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Hey guys,

I've been looking at my Space Marines and the battles that I've been playing and lately I've realized that my army really lacks any good melee units. I've got one squad of Vanguard Vets and one squad of Lightning Claw Terminators. Not the greatest.

I need some close combat truck to try a more aggressive type of army. What would people recommend as good melee units for Space Marines to clear out things like Death Guard, punch vehicles like AdMech, and chew up Necron?

For the task you describe, I don't see why vanguards or assult terminators would not work. Maybe try mixing in some thunder hammers and storm shields?

Alternative melee units I can think of would be scouts or assult marines, but those are not well suited against heavy infantry.

You could gear up some captain to become a close combatant.

I recommend something like a 5 man termie squad, 2 claws, 2 hammers, and sarge w/hammer.

Vangurd vets with hammers and shields with Raven guard tactics are a pretty solid choice. Infiltrate them close take your 12 move probably get a 3" charge and whack some moles

I like the redemptor dread armed with both onslaught gatlings. The guns kill the little stuff so it dose not waste time with chaff and the fist can kill most big things.

None. Vanilla Marines melee units are pretty bad across the board. TH Vanguard is way too expensive, double chainsword vanguard lacks oomph and any other melee unit either isn't mobile or choppy enough (or both).

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
None. Vanilla Marines melee units are pretty bad across the board. TH Vanguard is way too expensive, double chainsword vanguard lacks oomph and any other melee unit either isn't mobile or choppy enough (or both).

Didn't they FAQ having multiple weapons that give you an extra attack as only benefitting from one? And yeah most marine options are way more expensive than their Xenos counter parts (Vyper+ land speeder)

Most Sm dedicated assault units suck they pay way to much for their CC abilities. TBH all most everything in the SM codex is kinda over costed from needing to pay for their lack luster CC stats.

TBH, almost none of the marine combat unit are not great in terms of efficient. Vanguard is decent because they are the most mobile SM combat unit and can take basically any combat weapons in marine arsenal. However, they still lack the teeth because they pay 18ppm for only have 2 attacks, the misery is compounded by the fact that if they want to kill those threatening monsters, their best weapons reduced their hit rate..... on average, each is only hitting once. And usually, those monsters are packing inv saves so the Vanguards are even less punchy in this scenario.

Captain with Jump Pack and Lieutenant with Jump Pack, both with Thunder Hammers. They're good units to begin with, and can hit real hard in cc when you need 'em. Bring anything else along to keep them protected. Cann boost with Warlord Trait "Emperors Sword" I think, and/or Might of Heroes. They can also benefit from a couple Stratagems if you need a clutch move.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Captain with Jump Pack and Lieutenant with Jump Pack, both with Thunder Hammers. They're good units to begin with, and can hit real hard in cc when you need 'em. Bring anything else along to keep them protected. Cann boost with Warlord Trait "Emperors Sword" I think, and/or Might of Heroes. They can also benefit from a couple Stratagems if you need a clutch move.

I mean they are ok but they are not worth their cost in CC and each one is only rocking like 4 attacks so your not killing anything with just that 100+ point unit. Also if they live they can leave him tied up in CC meaning he is unable to keep moving with the rest of your stuff so you lose their buff aura.


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After thinking about it some more it seems like that is pretty much every CC unit in the codex they are not that bad. just it is not enough for their cost and most of their stuff that could be in CC would rather not be in CC to guarantee their shooting witch dose more damage.

Honestly your best bet is probably either the Assault Termies or those Vanguard Vets. Space Marines don't have a lot of really killy melee options, which is a bit of a bummer.

Terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields can put a lot of hurt down on heavy infantry like death guard, and so can Vanguard Vets (but they lack some of the durability of the terminators). Alternatively, you can look into something like a Contemptor or a Redemptor Dreadnought. They're relatively slow, but if they get into CC they will crush some people

Captain gets 5 Attacks on the charge with the trait, 6 with the psychic power, double for the fight twice stratagem, or if he dies use the attack again one. If they live they have Fly so they can just leave. They both have a 2+ base to hit, so they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s. Usually wounding on 2s or 3s and rerolling 1s there too.

I like them because I'm buying HQs anyways, and they can do double-duty as CC guys. They're not mass-melee, more if a surgical team that can pull some nasty maneuvers if I use them well.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Captain gets 5 Attacks on the charge with the trait, 6 with the psychic power, double for the fight twice stratagem, or if he dies use the attack again one. If they live they have Fly so they can just leave. They both have a 2+ base to hit, so they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s. Usually wounding on 2s or 3s and rerolling 1s there too.

I like them because I'm buying HQs anyways, and they can do double-duty as CC guys. They're not mass-melee, more if a surgical team that can pull some nasty maneuvers if I use them well.

I mean you spent 219 (282 if you count the Lieutenant) points at least buying this stuff. Then you have a liberian casting a power that has a about a 70% chance of working and just burned your WL trait that could have bein storm of fire plus 3CP. With in return if you are using the thunder hammer you do get 9.3 S10 AP-3 3D hits witch is good at killing tanks and custodians and is ineffective at killing 1 wound things because it is overkill. Not really a winning assault model.

Personally I dont take the Librarian, so the two come in at 200ish. Otherwise I'm spending 150 on them in every army anyways for the buffs. So from my point of view its 50ish points to upgrade them to TH JP models, which gives them much more utility and bite over my minimum purchase when buying a battalion.

I'm mostly shooting 1W models with my army anyways. The 3W on the Hammer is a total clutch ability though. You can change the dynamic of the match real quick with some well placed Thinder Hammer hits.

 Melissia wrote:
I recommend something like a 5 man termie squad, 2 claws, 2 hammers, and sarge w/hammer.

This is probably the most bang for your buck in the vanilla codex. Just avoid chaff at all cost.

 Melissia wrote:
I recommend something like a 5 man termie squad, 2 claws, 2 hammers, and sarge w/hammer.

Termis are bad, avoid them. Fail the charge roll and termis will stand there getting shredded by enemy (overcharged) plasma fire, or other multiwound weapons. 300 pts. wasted. If you make the charge, then yes you will probably kill what you charged, but then the enemy will either focus fire you, or simply ignore you by moving away, because termis are slow.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Captain gets 5 Attacks on the charge with the trait, 6 with the psychic power, double for the fight twice stratagem, or if he dies use the attack again one. If they live they have Fly so they can just leave. They both have a 2+ base to hit, so they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s. Usually wounding on 2s or 3s and rerolling 1s there too.

I like them because I'm buying HQs anyways, and they can do double-duty as CC guys. They're not mass-melee, more if a surgical team that can pull some nasty maneuvers if I use them well.

This is stronger than my Daemon Prince while being cheaper. Am I missing something or why is the DP an auto-include but these SM choices are seen as too weak?

 p5freak wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I recommend something like a 5 man termie squad, 2 claws, 2 hammers, and sarge w/hammer.

Termis are bad, avoid them. Fail the charge roll and termis will stand there getting shredded by enemy (overcharged) plasma fire, or other multiwound weapons. 300 pts. wasted. If you make the charge, then yes you will probably kill what you charged, but then the enemy will either focus fire you, or simply ignore you by moving away, because termis are slow.

The op did not ask what CC Space Marine units are good, the op is asking what the BEST Space Marine unit is for close combat. So if you think that Terminators are not the best melee unit, name a better Space Marine unit for close combat.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Captain gets 5 Attacks on the charge with the trait, 6 with the psychic power, double for the fight twice stratagem, or if he dies use the attack again one. If they live they have Fly so they can just leave. They both have a 2+ base to hit, so they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s. Usually wounding on 2s or 3s and rerolling 1s there too.

I like them because I'm buying HQs anyways, and they can do double-duty as CC guys. They're not mass-melee, more if a surgical team that can pull some nasty maneuvers if I use them well.

This is stronger than my Daemon Prince while being cheaper. Am I missing something or why is the DP an auto-include but these SM choices are seen as too weak?

While a captain with TH and JP is only 114 he needs a librarian (with JP) nearby to buff him which is another 96 (120 with JP). The fight again stratagem is 3 CP, or 2 CP if he dies, to fight again. Usually captains cannot reroll 1s to wound. With TH he hits on 3s, rerolling 1s. The DP hits on 2s, rerolling 1s. Yes, the captain can be buffed significantly, but needs a lot of CP. And he dies quite easily with only T4 and W5. The DP has T6 and W8.




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 BlaxicanX wrote:
The op did not ask what CC Space Marine units are good, the op is asking what the BEST Space Marine unit is for close combat. So if you think that Terminators are not the best melee unit, name a better Space Marine unit for close combat.

Assault termis maybe the best SM CC unit, but they are way to expensive, therefore a bad choice. SM arent good at melee. BA and SW have the best CC units the imperium has to offer.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Captain gets 5 Attacks on the charge with the trait, 6 with the psychic power, double for the fight twice stratagem, or if he dies use the attack again one. If they live they have Fly so they can just leave. They both have a 2+ base to hit, so they're hitting on 3s rerolling 1s. Usually wounding on 2s or 3s and rerolling 1s there too.

I like them because I'm buying HQs anyways, and they can do double-duty as CC guys. They're not mass-melee, more if a surgical team that can pull some nasty maneuvers if I use them well.

This is stronger than my Daemon Prince while being cheaper. Am I missing something or why is the DP an auto-include but these SM choices are seen as too weak?

Daemon Prince have 7 attacks for just taking pair claws and hit with S7 AP-2, While SM Captain only have 4A hitting S8 AP-3 but -1 to hit, he need a WL Trait, a psychic power to gain that 6A. Nowadays S8 is not so much difference from S7 against decently threathening targets, while AP-2 or AP-3 dosen't have great difference either due to 5++/4++ are everywhere on those big targets except for Marines maybe. So the number of attacks the Daemon Prince can throw out is more scary tbh.

You can make the characters really killy, that's not the problem. The problem is that there is no decent melee units to go with them. Furthermore, the units that benefit from their auras most tend to be shooting units, so this incentivises keeping the characters with your gunline.

Melee sucks I wish it didn't as a sw player but it's actually gimping yourself to include terminators or assault squads.

Assault centurions are actually the best melee unit in the codex. how you gonna get them there though. You aint.

I find that CC support for SM is better served by chars, at least this is the way i follow with Dark Angels. SM character are good in CC for the cost.

If you do go for VV, consider not giving everyone a weapon. Gives you a few chumps to take the first few wounds for much fewer points, while not decreasing your damage.

Most of the CC I do with Marines tends to revolve around bullies (if my ASM can find your heavy weapons, yay!), or more of committing the line - where even the Tacs charge in, and HQs behind them. A couple Sarges and a Captain do more than most people realise, especially with Tacs chumping the rebuttle.

Neither of those will eat another CC unit head-to-head, but both are styled on disrupting the opponent first with shooting/maneuvering. To eat CC units head-to-head, you need CC units. Termies are CC units (even Tac Termies). Dreads are, too. ASM and VV are more bullies than CC units.

 p5freak wrote:
Termis are bad, avoid them.

Clearly the problem is you're only using one unit of terminators. I recommend using six units.

Jokes aside, they really aren't bad, you just can't expect to use them like they're jump pack assault units. You need to deploy and use them intelligently.

They suffer from a meta full of plasma. If the meta was bolter heavy or metla heavy, they would be a completely different beast.


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More specifically, the meta is overabundant of anti elite fire, because it doubles quite well as anti tank.

That and they buffed Plas in such a way that it remained just as deadly to Termies despite the buff in durability they got vs anything else.

Marine melee might function as bullies but they aren't priced that way.