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Beware of what you wish for. Unless you play every week, it is so hard to keep up with all the rule changes. It always takes time to get used to a new edition, but now there is so much constantly being changed, anyone else feel the same. I think they should do what they are doing, collect info and keep tweaking the rules and just release updates ever year.

No, what's happening now is what people asked for, for years and years. The game as a whole is in a far better place than its been in a very long time, and the ability to react on shorter timescales stops problems from becoming ingrained

And there will be a point where the rules changes slow down as they narrow in on the best version of the game.

 WindstormSCR wrote:
No, what's happening now is what people asked for, for years and years. The game as a whole is in a far better place than its been in a very long time, and the ability to react on shorter timescales stops problems from becoming ingrained

Just because people have asked doesn't mean it's actually good. Now we have official rules in places large amount(if not majority) don't even read so good luck following it.

I'm fairly active follower and even I have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER am I playing with up to date rules. How many FB comments I have missed? No idea.


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 Crimson Devil wrote:
And there will be a point where the rules changes slow down as they narrow in on the best version of the game.

Seeing GW isn't aiming for balance nope. They are always changing things. So keep on dreaming about slow down.

If you don't believe things will get better why continue?

It's a great time to be alive. I hope all these rule changes keep coming hot!

As long as they make sense.

Would you rather if something becomes accidentally meta cheese that it sticks around for an entire edition?

No?

Exactly.

I think the problem is that the rules are printed in books and then changed online. If everything was done through an app and updated seamlessly therein it would be a fine way of doing it.

On balance I'd rather they do make the effort to change things but it definitely means you have to look around for everything.

I don't mind and actually prefer. It's how a lot of Tabletop RPGs have been going for years. For a lot of games every X amount of time you'd get an errata to fix something that broke due to expansion books. That's a cooperative game. It's even more important in something that's competitive by nature. I've honestly never seen a fanbase that was annoyed that errata came out to attempt to help balance. Worse come to worse and they're terrible after testing them with your group and everyone agrees so, just ignore them if you aren't going to a tournament.

Lesser of two evils.

Evil 1: Unforeseen interactions lead to one or two cheese lists dominating the game for the entire edition, causing people to flounce off, rage, houserule, or switch systems to avoid the ever-increasing cheese.

Evil 2: You sometimes have to learn a new rule.

Take yer pick...

CassianSol wrote:

I think the problem is that the rules are printed in books and then changed online. If everything was done through an app and updated seamlessly therein it would be a fine way of doing it.

On balance I'd rather they do make the effort to change things but it definitely means you have to look around for everything.

It's not so much looking around as it is referencing the FAQ and such on the official site.
I also think that keeping things in print is important, not everyone has a tablet, not everyone wants to spend a chunk of money on a tablet and not everyone remembers to bring/charge their tablet before game-night. Digital aids should be optional aids to the game that are alongside paper/hard copies not a replacement for.


I fully expect that with the updates as they are now GW will eventually release either a M9 rules edition or they'll re-release 8th edition in a new book with new updated lore and photos and with a comprehensive update to the rules including all that's been changed. Ergo instead of big edition changes where almost all the games core mechanics change; well shift to a steady series of changes through an edition which ends with a summary edition.


It is indeed also what gamers have been crying for for years from GW - regular balance updates and addressing core problems beyond "well just roll a dice to decide". Part of that is going to involve new paperwork to track changes and yes an app is going to be updated all the time so there will be a casual level of pressure to encourage people to use digital assets, but not a demand to use them.

What changes are you thinking about? I haven't felt like the pace of change is overwhelming, as long as you're not trying to play every army (and if you're trying to play every army you're probably playing at least once a week).

Like, let's say you play Space Marines. Shortly after your codex, you got a FAQ that didn't change much of anything. Then there were some beta rules that only significantly impacted flyers, and not in a way that a casual list would need to worry about much at all in an Eternal War game. Chapter Approved didn't change much about how the actual rules, just point costs, and those are trivial to keep up with especially if you're using a tool like Battlescribe. And then the April FAQ only significantly impacted your deep-strikers.

It's a bit harder if you're playing soup, but you'd have a lot to keep up with here anyway just because GW is releasing codices so quickly. The FAQs are a tiny part of what you're having to digest every month since every month there's a new Imperium codex you could ally in.

I agree with some others that the only really annoying part of this is that there are just so many documents to keep track of, when really there should be a single source for the main rulebook and then for each codex which is kept up to date. The hard part of playing is when you want to look up a basic rule, so you go to the rulebook and find it, but then also have to check 3 or 4 different FAQs to see if any of them changed it.

I love the current system. Keeps the game evolving.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
If you don't believe things will get better why continue?

Dude, I'm normally in agreement with you in most things. But you're better than that, don't wheel out that old chestnut please. You know exactly why many a gamer continues to stick with a certain system despite them disliking aspects of it.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
If you don't believe things will get better why continue?

Dude, I'm normally in agreement with you in most things. But you're better than that, don't wheel out that old chestnut please. You know exactly why many a gamer continues to stick with a certain system despite them disliking aspects of it.

Prrrrecious modelsessss.....

 Eldarsif wrote:
I love the current system. Keeps the game evolving.

This is fine, until a couple of years time when I need to buy a new rulebook and set of codices.

I already have hundreds of pounds (formerly) worth of books taking up a shelf that are now just doorstops.

If you're in any sort of tabletop gaming, you should expect to occasionally have to buy new rules. Free online rules are still the exception rather norm.

It's not the number of rules that's the issue, it's the way they're published.

Errata, FAQs and beta rules should all be published online, accessible through an app.
Then CA should pull together all the official rule updates from the previous year.

That wouldn't change GW's business model or the frequency of updates, but it would see the end of all the scrappy PDFs, and gamers could own a complete copy of the rules by buying CA each year.

tneva82 wrote:

 WindstormSCR wrote:
No, what's happening now is what people asked for, for years and years. The game as a whole is in a far better place than its been in a very long time, and the ability to react on shorter timescales stops problems from becoming ingrained

Just because people have asked doesn't mean it's actually good. Now we have official rules in places large amount(if not majority) don't even read so good luck following it.

I'm fairly active follower and even I have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER am I playing with up to date rules. How many FB comments I have missed? No idea.


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 Crimson Devil wrote:
And there will be a point where the rules changes slow down as they narrow in on the best version of the game.

Seeing GW isn't aiming for balance nope. They are always changing things. So keep on dreaming about slow down.

There is already slowdown from early in the edition. Once all the codices are out it will slow down even more. We will see new releases and bi-annual FAQs, hardly tough to keep up.

CassianSol wrote:

I think the problem is that the rules are printed in books and then changed online. If everything was done through an app and updated seamlessly therein it would be a fine way of doing it.

On balance I'd rather they do make the effort to change things but it definitely means you have to look around for everything.

The problem is that I don't like e-books or having to bring my laptop to play a game. In fact, I know few people who do.

Is it that hard to print out an FAQ and tuck in in the front cover of it's associated rulebook? Also, considering that the codex FAQ's are cumulative, you only need to put the most recent one in. CA is kind of obnoxious, though, they should really have printable-pages with all the up-to-date points costs.

 deathwinguk wrote:
It's not the number of rules that's the issue, it's the way they're published.

Errata, FAQs and beta rules should all be published online, accessible through an app.
Then CA should pull together all the official rule updates from the previous year.

That wouldn't change GW's business model or the frequency of updates, but it would see the end of all the scrappy PDFs, and gamers could own a complete copy of the rules by buying CA each year.

I strongly suspect this is what will happen with CA 2018.... at least, I hope so, anyway. The potential annoyance for me is if they drop 9th in the next couple of years, and then I need to buy all this stuff again.

I really need to ebay all my 7th books in bulk... :/

The core rules change from edition to edition.
Dont know what the intention is behind this.
However, the rule set in 8th ed is the smallest we've seen so far.
The rule set misses deepness and the game feels more like a board game (without maneuvering and less cover).

zerosignal wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I love the current system. Keeps the game evolving.

This is fine, until a couple of years time when I need to buy a new rulebook and set of codices.

I already have hundreds of pounds (formerly) worth of books taking up a shelf that are now just doorstops.

I have books going back to 2nd edition and I feel no grudge towards that collection. If anything it's a testament to years and years of enjoyment in a hobby I enjoy.

However, for people who are tired of owning too many books I would say that digital codices will be more up their alley. I myself am thinking of moving to digital for some of the tertiary armies I have(I will, however, always buy all Aeldari codices in physical form)

They are only rules changing twice a year now that’s good enough. You can survive 6 months with a big rules faq with little points changes and a big point change faq with little rules changes every year.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Would you rather if something becomes accidentally meta cheese that it sticks around for an entire edition?

No?

Exactly.

That could be an exception to the rule, but seriously look how many FAQ's and amendments there are, its impossible to memories them all, especially when you collect pretty much every faction like myself.


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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

CassianSol wrote:

I think the problem is that the rules are printed in books and then changed online. If everything was done through an app and updated seamlessly therein it would be a fine way of doing it.

On balance I'd rather they do make the effort to change things but it definitely means you have to look around for everything.

The problem is that I don't like e-books or having to bring my laptop to play a game. In fact, I know few people who do.

Is it that hard to print out an FAQ and tuck in in the front cover of it's associated rulebook? Also, considering that the codex FAQ's are cumulative, you only need to put the most recent one in. CA is kind of obnoxious, though, they should really have printable-pages with all the up-to-date points costs.

you still have to remember all the rules that have change to revert back to a print out of the FAQ. Are you going to check the FAQ every time you use a rule? I think not.

It's always been impossible to memorize the rules for Warhammer. At least for the average person.

But still its a far cry from the complexity of many DnD editions

 Overread wrote:
It's always been impossible to memorize the rules for Warhammer. At least for the average person.

But still its a far cry from the complexity of many DnD editions

I'd only look to the rulebook for rules I rarely use, and I'm as dumb as a bag of rocks, it seems I've always got my nose buried in it now.

Part of that may be that from 3rd-7th, there was a continuity of rules and most of the changes were made on the periphery of the rule set. 8th is a completely different game almost from the ground up. SO changes to it may seem like more of a burden. Also with a lot of down time on each new release it gave the game time to breath. I think once the end of the codex release cycle comes you will find it a bit easier to keep up with the 1 or 2 changes they make every 6 month.

Nope keep the rule changes coming. I'd much rather have constant rules tweaks/changes then go years before things get balanced.

My only hope is that eventually, they release an updated 8th 2.0 which includes all rules changes up to that point. I do think this is the direction they are going towards. But either way, keep the tweaks and changes coming.

If you only casually follow the changes then the chances are missing tweaks isn't going to effect your games much anyway so don't worry about it.