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Ok, so I wanted to clarify the wording on some units, like Honor Guard and Company Vets. When standing X distance from a character that takes a wound, on Y+ they can "intercept" that wound and take a mortal one themselves. In the case of say a D6 damage hit, the Character takes 3 wounds, does the bodyguard unit absorb the whole hit, or is it resolved on a wound by wound basis? Thanks.

wound by wound basis.

RAW it's per wound, not per shot.

If I recall there was one unit that was written slightly differently where it did intercept shots, but for all the others it's written -
'Roll a D6 each time a friendly <X> character loses a wound, on a <X> they don't lose a wound, but this character suffers a mortal wound instead.'

Note it's often not optional either. If I remember there was much sadness and confusion with Tyrant Guard taking Lascannon shots for hive tyrants, where the Tyrant Guard could end up losing _two_ models to the single lascannon shot, because mortal wounds spill over and normal wounds don't.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
wound by wound basis.

Ok, so lets say I have a Character with 5 Company Vets. Character takes 3 wounds, I could roll 3 dice to see if the vets take the hit or not. How is that declared? If say one of them rolls a '1' and fails to take the hit, can I say a 4th one tries to take it?

Second question. Say the character has the ability to take half damage when it takes wounds, which to my knowledge always rounds up. Character takes the same 3 wounds, and I only want one Vet to take one hit, which he does, that then lowers the total damage to Character to 2 damage, cut in half to 1 damage, plus 1 mortal wound on the Vet, right?

Gwarok wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
wound by wound basis.

Ok, so lets say I have a Character with 5 Company Vets. Character takes 3 wounds, I could roll 3 dice to see if the vets take the hit or not. How is that declared? If say one of them rolls a '1' and fails to take the hit, can I say a 4th one tries to take it?

Second question. Say the character has the ability to take half damage when it takes wounds, which to my knowledge always rounds up. Character takes the same 3 wounds, and I only want one Vet to take one hit, which he does, that then lowers the total damage to Character to 2 damage, cut in half to 1 damage, plus 1 mortal wound on the Vet, right?

I shoot your character. 3 Wounds.
My rule forces the veterans to take the wounds on a roll of a squiggle [Rolls 3 dice.]
Two successes. Two mortal wounds on the veterans and the character takes a wound.


I don't think the abilities optional. However it does trigger _when the character takes a wound_ so therefore if your character takes only half damage, and I dealt him 6 damage, he'd only take 3 wounds, and so there would only be 3 rolls for the veterans to jump in the way. If it's written anything like the one in the book in my lap, at no point does anything other than the dice get to decide how many wounds are allocated where. All the wounds you would suffer are tested, regardless of how many you'd 'like'.

Otherwise we'd only care when they got to one wound, right?

See that's where it gets sticky, is it only the wounds he would have taken not the wounds dealt by the attack? The order of precedence is important, especially since I'm stacking some bodyguards around my Company Champion geared with the Shield Indomitus in hopes they can shave off an odd number of wounds before the shield does it's thing. It also determines how many marines can try take the hit.

"Honour Guard: Roll a D6 each time a friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit – the CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound." (chapter vets have same wording just chapter vet instead of honour guard)

The roll is not optional the taking of the hit is, one roll per wound for each unit of honour guard or company vets that has a model within 3" of the wounded dude. Rolls are simultaneous and therefore resolved using the sequencing rules in the core rules and the player who's turn it is determines order. Number of models is irrelevant.

So I have a Cpt with an honour guard and company vets unit within 3". My opponent las cannons him for 3 wounds. It is my opponents turn so he selects the veterans first I succeed on the 2+ Wound role I have the option to take the W or not to if I choose not to we roll for the honour guard and then if successful I choose whether or not to assign them the W. We then proceed to resolve the 2nd W the opponent now chooses the honour guard... repeat till resolved.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

If I recall there was one unit that was written slightly differently where it did intercept shots

You may be thinking of the Deathshroud silent bodyguard rule, where they make the 2+ roll when the character is hit.

I have never read this rule that way.
Tyrant Guard says

on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept the hit.

Not intercept the damage. Or intercept the wound. But the HIT.

Since a single wound deals all of it's damage at the same time and from the same hit it's the moment the model takes any damage that the effect triggers. Then, all the damage from the hit is transferred to the body guard and converted into a single mortal wound.

Thats how I have always read it.

You will note that the character does not take the damage (in my reading ANY of the damage from the wound) and the body guard takes a mortal wound. A hit that causes a mortal wound doesn't roll to wound. It wounds automatically with no save possible. I think them saying they intercept the HIT is very deliberate.

 Lance845 wrote:
I have never read this rule that way.
Tyrant Guard says

on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept the hit.

Not intercept the damage. Or intercept the wound. But the HIT.

Since a single wound deals all of it's damage at the same time and from the same hit it's the moment the model takes any damage that the effect triggers. Then, all the damage from the hit is transferred to the body guard and converted into a single mortal wound.

Thats how I have always read it.

If that was the whole rule you'd be right but its not.


The shieldwall rule says "Roll a dice each time a friendly Hive Tyrant within 3" looses a wound. On a 2+ this model intercepts that hit and suffers a mortal wound."

The tyrant has to loose a wound first before the shieldwall rule can even activate. If your loosing wounds then you already suffered the damage from the attack and thus you don't get to turn a 3 dmg attack into one mortal wound.

 Eihnlazer wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I have never read this rule that way.
Tyrant Guard says

on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept the hit.

Not intercept the damage. Or intercept the wound. But the HIT.

Since a single wound deals all of it's damage at the same time and from the same hit it's the moment the model takes any damage that the effect triggers. Then, all the damage from the hit is transferred to the body guard and converted into a single mortal wound.

Thats how I have always read it.

If that was the whole rule you'd be right but its not.


The shieldwall rule says "Roll a dice each time a friendly Hive Tyrant within 3" looses a wound. On a 2+ this model intercepts that hit and suffers a mortal wound."

The tyrant has to loose a wound first before the shieldwall rule can even activate. If your loosing wounds then you already suffered the damage from the attack and thus you don't get to turn a 3 dmg attack into one mortal wound.

Except your quote is wrong.

Roll a die each time a Hive Tyrant looses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit. The Hive Tyrant does not loose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.

Part 1) "Roll a die each time a Hive Tyrant looses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit"
-Again, wounds deal all their damage simultaneously. You don't deduct 1 wound at a time. A single wound that deals 6 damage is a single subtraction of 6 wounds not 6 subtractions of 1 wound. Its the fact that any wounds have been lost that causes the effect to trigger, not the fact that 1 wound has been lost.

Part 2) "on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit."
-See above. HIT is important.

Part 3) "The Hive Tyrant does not loose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound."
-The fact that the damage from the unsaved wound is all dealt simultaneously is again important. The Hive Tyrant does not loose a wound. I.E. no wounds are lost from the instance that triggered the effect, and this unit suffers a mortal wound. All the damage is converted into a single mortal wound.

I wont argue with you about this here as it doesn't pertain to the OP's question. Just know that I am definitely correct and your interpretation is wrong.

Every bodyguard unit effectively works the same way this edition. They convert wounds dealt to the main target into mortal wounds on the bodyguard. They don't magically change all received damage into one mortal wound.

1 yes and no. all w are technically at the same time but when you try and resolve effects happening at the same time you resolve 1 fully then the next then the next according to the sequencing rules.

2 The "can" is important it applies optionality the "hit" I would read to mean the individual wound but I recognise you might read it differently to cover the whole shot however at least in the sm codex the next line clarifies what this means

"on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit – the CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound."

So it is clearly representing the W not the whole shot

3 since simultaneous effects/abilities are resloved in sequence according to the core rules after the first W is resolved in its entirety by this process you move on to resolving the 2nd and then the 3rd...

So the body guard sequence triggers as many times as there are w

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I wont argue with you about this here as it doesn't pertain to the OP's question. Just know that I am definitely correct and your interpretation is wrong.

Every bodyguard unit effectively works the same way this edition. They convert wounds dealt to the main target into mortal wounds on the bodyguard. They don't magically change all received damage into one mortal wound.

Actually it's the exact subject of the OPs question. Does the body guard absorb the whole hit or a single damage?

I have seen A LOT of people play it the way you are saying it works. But the rules don't have a wording that says to convert a single damage into a mortal wound. Actually at no point in any of the rules do they mention damage at all. They never say to convert them one at a time. At no point, in any of the rules documents, do they say each damage is applied separately.

Consider it written out this way.

The Hive Tyrant suffers an unsaved wound dealing 6 damage. The Hive Tyrant looses 6 wounds. At this point it is fair to say that qualifier "the Hive Tyrant looses a wound" has been met. Roll a die, 2+. Success. Now, the Hive Tyrant does not loose a wound, the Tyrant guard intercept the HIT, and suffers a mortal wound.

What part of that scenario doesn't follow the step by step rules as laid out by the Tyrant Guards ability?

Look if the rules work as you think they do then a single FNP roll cancels out a 3 dmg attack. Think about that for a second.

U02dah4 wrote:
1 yes and no. all w are technically at the same time but when you try and resolve effects happening at the same time you resolve 1 fully then the next then the next according to the sequencing rules.

Sequencing rules are not relevant here. This is not 2 effects triggering simultaneously. This is a single effect.

2 The "can" is important it applies optionality the "hit" I would read to mean the individual wound but I recognise you might read it differently to cover the whole shot however at least in the sm codex the next line clarifies what this means

"on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit – the CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound."

So it is clearly representing the W not the whole shot

But if you are reading it as the HIT then when they say the character does not lose a wound it can mean it does not lose a wound PERIOD. As in no wounds are lost at all. Not that a singular wound is not lost but that the Character is free of losing a wound all together for the sake of this single effect.

3 since simultaneous effects/abilities are resloved in sequence according to the core rules after the first W is resolved in its entirety by this process you move on to resolving the 2nd and then the 3rd...

So the body guard sequence triggers as many times as there are w

Again, sequencing doesn't apply. This isn't like 2 players activating multiple effects that trigger at the same time or multipel units being in range each with their own effect. This is a single wound causing a single effect. 1 subtraction of 6 damage is a single effect that is (remaining W - 6). Not ((Remaining W - 1) x 6).

Sequencing does apply here, or it never applies. You cant just use it when it benefits you.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Look if the rules work as you think they do then a single FNP roll cancels out a 3 dmg attack. Think about that for a second.

I don't even disagree with this line of thinking you have. Except that FNP like abilities 1) have been clarified in an FAQ as to how they work with each "Suffered wound" being counted separately while the body guards have not, and 2) AGAIN, the inclusion of the word "hit" in ALL (except maybe the Tau drone rules I think) of the body guard rules.

It's either pretty standard piss poor GW rules writing where they should be writing damage instead of wound and not using the word hit which is a mechanical entity where they intend it as a general term, or the point of body guards is to turn what would be incredibly damaging attacks into less but unstoppable wounds for themselves. Meaning you probably WANT to target the body guards first to clear them away and not waste the damage potential. Furthering making them valuable in protecting those characters by diverting the shots from the get go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Sequencing does apply here, or it never applies. You cant just use it when it benefits you.

It's not about benefiting me or anyone else or anything to do with benefiting. There are no 2 separate effects to sequence. Again, damage is dealt in 1 6 damage chunk not 6 simultaneous 1 damage nicks and dimes. There is nothing to sequence.

One W is lost for each point of damage therefore if a model takes 3 it loses 1w for each point of damage W1W2W3

W1 is an effect
W2 is an effect
W3 is an effect

I have 3 effects triggering simultaneously

I would rather shoot the guards anyway with almost all weapons.

T7 with a 3+/4++ vs T6 with a 3+

The only weapons that would rather shoot the tyrant are str8 D6 dmg weapons. Its a wash with str5 -1 armor weapons or weaker.

U02dah4 wrote:
W1 is an effect
W2 is an effect
W3 is an effect

I have 3 effects triggering simultaneously

If you roll 3 hits, and then 3 wounds each wound is meant to be allocated 1 at a time. They are each a separate effect. But damage is not. 1 wound deals it's damage as a single chunk. Can you reference a page in the rule book that says it works otherwise?

All we have is whats on the bottom of page 5 of the primer. Step 5. Inflict Damage. Which is a single effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I would rather shoot the guards anyway with almost all weapons.

T7 with a 3+/4++ vs T6 with a 3+

The only weapons that would rather shoot the tyrant are str8 D6 dmg weapons. Its a wash with str5 -1 armor weapons or weaker.

It's not JUST tyrants though. It's body guards in general. You can shoot multi wound guns at a Commander or you can target and clear away his drones first. You can target a Cryptek, or his Lychguard.

Core rules page 7 inflict damage section a model loses "1 w for each point of damage"

Therefore 3 damage causes the model to lose 1Wx3 which is resolved through sequencing (but normally makes no difference till we introduce bodyguards)


Also drones are different they have a diferent wording to all the other bodyguards so that is a separate discussion. Essentially they intercept W and there was an argument at one point because of there specific wording about whether that meant successfull W rolls so they would take the whole shot or W resulting from damage I haven't kept up with that and it might have been faqed by now but it's a different case because the wording is different

U02dah4 wrote:
Core rules page 7 inflict damage section a model loses "1 w for each point of damage"

Therefore 3 damage causes the model to lose 1Wx3 which is resolved through sequencing (but normally makes no difference till we introduce bodyguards)

Of they are just simply spelling out that 1 damage is equivalent to 1 wound the model has. As opposed to 2 damage being equal to 1 wound as an example. Pg 5 explicitly tells you to allocate wounds 1 at a time. Nothing tells you to do the same with damage. In fact you have no permission what so ever to treat it that way.

Agree, drones were the odd man out with their wording. Not exactly relevant here how they are all wonky on their own. We can just let that lie and focus on everyone else. Please note I am not being obstinate for the sake of frustrating anyone. I am literally arguing a RAW here and would love to see some actual rules that say otherwise or a FAQ to clear it up. It just seems to me, that it's something everyone has generally been misreading because they are following the FAQ for FNP-likes which arguably have nothing to do with bodyguards.

Permission? "1w for each pt of damage" (sequence of 1w's) not alternate wording such as deduct W from the model equal to the damage which would imply a block.

No where does it say you resolve this as a singuler block

U02dah4 wrote:
Permission? "1w for each pt of damage" (sequence of 1w's) not alternate wording such as deduct W from the model equal to the damage which would imply a block.

No where does it say you resolve this as a singuler block

Sure it does.

5. Inflict Damage: The damage
inflicted is equal to the Damage
characteristic of the weapon used
in the attack. A model loses one
wound for each point of damage
it suffers.

First it tells you the damage inflicted is equal to the characteristic on the weapon. Then it tells you what value damage has in terms of wounds. This is a single step in the single action of shooting a single gun.

Resolving in a nice sequence of one wound for every point of damage it suffers or one step but 1 1w effect per point of damage. A bit like the charge step is only one step but may contain multiple charges.

So I have a further query here - if someone shoots at say a Tyrant with an FNP type effect, does that Tyrant get to take its FNP before it passes off the wound to the Guard? I think regardless of the answer to this the Guard will then get to take their own FNP type saves - even if taking the same rule's save on both models (i.e. the Leviathan trait one).

Benlisted wrote:
So I have a further query here - if someone shoots at say a Tyrant with an FNP type effect, does that Tyrant get to take its FNP before it passes off the wound to the Guard? I think regardless of the answer to this the Guard will then get to take their own FNP type saves - even if taking the same rule's save on both models (i.e. the Leviathan trait one).

Yes, you resolve the attack fully, including FNP effects, because the Tyrant will not trigger the "loses a wound" effect until it's actually lost. You go though all possible mitigation, then when the Tyrant finally loses a wound, you roll to see if the bodyguard turns it into a mortal wound on itself instead.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
So I have a further query here - if someone shoots at say a Tyrant with an FNP type effect, does that Tyrant get to take its FNP before it passes off the wound to the Guard? I think regardless of the answer to this the Guard will then get to take their own FNP type saves - even if taking the same rule's save on both models (i.e. the Leviathan trait one).

Yes, you resolve the attack fully, including FNP effects, because the Tyrant will not trigger the "loses a wound" effect until it's actually lost. You go though all possible mitigation, then when the Tyrant finally loses a wound, you roll to see if the bodyguard turns it into a mortal wound on itself instead.

Thought that was the case, but nice to have the affirmation from someone on the internet thanks!

Leviathan Swarmlord with 6 Tyrant Guard is pretty safe from attacks especially with a malanthrope nearbye.