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May as well create a list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex.

Obviously none of this will come true.

Weapons
Heavy Venom Cannon - 42" range, up from 36"
Fleshborer - 18" range, up from 12"
Deathspitters - 36" range, up from 24"
Scything/monstrous scything Talons - Now stack beyond 1 additional pair. Two pairs of scything talons = +2 attacks, for example, 3 pairs = +3. Currently they give 1 attack regardless of the number of pairs.
Monstrous Scything Talons - Increase AP to -4
Rupture Cannon - Damage rolls of 1 or 2 deal 3 damage instead of their normal role
Tyranid Monsters can shoot twice if they move less than half of their move characteristic (grinding advance for Tyranids)

Models
Tyranid Warriors - 3+ base save, up from 4+
The Swarmlord - Price decrease to 250 points
Hive Tyrant with Wings - Undo the price increase on wings. Rule of 3 was enough.
Broodlord - Price drop to 115 points
Neurothrope - Price drop to 50 points or increase synapse to 18"
Termagants - Base 5+ save
Hormagants - Base 5+ save
Gargoyles - Base 5+ save
Tervigon - Spawns termagants OR hormagants within 12"; 3+ invulnerable save
Exocrine / Tyrannofx - drop in price by 50 points (look at tau vehicles, they are dirt cheap and way stronger)

Powers
Dominion - All units within 36" of the caster are under the effect of synapse.
Onslaught - In addition to its benefits, the models can add +1 inch to their charge.
Paroxysm - Unit fights last. If the unit is not in combat it cannot charge.
The Horror - Unit cannot shoot for a turn rather than -1 to hit.

Warlord Traits
Adaptive Biology - Change to +1 toughness
Alien Cunning - Model can redeploy with infiltrate rules, essentially anywhere outside of 12" or 9" line of sight, and at the same time as rangers, etc.
Synaptic Lynchpin - make this double synapse range.
Mind Eater - Instead of kill a character, make it kills a model. or just delete it entirely. I don't care.

Relics
Ymgarl Factor - Just let us pick one of the three and have it be a permanent effect. Rolling for a bonus in combat is so stupid.

Hive Fleets
Since hydra is basically lame because everything costs reinforcements, change this so that bodies can be replenished to wounded squads. 1D6 healed wounds per troop squad at the end of the morale phase after casualties, returning slain models similar to AOS death.

A lot of wishlisting. Woo

Only thing I disagree with is Warriors dropping to a 3+ and the Gaunts being 5+s and the change to The Horror.

Isn't the Tyranid Prime a 3+? If not, he should be.

I disagree on the Gaunts since there's a Hive Fleet that grants Cover to non-Flying units and Venomthropes exist. If those two things didn't exist--I'd be more amenable to it.
I'm totally down for price drops on them though.

The Horror..."not shooting" is a big deal. I can't think of a whole lot that just flatout denies it. I'd make it so that there's a Stratagem that can make units affected by "The Horror" not be able to shoot or something like that.

Venomthropes are solid but targetable by anything as they are not characters, and have a 5+ save, T4. I run them but they always die turn 1, without fail.

Jormungandr only grants cover if you don't advance or charge, and does not grant it to fly.

I would prefer that points on those troops not drop, because the game has enough bodies on the table at 2k.

The Tyranid prime is fine, he isn't targetable. The bigger problem is that warriors kind of suck.

Bring back Shrikes!

SG

 Marmatag wrote:
Venomthropes are solid but targetable by anything as they are not characters, and have a 5+ save, T4. I run them but they always die turn 1, without fail.

Easy fix for this one without needing to even give them "Character"...just make it so that they get an untargetable trait when the brood is near friendly units.

Jormungandr only grants cover if you don't advance or charge, and does not grant it to fly.

I'm aware that it doesn't grant it to Fly. That's why I said it grants Cover to non-Flying units...
I did recall the Charge/Advance part--and I still think that's a fair trade. The Tau Sept that gets the same thing has to remain stationary to get the trait.

I would prefer that points on those troops not drop, because the game has enough bodies on the table at 2k.

Welcome to why I want Guard Infantry Squads retooled entirely rather than just points tweaked?

From what I've seen/read regarding the little scuttlers, they pay a decent premium for some of their upgrades/weapons right? That's where I'd be down for the price drops on them.

The Tyranid prime is fine, he isn't targetable. The bigger problem is that warriors kind of suck.

Warriors could benefit from the same kind of thing as Venomthropes--untargetable while near friendly units.

Make sniper weapons have a place against Tyranids and boost Tyranids at the same time! Win/win!

 Kanluwen wrote:
Only thing I disagree with is Warriors dropping to a 3+ and the Gaunts being 5+s.

Isn't the Tyranid Prime a 3+? If not, he should be.

I disagree on the Gaunts since there's a Hive Fleet that grants Cover to non-Flying units and Venomthropes exist. If those two things didn't exist--I'd be more amenable to it.

I'm totally down for price drops on them though.

I think it's totally reasonable for perfectly adapted killing machines covered in bone plating to have equal armor to a pathetic human being wearing kevlar. Just to think of some examples. We have in starcraft - a zergling is actually tougher than a marine wearing a giant space suit. Also in the alien series we have the xenomorphs being practically indestructible - they have a lot in common with hormagants. Then there is starship troopers where your standard bug is absolutely horrifically tough and deadly.

It's actually quite immersion breaking to me when nid troops are this weak.

Venos - You need to decide what they are. Are they shenanigany buffers who are really hard to eliminate, or are they scary buffers who must die first. In the former case, character protections make a certain amount of sense. Or some LOS-like ability to pass hits to other models. If it's the second, then of course they die turn 1 - them not dying turn 1 should mean you win. The former can't have as strong buffs as the latter. Which is it? Which should it be?

Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

So basically, you're admitting to trying to troll rather than engage in productive discussion?

You'll note that I didn't come in here ranting about how OP things would be despite you and Marmatag doing exactly that in other threads. Show some courtesy.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

So basically, you're admitting to trying to troll?

He can't be serious that tyranid monsters get to shoot twice. This is insane. It is obviously a joke.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

Is it possible for you to engage in a discussion without bringing up IG when they aren't the topic? Seriously though can you show me on the model where the IG touched you

Oh, and while we're on this subject...

I'd keep the price on wings but add an option for a Swarmlord with Wings.

It seems fitting, it'd add another option for Flyrants and it'd be another good use of the kit.
Crazy Good? Maybe not. It'd look awesome though.

Asmodios wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

Is it possible for you to engage in a discussion without bringing up IG when they aren't the topic? Seriously though can you show me on the model where the IG touched you

It seems you are without humor here. It's actually a pretty funny joke. Plus they were brought up in the topic "grinding advance rule"

 Xenomancers wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

Is it possible for you to engage in a discussion without bringing up IG when they aren't the topic? Seriously though can you show me on the model where the IG touched you

It seems you are without humor here. It's actually a pretty funny joke. Plus they were brought up in the topic "grinding advance rule"

I can just see you waking up screaming in the middle of the night plagued by nightmares of the IG codex crushing everything in its path

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

So basically, you're admitting to trying to troll?

He can't be serious that tyranid monsters get to shoot twice. This is insane. It is obviously a joke.

They already do shoot twice if they don't move... and they're still not viable because T7 3+ dies in seconds to shooting armies (like Tau / Guard / Eldar).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
Venos - You need to decide what they are. Are they shenanigany buffers who are really hard to eliminate, or are they scary buffers who must die first. In the former case, character protections make a certain amount of sense. Or some LOS-like ability to pass hits to other models. If it's the second, then of course they die turn 1 - them not dying turn 1 should mean you win. The former can't have as strong buffs as the latter. Which is it? Which should it be?

I did not propose changes to venomthropes. I think they're fine how they are, but people need to understand they are designed to buy you essentially a turn of slightly reduced firepower from your opponent. I put them in to help me survive going second against Imperial Guard artillery.

They would 100% be too strong if they had the character keyword. I would *love* this change but I can't support it in good conscience.

 Marmatag wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Venos - You need to decide what they are. Are they shenanigany buffers who are really hard to eliminate, or are they scary buffers who must die first. In the former case, character protections make a certain amount of sense. Or some LOS-like ability to pass hits to other models. If it's the second, then of course they die turn 1 - them not dying turn 1 should mean you win. The former can't have as strong buffs as the latter. Which is it? Which should it be?

I did not propose changes to venomthropes. I think they're fine how they are, but people need to understand they are designed to buy you essentially a turn of slightly reduced firepower from your opponent. I put them in to help me survive going second against Imperial Guard artillery.

They would 100% be too strong if they had the character keyword. I would *love* this change but I can't support it in good conscience.

That's why I'm 100% for them being untargetable within a certain range of a friendly unit or being able to pass hits off. I know what they're supposed to do and how they're supposed to do it--but I'd be down for modifying it to be slightly more robust.

Right now, it's units "wholly within" for the buff right?

Make it so that shots having to go past Tyranid broods to target the Venomthropes or things behind them are at a -2 to be hit while the units in front are at a -1 to be hit.

Or hell, it could even be a ranged based thing. The closer you are, the easier it is to hit things--but at longer ranges it's going to be a bigger modifier.

No, it is not wholly within. That's why they're dead turn 1, and also why making them characters or under character rules would be too strong.

 Marmatag wrote:
No, it is not wholly within. That's why they're dead turn 1, and also why making them characters or under character rules would be too strong.

Swap it to "wholly within", make the modifier scaling a bit(-2 to hit rolls for things behind/directly on top of the Venomthropes, -1 to hit for things in front), give Venomthropes a stratagem like this(unless they already have one):

Sporesplosion!(working title)2 CP:
Until your next turn, a single unit of Venomthropes is treated as Characters for targeting purposes. They cannot move, advance, or pile in.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
No, it is not wholly within. That's why they're dead turn 1, and also why making them characters or under character rules would be too strong.

Swap it to "wholly within", make the modifier scaling a bit(-2 to hit rolls for things behind/directly on top of the Venomthropes, -1 to hit for things in front), give Venomthropes a stratagem like this(unless they already have one):

Sporesplosion!(working title)2 CP:
Until your next turn, a single unit of Venomthropes is treated as Characters for targeting purposes. They cannot move, advance, or pile in.

Making it wholly within would ruin them. We run so many models that this would effectively render them worthless!

The ability to give them a defensive boost would be something to consider. But, if it costs 2CP we can't afford it. Tyranids don't have a way to recoup lost CP on a roll. We have 1 way to do it and it is horribly unreliable.

But regardless, Venomthropes aren't a problem with the codex. It's the fact that we get obliterated from range without the ability to counter attack. Preserving a -1 to hit doesn't do much when a lot of shooting has an effective BS much higher than 3+ or 2+ when you factor in access to rerolls.

People spam hive guard because we can hide and shoot, without getting torn apart in seconds by the ridiculous guns that exist in other codexes. Carnifex see play also because they are relatively cheap for what they are, but they're not good enough to carry the codex. They're essentially cheaper, less accurate dreadnoughts with far less HQ synergy.

Would Venomthropes getting the "act as individuals" treatment and a pseudo-character protection be too much you think?


I'm genuinely not sure too much with Tyranids, as I don't run into them much locally. Nobody who played them previously has stayed in or those who have just spam bodies.

 Marmatag wrote:
May as well create a list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex.

Obviously none of this will come true.

Weapons
Heavy Venom Cannon - 42" range, up from 36" Disagree, Tyranids are designed to go from mid range to close combat. Increasing the range of the weapons would make the faction lose character
Fleshborer - 18" range, up from 12" Like above, but in this case i can agree, 12" is indeed too short.
Deathspitters - 36" range, up from 24" They were already increased to 24", those guns are originally short ranged, let's not make them into long ranged guns.
Scything/monstrous scything Talons - Now stack beyond 1 additional pair. Two pairs of scything talons = +2 attacks, for example, 3 pairs = +3. Currently they give 1 attack regardless of the number of pairs. I'm cool with this, Trygons need a bit more punch after all
Monstrous Scything Talons - Increase AP to -4 Did you meant massive instead of monstrous? In that case i agree, right now there is close to no difference between the monstrous and massive versions
Rupture Cannon - Damage rolls of 1 or 2 deal 3 damage instead of their normal role Agree, that model costs a lot and has too few shots to be that random.
Tyranid Monsters can shoot twice if they move less than half of their move characteristic (grinding advance for Tyranids) Not at the current cost, fexes shooting 24 deathspitters attacks at the current cost would melt the meta

Models
Tyranid Warriors - 3+ base save, up from 4+ Would require a cost increase, right now they are already quite durable for the points
The Swarmlord - Price decrease to 250 points I would have said 260, but in general i agree
Hive Tyrant with Wings - Undo the price increase on wings. Rule of 3 was enough. The current cost of flyrants is perfectly fine. They are still taken in 100% of the lists, that doesn't look like an overcosted unit
Broodlord - Price drop to 115 points The broodlord is overcosted, but at 115 is really too much of a beatistick while being a psyker and an hidden synapse. Sure he is frail, but he cannot cost less than 140
Neurothrope - Price drop to 50 points or increase synapse to 18" Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but the neurothrope is the cheapest lvl 2 psyker currently in the game, while sporting T4 and 3++, rerolling 1's to cast and self healing. No he is fine. Actually, don't be surprpised if he sees the cost bumped to 80 in the next CA
Termagants - Base 5+ save Not at 4 ppm, internet would explode
Hormagants - Base 5+ save I'm not sure on this one. Hormagaunts don't feel particularly lacking right now, they need just a tiny little buff to be worth 5 ppm, but even like this they are fine
Gargoyles - Base 5+ save Would have a meaning only if the 2 above suggestions are also applied. Since i don't agree with those i disagree also with this. In general our gaunt troops and our flying gants are lacking in offensive stats, not on armor. More on this at the end
Tervigon - Spawns termagants OR hormagants within 12"; 3+ invulnerable save Yes please.
Exocrine / Tyrannofx - drop in price by 50 points (look at tau vehicles, they are dirt cheap and way stronger) These models require a couple more wounds each, but the cost is fine as it is

Powers
Dominion - All units within 36" of the caster are under the effect of synapse. And yet would still be useless. I would also increase to 36" the caster's disperion range
Onslaught - In addition to its benefits, the models can add +1 inch to their charge. Ok, but it doesn't stack with adrenal glands
Paroxysm - Unit fights last. If the unit is not in combat it cannot charge. Ok, here you are not being serious
The Horror - Unit cannot shoot for a turn rather than -1 to hit. Idem

Warlord Traits
Adaptive Biology - Change to +1 toughness Loses flavor, but indeed that trait needs a bit more influence on the game
Alien Cunning - Model can redeploy with infiltrate rules, essentially anywhere outside of 12" or 9" line of sight, and at the same time as rangers, etc. There is no reason for this one
Synaptic Lynchpin - make this double synapse range. Doubling the amount on a tyrant makes it 36", which is too much.
Mind Eater - Instead of kill a character, make it kills a model. or just delete it entirely. I don't care. No one cares indeed, that trait needs a redesign.

Relics
Ymgarl Factor - Just let us pick one of the three and have it be a permanent effect. Rolling for a bonus in combat is so stupid. Random stuff has a place in the game, but it needs to be incisive with it's randomic effects. I would double the effects of every result instead of making them fixed

Hive Fleets
Since hydra is basically lame because everything costs reinforcements, change this so that bodies can be replenished to wounded squads. 1D6 healed wounds per troop squad at the end of the morale phase after casualties, returning slain models similar to AOS death. Reinforcement points just need to be redesigned. In the end AoS removed them, so the same will likely happen to 40K.

A lot of wishlisting. Woo A lot indeed, but i would like to add the following to the list:
If fleshborers range is increased to 18" then spinefists should become assault 2 (they were a twinlinked weapon after all).
Toxins on hormagaunts should cost 1 point not 2.
Lictors cost increased to 50 and the attack stat increased to 4
Deathleaper attack stat increased to 5
Ripper cost increased by 1
Hive guard squad limit moved to 3 (they are overshadowing too many other choices right now with the double shooting stratagem)
Tyrant guard attacks stat increased to 3
Monstrous rending claws costed at 20 points
Toxicrene does not lose attacks with wounds and massive toxic lashes damage (both versions) increased to 3
Pyrovores attack stat increased to 3
Harpy and Chrone wounds increased to 15 (seriously, those things are huge. It's ok that they are easy to hit and easy to wound, but at least for that cost make them capable of absorbing a good amount of fire)
Gargoyles always wound on 4+ in melee (6+ against vehicles)
Warrior prime cost reduced by 15 points
Mucolid spores moved to 15 points
Spore mines can be targeted only if they are the closest model (who thought that at 10ppm a slow melee only T1 no save model could work?)
Tyrannocite can transport multiple units or pays less for its guns
Haruspex cost reduced to 165
Carnifex bioplasma reduced to 5 points
Screamer killer base cost reduced to 80 points
Thornback inflicts mortal wounds on 3+ instead of 4+
Barbed strangler strenght increased to 6
Stranglerthorn cannon damage reduced to 1 AP increased to -2 and attacks increased to 2d6
Death frenzy stratagem, the model attacks as if it had half it's wounds remaining.
Hyper toxicity, change effect to +1 to wound
.

Commented your wishlist and added mine. In general i made a lot of small changes to unused units to better the internal codex balance (which honestly isn't bad as it is) and reigned in some of the biggest abuses of our codex (MRC and double shooting hive guards).
I'm fairly sure that some of your suggestions were jabs directed somewhere else, in any case, i took everything at face value with the comments.

At the end of these changes, the nids should be right about where they are now as far as external balance, just with more options.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Would Venomthropes getting the "act as individuals" treatment and a pseudo-character protection be too much you think?


I'm genuinely not sure too much with Tyranids, as I don't run into them much locally. Nobody who played them previously has stayed in or those who have just spam bodies.

Leave venoms as they are, they are fine. For 90 points they screen a good portion of your army and are deceptively hard to take down.

We agree in a lot of spots and also disagree a bit.

I don't feel Tyranids are balanced relative to the field.

Without Hive Guard, Tyranids are firmly a bottom tier codex.

After the Flyrant nerf, Tyranids disappeared for good reason. While the codex is varied and interesting, it doesn't play well relative to stronger armies like Guard, Tau, Custodes, Knights, and general Chaos.

This is the list I sent to GW:

Exocrines and Tyrannofexes. These both suffer one huge limitation that are going to keep them out of most armies. If you get into close combat with them, they can’t do the one thing they do well.
My Proposal: Both of these units have a form of the “Gun Beast” rule. That means they face massive penalties for moving and shooting. Why not allow them to leave combat and still shoot?

Hive Guard overshadow Exocrines and Tyrannofexes. Besides the issue above, the main reason for this is that Exocrines and Tyrannofexes can’t use the Single Minded Annihilation stratagem. Theoretically this is offset by access to the Pathogenic Slime stratagem. But in practice that isn’t a reasonable trade.
My Proposal: Change Pathogenic Slime to:
“Use this stratagem before you shoot a TYRANID MONSTER. For the rest of the shooting phase, DOUBLE the damage of its attacks.”
Coda: This also has the effect of making rupture cannons useful.

Carnifexes: Their shooting is fine (actually pretty good), but their close combat is very streaky and dependent on getting the charge off. I have so many ideas on how to fix them, so here are a few. I figure you pick 2 of them.
Proposal 1: Give them a 3+ WS. This way, someone somewhere might at some point consider taking crushing claws on a Carnifex.
Proposal 2: Living Battering Ram: Roll a dice. On a 1 nothing happens, and a 2-5 all enemy units within 1” take a mortal wound. On a 6 all enemy units within 1” take D3 mortal wounds. (Old One Eye should be 1, D3, D6) (Thornback’s Chitin Thorns should be on a 4+)
Proposal 3: Give them a stratagem:
Renewed Assault (1 CP):
“Use this stratagem at the start of your Fight Phase. Every CARNIFEX in your army that is within 1” of an enemy unit is treated as if it charged this turn”

Screamer Killers: A normal Carnifex can be kitted out to be significantly more effective.
My Proposal: Give them a 10” move.

Tervigon: It is hilariously overpriced. I don’t understand how each edition seems to start with pumping up the price of Tervigons and Tyranid primes to a level where they are easily out competed by other tyranid options.
My Proposal: Drop from 225 all the way down to 180. I’m not sure if that is quite enough. You might have to go down to 150 before people will consider using it.

Broodlord: The brood lord is good, but expensive and has durability problems.
My Proposal: Drop him to 150 points, and give him a 4++ invul.

Deathleaper / Lictors / Tyranid Prime / Tyrant Guard They don’t hit nearly hard enough in close combat.
My Proposal: Give them Monstrous Rending Claws, Lictors should have a 4+ save and toughness 5.

Haruspex: I like the idea here, but it just simply isn’t fast / killy / durable / points efficient enough to compete with other units in the codex.
My Proposal: 10” move, 18 wounds, 3+ WS, and 165 points.

Maleceptor: Gone are the days where this units rules made it the worst unit available to any codex. But it is still subpar when compared to basically any other unit that Tyranids have.
My Proposal: 140 points base (150 to field), let it use psychic overload in addition to casting normal powers.

Toxicrene / Trygon / Trygon Prime / Harpy / Crone They aren’t durable enough to do what they need to do. They are huge models that are awkward to transport and play with, so I’d rather make them more durable than cheaper.
My Proposal: Give them 18 wounds.

As a Tyranid player I honestly think the biggest change that will see the biggest impact is to allow Monstrous Creatures to assault models above ground floor in ruins and such.

That and assault through ruined walls.

The biggest issue is that a lot of our big gribbly heavy hitters can be neutralised by standing on a big pile of rocks.

 Marmatag wrote:
We agree in a lot of spots and also disagree a bit.

I don't feel Tyranids are balanced relative to the field.

Without Hive Guard, Tyranids are firmly a bottom tier codex.

After the Flyrant nerf, Tyranids disappeared for good reason. While the codex is varied and interesting, it doesn't play well relative to stronger armies like Guard, Tau, Custodes, Knights, and general Chaos.

We are coming at this with different aims.

Nids are a mid tier army and i want them to stay there. If something is in an upper tier, you don't want fix that by increasing the average power level of the other factions, but by decreasing the level of high tier factions.

Ideally everything should be mid tier.

 Marmatag wrote:
May as well create a list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex.

Obviously none of this will come true.

Weapons
Heavy Venom Cannon - 42" range, up from 36"
Fleshborer - 18" range, up from 12"
Deathspitters - 36" range, up from 24"
Scything/monstrous scything Talons - Now stack beyond 1 additional pair. Two pairs of scything talons = +2 attacks, for example, 3 pairs = +3. Currently they give 1 attack regardless of the number of pairs.
Monstrous Scything Talons - Increase AP to -4
Rupture Cannon - Damage rolls of 1 or 2 deal 3 damage instead of their normal role
Tyranid Monsters can shoot twice if they move less than half of their move characteristic (grinding advance for Tyranids)

Models
Tyranid Warriors - 3+ base save, up from 4+
The Swarmlord - Price decrease to 250 points
Hive Tyrant with Wings - Undo the price increase on wings. Rule of 3 was enough.
Broodlord - Price drop to 115 points
Neurothrope - Price drop to 50 points or increase synapse to 18"
Termagants - Base 5+ save
Hormagants - Base 5+ save
Gargoyles - Base 5+ save
Tervigon - Spawns termagants OR hormagants within 12"; 3+ invulnerable save
Exocrine / Tyrannofx - drop in price by 50 points (look at tau vehicles, they are dirt cheap and way stronger)

Powers
Dominion - All units within 36" of the caster are under the effect of synapse.
Onslaught - In addition to its benefits, the models can add +1 inch to their charge.
Paroxysm - Unit fights last. If the unit is not in combat it cannot charge.
The Horror - Unit cannot shoot for a turn rather than -1 to hit.

Warlord Traits
Adaptive Biology - Change to +1 toughness
Alien Cunning - Model can redeploy with infiltrate rules, essentially anywhere outside of 12" or 9" line of sight, and at the same time as rangers, etc.
Synaptic Lynchpin - make this double synapse range.
Mind Eater - Instead of kill a character, make it kills a model. or just delete it entirely. I don't care.

Relics
Ymgarl Factor - Just let us pick one of the three and have it be a permanent effect. Rolling for a bonus in combat is so stupid.

Hive Fleets
Since hydra is basically lame because everything costs reinforcements, change this so that bodies can be replenished to wounded squads. 1D6 healed wounds per troop squad at the end of the morale phase after casualties, returning slain models similar to AOS death.

A lot of wishlisting. Woo

I'd settle for BS 3+ while within 8 inches of a synapse creature

 Marmatag wrote:
May as well create a list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex.

Obviously none of this will come true.

Weapons
Heavy Venom Cannon - 42" range, up from 36" No, 36" is fine b.c they are assault, you can ran and fire still
Fleshborer - 18" range, up from 12" We have spike rifles, this means you need to change bothl
Deathspitters - 36" range, up from 24" Again, its assualt
Scything/monstrous scything Talons - Now stack beyond 1 additional pair. Two pairs of scything talons = +2 attacks, for example, 3 pairs = +3. Currently they give 1 attack regardless of the number of pairs.
Monstrous Scything Talons - Increase AP to -4 They are power swords but better, we dont need them -4ap
Rupture Cannon - Damage rolls of 1 or 2 deal 3 damage instead of their normal role
Tyranid Monsters can shoot twice if they move less than half of their move characteristic (grinding advance for Tyranids) This is way to OP, No and no, you will only see HVC Tyrants, Fex's T-fex, etc.. The "titan" models should have it tho

Models
Tyranid Warriors - 3+ base save, up from 4+ No, have extend carapace like they should have and are on the spurs, 3-4pts for +1 armor
The Swarmlord - Price decrease to 250 points This im fine
Hive Tyrant with Wings - Undo the price increase on wings. Rule of 3 was enough. many things needs to be changed due to Ro3
Broodlord - Price drop to 115 points That might to to low, 125-130pts sounds better
Neurothrope - Price drop to 50 points or increase synapse to 18" Oh god no, he already is well priced for what it does
Termagants - Base 5+ save Im fine with this
Hormagants - Base 5+ save
Gargoyles - Base 5+ save Needs 1pt decrease
Tervigon - Spawns termagants OR hormagants within 12"; 3+ invulnerable save No, its always been for Tgants and still should be, i'd rather it just go down in price to 185pts base
Exocrine / Tyrannofx - drop in price by 50 points (look at tau vehicles, they are dirt cheap and way stronger) Agree

Powers Powers are fine for Nids, powers for nids are supportive and not suppose to be powerful
Dominion - All units within 36" of the caster are under the effect of synapse.
Onslaught - In addition to its benefits, the models can add +1 inch to their charge.
Paroxysm - Unit fights last. If the unit is not in combat it cannot charge.
The Horror - Unit cannot shoot for a turn rather than -1 to hit.

Warlord Traits
Adaptive Biology - Change to +1 toughness No, just give it -1 to wound always, its better than +1T and thats what is is now
Alien Cunning - Model can redeploy with infiltrate rules, essentially anywhere outside of 12" or 9" line of sight, and at the same time as rangers, etc. Should be Warlord +D3 Infantry units like Necrons
Synaptic Lynchpin - make this double synapse range.
Mind Eater - Instead of kill a character, make it kills a model. or just delete it entirely. I don't care. No, this can be very strong, you can move into, a Flyrant can use it on himself and jump over and get ready for another charge, you THEN can use double attack stratagem to fight again if you didnt charge that turn, (Hero Intervention 1st, then Mind Eater then Strat, then fight again) Behemoth loves doing this

Relics
Ymgarl Factor - Just let us pick one of the three and have it be a permanent effect. Rolling for a bonus in combat is so stupid. Should be pick 1 per turn

Hive Fleets
Since hydra is basically lame because everything costs reinforcements, change this so that bodies can be replenished to wounded squads. 1D6 healed wounds per troop squad at the end of the morale phase after casualties, returning slain models similar to AOS death. You talking about what here? The relic is a Deathspiiter, the WL is Regen on 6+ and the fleet is re-roll hits for hordes

A lot of wishlisting. Woo

Tyranids IMO is in a really good spot, besides about 6-7 units needing a points balance (Harpy/Crone, and all the big MC no one takes, finally BL/WP) and fix the Gant/Goyl problem.

Sporefield should be free units or 1CP, as the FW spores literally HAVE the Stratagem as a rule and are actually cheaper.......

PS: Tyrannocyte is ungodly over costed for 1 MC or 1 infantry unit, a Trygon is a few points more and can do the same thing other than MC, it really needs to be 75pts base (thats 21pts less)

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
May as well create a list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex.

Obviously none of this will come true.

Weapons
Heavy Venom Cannon - 42" range, up from 36" No, 36" is fine b.c they are assault, you can ran and fire still
Fleshborer - 18" range, up from 12" We have spike rifles, this means you need to change bothl
Deathspitters - 36" range, up from 24" Again, its assualt
Scything/monstrous scything Talons - Now stack beyond 1 additional pair. Two pairs of scything talons = +2 attacks, for example, 3 pairs = +3. Currently they give 1 attack regardless of the number of pairs.
Monstrous Scything Talons - Increase AP to -4 They are power swords but better, we dont need them -4ap
Rupture Cannon - Damage rolls of 1 or 2 deal 3 damage instead of their normal role
Tyranid Monsters can shoot twice if they move less than half of their move characteristic (grinding advance for Tyranids) This is way to OP, No and no, you will only see HVC Tyrants, Fex's T-fex, etc.. The "titan" models should have it tho

Models
Tyranid Warriors - 3+ base save, up from 4+ No, have extend carapace like they should have and are on the spurs, 3-4pts for +1 armor
The Swarmlord - Price decrease to 250 points This im fine
Hive Tyrant with Wings - Undo the price increase on wings. Rule of 3 was enough. many things needs to be changed due to Ro3
Broodlord - Price drop to 115 points That might to to low, 125-130pts sounds better
Neurothrope - Price drop to 50 points or increase synapse to 18" Oh god no, he already is well priced for what it does
Termagants - Base 5+ save Im fine with this
Hormagants - Base 5+ save
Gargoyles - Base 5+ save Needs 1pt decrease
Tervigon - Spawns termagants OR hormagants within 12"; 3+ invulnerable save No, its always been for Tgants and still should be, i'd rather it just go down in price to 185pts base
Exocrine / Tyrannofx - drop in price by 50 points (look at tau vehicles, they are dirt cheap and way stronger) Agree

Powers Powers are fine for Nids, powers for nids are supportive and not suppose to be powerful
Dominion - All units within 36" of the caster are under the effect of synapse.
Onslaught - In addition to its benefits, the models can add +1 inch to their charge.
Paroxysm - Unit fights last. If the unit is not in combat it cannot charge.
The Horror - Unit cannot shoot for a turn rather than -1 to hit.

Warlord Traits
Adaptive Biology - Change to +1 toughness No, just give it -1 to wound always, its better than +1T and thats what is is now
Alien Cunning - Model can redeploy with infiltrate rules, essentially anywhere outside of 12" or 9" line of sight, and at the same time as rangers, etc. Should be Warlord +D3 Infantry units like Necrons
Synaptic Lynchpin - make this double synapse range.
Mind Eater - Instead of kill a character, make it kills a model. or just delete it entirely. I don't care. No, this can be very strong, you can move into, a Flyrant can use it on himself and jump over and get ready for another charge, you THEN can use double attack stratagem to fight again if you didnt charge that turn, (Hero Intervention 1st, then Mind Eater then Strat, then fight again) Behemoth loves doing this

Relics
Ymgarl Factor - Just let us pick one of the three and have it be a permanent effect. Rolling for a bonus in combat is so stupid. Should be pick 1 per turn

Hive Fleets
Since hydra is basically lame because everything costs reinforcements, change this so that bodies can be replenished to wounded squads. 1D6 healed wounds per troop squad at the end of the morale phase after casualties, returning slain models similar to AOS death. You talking about what here? The relic is a Deathspiiter, the WL is Regen on 6+ and the fleet is re-roll hits for hordes

A lot of wishlisting. Woo

Tyranids IMO is in a really good spot, besides about 6-7 units needing a points balance (Harpy/Crone, and all the big MC no one takes, finally BL/WP) and fix the Gant/Goyl problem.

Sporefield should be free units or 1CP, as the FW spores literally HAVE the Stratagem as a rule and are actually cheaper.......

PS: Tyrannocyte is ungodly over costed for 1 MC or 1 infantry unit, a Trygon is a few points more and can do the same thing other than MC, it really needs to be 875pts base (thats 21pts less)

875?????????????????????? Did you mean 75?

Yes i guess i fat fingered it, i edit it.

Spoletta wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
We agree in a lot of spots and also disagree a bit.

I don't feel Tyranids are balanced relative to the field.

Without Hive Guard, Tyranids are firmly a bottom tier codex.

After the Flyrant nerf, Tyranids disappeared for good reason. While the codex is varied and interesting, it doesn't play well relative to stronger armies like Guard, Tau, Custodes, Knights, and general Chaos.

We are coming at this with different aims.

Nids are a mid tier army and i want them to stay there. If something is in an upper tier, you don't want fix that by increasing the average power level of the other factions, but by decreasing the level of high tier factions.

Ideally everything should be mid tier.

Tyranids are barely mid tier, and *heavily* dependent on the terrain setup.

And i'm on board for nerfing quite a few things, but currently Tau and Marines are better than Tyranids, do they need a nerf honestly? I would say Tau absolutely do, but not marines.

I'd like Nids shooting to be viable.
I'd like Nids assault to be viable.

8th edition has been a real dick punch to true assault based armies... something is needed here.