolling hits and wounds. I can see berserkers becoming chaos' ultimate cheese.

Yep, lots of S5 attacks. Now calculate the S4 ones too.

18 Berserkers (3 units) with Chainaxe + Chainsword = 3 attacks for each of the 15 berserkers, 4 for each of the 3 champions.
On the charge it's +1 per model. 4 per zerker, 5 per champ.
Multiplied by 3 swings (fights twice, fights AGAIN at the end of phase)
75*3 = 225 attacks..... Rerolling everything.

And that's not counting any of the Exalted Champion's or Dark Apostle's combat capabilities.

Berzerkers can't take two chainswords.

 Arkaine wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:

 Arkaine wrote:
It's even BETTER actually. The Crimson Slaughter booklet that was given out for the update Dark Vengeance rules has a sneak at the Exalted Champion rules.

Guess what they do?

They make legion units within 6" of them reroll wounds during the Fight phase.

There will be blood. For the blood god.

18 berserkers (3 units), exalted champion and dark apostle in a kharybdis. 150 s5 attacks from the berserkers, rerolling hits and wounds. I can see berserkers becoming chaos' ultimate cheese.

Yep, lots of S5 attacks. Now calculate the S4 ones too.

18 Berserkers (3 units) with Chainaxe + Chainsword = 3 attacks for each of the 15 berserkers, 4 for each of the 3 champions.
On the charge it's +1 per model. 4 per zerker, 5 per champ.
Multiplied by 3 swings (fights twice, fights AGAIN at the end of phase)
75*3 = 225 attacks..... Rerolling everything.

And that's not counting any of the Exalted Champion's or Dark Apostle's combat capabilities.

They don't have s4 attacks. S5 is chainswords, s6 is chainaxes.

Lancelot185 wrote:
They don't have s4 attacks. S5 is chainswords, s6 is chainaxes.

Even better.

What are you guys' thoughts on a storm eagle for transporting them? Guaranteed turn 2 charge (assuming it doesnt get destroyed - it's quite durable though). And can take 20.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
So lemme get this straight. Assuming berserkers don't change, they:

Have 2 attacks base
can get another 2 attacks via two chainswords
get +1 when they charge
fight twice in the assault phase due to their own rules
then fight again if you spend the CP?

That's 15 attacks out of ONE model in one turn.

Man, all those 2000pts units better watch out.

There gets a point where the amount of attacks a unit puts out becomes redundant. Saying something has 15 attacks in one turn sounds impressive but how often are you going to need that many attacks? Not to mention 3cps is A LOT. Which I'm noticing is something people keep forgetting with these Stratagems.

Sim-Life wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
So lemme get this straight. Assuming berserkers don't change, they:

Have 2 attacks base
can get another 2 attacks via two chainswords
get +1 when they charge
fight twice in the assault phase due to their own rules
then fight again if you spend the CP?

That's 15 attacks out of ONE model in one turn.

Man, all those 2000pts units better watch out.

There gets a point where the amount of attacks a unit puts out becomes redundant. Saying something has 15 attacks in one turn sounds impressive but how often are you going to need that many attacks? Not to mention 3cps is A LOT. Which I'm noticing is something people keep forgetting with these Stratagems.

When you're attacking tough units, or massive blobs (conscripts etc). You can also charge multiple units, and pile in after wiping one, and then attack the next one in the same phase. So, more attacks gives you far more versatility.

Well, this is going to just encourage people to take more conscripts to save them from the deathblobs of zerks.

even without the extra fight phase, a mere 6 berserkers stands a good chance of completely wiping out a conscript squad in 1 turn of combat through pure wounds. that is pretty insane.

The moral of the story is to charge the Berzerkers first, I guess.

Lancelot185 wrote:

Sim-Life wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
So lemme get this straight. Assuming berserkers don't change, they:

Have 2 attacks base
can get another 2 attacks via two chainswords
get +1 when they charge
fight twice in the assault phase due to their own rules
then fight again if you spend the CP?

That's 15 attacks out of ONE model in one turn.

Man, all those 2000pts units better watch out.

There gets a point where the amount of attacks a unit puts out becomes redundant. Saying something has 15 attacks in one turn sounds impressive but how often are you going to need that many attacks? Not to mention 3cps is A LOT. Which I'm noticing is something people keep forgetting with these Stratagems.

When you're attacking tough units, or massive blobs (conscripts etc). You can also charge multiple units, and pile in after wiping one, and then attack the next one in the same phase. So, more attacks gives you far more versatility.

I agree with stuff like tough units, but then its one turn of glory. As to your other points you're applying that "oppenent stands there in a perfect line waiting for death" thinking that shed this in a good light.

You know where the Berzerkers are. Your models are not stationary. Why are you lining up in such a way that allows them to just plough through your lines and just standing there while they come towards you?

 Marmatag wrote:
The moral of the story is to charge the Berzerkers first, I guess.

Error: 0 Search Results. Did you mean GUARDSMEN, AFFIX BAYONETS!!!?

 Marmatag wrote:
The moral of the story is to charge the Berzerkers first, I guess.

Or just shoot them till they stop moving.

also its 3cp for the extra extra extra attack fight phases. dunno how many CP chaos can get at 2k or whatever but it shouldn't be that bad or tooooo often. at minimum they get to do it once.

Sim-Life wrote:

Lancelot185 wrote:

Sim-Life wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
So lemme get this straight. Assuming berserkers don't change, they:

Have 2 attacks base
can get another 2 attacks via two chainswords
get +1 when they charge
fight twice in the assault phase due to their own rules
then fight again if you spend the CP?

That's 15 attacks out of ONE model in one turn.

Man, all those 2000pts units better watch out.

There gets a point where the amount of attacks a unit puts out becomes redundant. Saying something has 15 attacks in one turn sounds impressive but how often are you going to need that many attacks? Not to mention 3cps is A LOT. Which I'm noticing is something people keep forgetting with these Stratagems.

When you're attacking tough units, or massive blobs (conscripts etc). You can also charge multiple units, and pile in after wiping one, and then attack the next one in the same phase. So, more attacks gives you far more versatility.

I agree with stuff like tough units, but then its one turn of glory. As to your other points you're applying that "oppenent stands there in a perfect line waiting for death" thinking that shed this in a good light.

You know where the Berzerkers are. Your models are not stationary. Why are you lining up in such a way that allows them to just plough through your lines and just standing there while they come towards you?

My point was that more attacks gives you more versatility. That's irrefutable. Should you see two units close together (perhaps it's a tough HQ, or whatever), you have the option to charge both and make good use of your extra attacks. Sure, sometimes they'll overkill units, but, I'd rather have greater damage potential, at the irrelevant cost of overkill.

Sim-Life wrote:
There gets a point where the amount of attacks a unit puts out becomes redundant. Saying something has 15 attacks in one turn sounds impressive but how often are you going to need that many attacks? Not to mention 3cps is A LOT. Which I'm noticing is something people keep forgetting with these Stratagems.

What's better? Spending 3 CP on rerolls in the next turn or two? Or denying your opponent the use of half of his army by annihilating it right now? Those extra attacks can make the difference between a unit or tank surviving and not surviving, or eliminate even more squads that were just planning on shooting you later.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
even without the extra fight phase, a mere 6 berserkers stands a good chance of completely wiping out a conscript squad in 1 turn of combat through pure wounds. that is pretty insane.

Even easier using buffs. Assuming we're still looking at the same example from above...

225 attacks that hit on 3s, rerolling due to Dark Apostle, is an average of 200 hits.
Conscripts being T3 means 75% of those attacks are wounding on 2s, rerolling due to Exalted Champion, means about 146 wounds out of 150 S6 attacks.
The other 25% are weaker so wound on 3s, rerolling due to Exalted Champion, means about 44 wounds out of 50 S5 attacks.
So 146 of those wounds carry a -1 AP meaning Conscripts save on a 6+, or about 122 dead conscripts.
The other 44 wounds have no AP meaning the Conscripts save on a 5+, or about 29 dead conscripts.

So you're looking at 151 dead conscripts and the Exalted Champion + Dark Apostle haven't even swung yet.


DISCLAIMER FOR THE EXTREMELY ANGSTY TROLLS IN THE ROOM: All of this assumes every Berserker survives until the end of the Fight phase. Which is doable if the conscript are fighting someone else or suck at rolling. With each berserker casualty the number of kills will decrease.

 Arkaine wrote:

Sim-Life wrote:
There gets a point where the amount of attacks a unit puts out becomes redundant. Saying something has 15 attacks in one turn sounds impressive but how often are you going to need that many attacks? Not to mention 3cps is A LOT. Which I'm noticing is something people keep forgetting with these Stratagems.

What's better? Spending 3 CP on rerolls in the next turn or two? Or denying your opponent the use of half of his army by annihilating it right now? Those extra attacks can make the difference between a unit or tank surviving and not surviving, or eliminate even more squads that were just planning on shooting you later.

Literally what are you doing in your lists and on the table where a single on foot unit is able to reach and kill half your army in close combat in one turn?

Unless you're playing Imperial Knights and make really bad target priority decisions I feel like your exaggerating.

Also you're gonna want to have something else absorb the overwatch if yo'ure charging a 50-strong conscript unit.

 Arkaine wrote:

So you're looking at 151 dead conscripts and the Exalted Champion + Dark Apostle haven't even swung yet.

So the zerks are literally killing the conscripts and their parents in one go.

Good gravy.

Also for all we know zerks might be getting a price hike for all that power.

It's about to get Khorney up in here!

 Melissia wrote:
Also you're gonna want to have something else absorb the overwatch if yo'ure charging a 50-strong conscript unit.

Not to be a debbie downer, but overwatch from 100 lasgun shots averages 1.85 wounds vs T4 3+. I think Berserkers can safely ignore the "threat" of such things. That's even assuming they are at full strength, and all 50 models are within 12" of the charging unit.