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Asmodios wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

Is it possible for you to engage in a discussion without bringing up IG when they aren't the topic? Seriously though can you show me on the model where the IG touched you

Are you serious.... He wasn't even in the first 3 people in this thread to mention Guard... And he did it in direct response to someone else's mention of them.

And now you guys are practically brigading this otherwise quality thread over it, to argue bout Guard. You guys have some sort of complex and this probably needs to be moderated.

I think tyrant guard need rejiggering, beyond just decreasing their point cost or giving them more attacks or whatever.

Currently they're a fairly terrible bodyguard unit. They're significantly weaker defensively than the unit they protect, while costing a pretty comparable amount per wound (even using the cheapest wargear on them). They're also slower than a walking tyrant.
It's a no brainer to shoot down the T5 models with no invul save before the tyrant they're with.

I think that making them cheaper or more offensively powerful will at best just make people use them as assault units, rather than bodyguards. Which isn't ideal.


So my idea is to give them an additional rule to make them better bodyguards:

Fortress of Chitin: While a unit of Tyrant Guard is within 1" of a Hive Tyrant which does not have the Wings upgrade, they may use the Hive Tyrants toughness statistic and saves.
In addition, the Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard may add 1 to their armour saves.

That makes the walking hive tyrant + guards a solid defensive brick, as they should be.
While at the same time, putting wings on a tyrant is no longer the obvious 'pay some points to make my unit vastly better' upgrade that it currently is. You actually have to make a decision between speed + deepstrike with a flyrant, or the ability to tank damage with a walkrant.

I don't think TG problem is that they aren't defensive enough, I think it's that they are a big chunk of points for a unit with minimal game impact. Why not just take another Tyrant or 2 instead?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To make them worth taking I think you'd need to give them at least one optimal target, like a stonecrusher wrecking ball for shredding infantry around the Tyrant, or make the claws not so costy.

Wouldn't that turn them into just another assault unit though?

You would just take a bunch of tyrant guard for shredding infantry or whatever, and pretty much forget about guarding the tyrant with them?

I figured they should remain a defensive unit. But they should be improved to one that actually buffs the tyrant they're with. If that can give walking tyrants a purpose at the same time, all the better.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Honestly I think a few of these are good rules. A few are just jabs at how insane the imperial guard codex is.

So basically, you're admitting to trying to troll?

He can't be serious that tyranid monsters get to shoot twice. This is insane. It is obviously a joke.

They already do shoot twice if they don't move... and they're still not viable because T7 3+ dies in seconds to shooting armies (like Tau / Guard / Eldar).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
Venos - You need to decide what they are. Are they shenanigany buffers who are really hard to eliminate, or are they scary buffers who must die first. In the former case, character protections make a certain amount of sense. Or some LOS-like ability to pass hits to other models. If it's the second, then of course they die turn 1 - them not dying turn 1 should mean you win. The former can't have as strong buffs as the latter. Which is it? Which should it be?

I did not propose changes to venomthropes. I think they're fine how they are, but people need to understand they are designed to buy you essentially a turn of slightly reduced firepower from your opponent. I put them in to help me survive going second against Imperial Guard artillery.

They would 100% be too strong if they had the character keyword. I would *love* this change but I can't support it in good conscience.

Are you proposing this only affect the weapons beast? Like exocrine and tyranofex? Because Grinding advance for them would actually be a good rule - because when they stay still they basically have the effect of "shoot twice". That I could get behind. This affecting Carnifex however would be broken as feth - they are already boarderline undercosted for what they do. IMO they are carrying the nid codex like you say hive gaurd are. Hive gaurd are really good - don't get me wrong - but this is mostly due to the shot twice stratagem.

Arson Fire wrote:
Wouldn't that turn them into just another assault unit though?

You would just take a bunch of tyrant guard for shredding infantry or whatever, and pretty much forget about guarding the tyrant with them?

I figured they should remain a defensive unit. But they should be improved to one that actually buffs the tyrant they're with. If that can give walking tyrants a purpose at the same time, all the better.

Would Tyrant Guard benefit from having a Psychic Resonator rule, boosting the range of Synapse or do they already have one?

I know there's the Sporocyst which buffs Synapse range, I think there's a Relic, and maybe a Warlord trait that does it too? Could see a benefit from Tyrant Guard being able to be 'psychic antenna' for the Hive Tyrants if they're tying up an enemy unit a bit ahead of the VIP.

Arson Fire wrote:
Wouldn't that turn them into just another assault unit though?

You would just take a bunch of tyrant guard for shredding infantry or whatever, and pretty much forget about guarding the tyrant with them?

I figured they should remain a defensive unit. But they should be improved to one that actually buffs the tyrant they're with. If that can give walking tyrants a purpose at the same time, all the better.

Well - they realistically can't keep up with a HT or SL anyways. SL using his hive command on himself leaves them in the dust. Flying hive has 3x the movement. They should probably have 3++ saves at their current cost and they would be a viable unit. Right now you take them simply as a means to keep SL alive - which makes is actual cost over 400 points.
Biggest rules change I can get behind is 5+ saves for all the gaunts and 3+ saves for warriors.

I'd also like to see
Haruspex getting 3+ to hit
Toxicrine getting infiltrate ability.
Tyranofex getting a 2+ save and 16 wounds.
Exocrine weapon increase to 48".
Horms should also get the ability to advance and charge standard.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Would Tyrant Guard benefit from having a Psychic Resonator rule, boosting the range of Synapse or do they already have one?

I know there's the Sporocyst which buffs Synapse range, I think there's a Relic, and maybe a Warlord trait that does it too? Could see a benefit from Tyrant Guard being able to be 'psychic antenna' for the Hive Tyrants if they're tying up an enemy unit a bit ahead of the VIP.

It's not exactly inspiring.
As you mentioned, there's already all that other stuff that boosts synapse range, that is rarely taken. Synapse range isn't really something tyrants need more of.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Well - they realistically can't keep up with a HT or SL anyways. SL using his hive command on himself leaves them in the dust. Flying hive has 3x the movement. They should probably have 3++ saves at their current cost and they would be a viable unit. Right now you take them simply as a means to keep SL alive - which makes is actual cost over 400 points.

Sure. I figure whether they need a speed increase depends on the scale of the defensive buff they grant.
If they give an absolutely amazing defensive buff to a tyrant, then you need to decide whether the tyrant should slow itself down to remain with them. Before maybe rushing forward once it gets into assault range.
If they grant a lesser defensive buff, then just increase their speed to match the walking tyrant so they can always keep up.

Well - no one is their right mind is taking a walking tyrant. The only walking tyrant is gonna be swarmy - which you can use to shunt monsters into the opponent instead of shunting himself - but turn 2 he is always shunting himself - so the guard are never in the right place at the right time. I'd be happy if they got a special rule or stratagem that allowed them to keep up.

You are right that no one in their right mind is taking a walking tyrant.
Hence me trying to improve walking tyrants via tyrant guard, while leaving flyrants out of it.

Arson Fire wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Would Tyrant Guard benefit from having a Psychic Resonator rule, boosting the range of Synapse or do they already have one?

I know there's the Sporocyst which buffs Synapse range, I think there's a Relic, and maybe a Warlord trait that does it too? Could see a benefit from Tyrant Guard being able to be 'psychic antenna' for the Hive Tyrants if they're tying up an enemy unit a bit ahead of the VIP.

It's not exactly inspiring.
As you mentioned, there's already all that other stuff that boosts synapse range, that is rarely taken. Synapse range isn't really something tyrants need more of.

I was thinking more generalized Synapse boosting, but I guess if they're really lacking with regards to the Hive Tyrant focusing there is the best place to go.

I'm always curious to see how/what Tyranids are lacking just because I have a huge stash of stuff that I can build through my brother's army that he never got motivated to do--but it's always offputting given the negativity I see regarding Tyranids.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Would Tyrant Guard benefit from having a Psychic Resonator rule, boosting the range of Synapse or do they already have one?

I know there's the Sporocyst which buffs Synapse range, I think there's a Relic, and maybe a Warlord trait that does it too? Could see a benefit from Tyrant Guard being able to be 'psychic antenna' for the Hive Tyrants if they're tying up an enemy unit a bit ahead of the VIP.

It's not exactly inspiring.
As you mentioned, there's already all that other stuff that boosts synapse range, that is rarely taken. Synapse range isn't really something tyrants need more of.

I was thinking more generalized Synapse boosting, but I guess if they're really lacking with regards to the Hive Tyrant focusing there is the best place to go.

I'm always curious to see how/what Tyranids are lacking just because I have a huge stash of stuff that I can build through my brother's army that he never got motivated to do--but it's always offputting given the negativity I see regarding Tyranids.

Tyranids are just a bit over costed for what they do honestly. Thats the biggest problem and has been for 3 editions now. They have solid rules, its just most larger MC's, the Flyers, and some infantry are 15-20% overcosted.

Arson Fire wrote:
You are right that no one in their right mind is taking a walking tyrant.
Hence me trying to improve walking tyrants via tyrant guard, while leaving flyrants out of it.

IMO the best way to do this is to buff the walking hive tyrant himself. Perhaps give him a separate data slate - give him 2+ armor and the ability to buff a unit with perhaps a list of adaptations at the start of the battle or something.

Example.
For each walking hive tyrant in your army you can chose to synaptic hyper link with a single not hive tyrant unit. Choose one of the following abilities before the start of the game. As long as that unit stays within 12 inches of the hive tyrant it has one of these effects that last the rest of the battle.
1.) Linked senses. The target unit can use the hive tyrants BS and WS for the remander of the battle
2.) Warpfeild overdrive. The target unit is a monster - it has a 4++ save.
3.) Synaptic warp thether - If the target unit suffers a mortal wound - that wound is ignore on a roll of a 5+

This would alow a foot tyrant to be viable as a support unit. If could basically give a tyrant gaurd unit catalsyst for free. Or it could be used to buff a unit of warriors or termgants to shoot better. Or it could be used to protect Tyranid monster with a 4++ save.

My first reaction to all this is how about I spot you 500 more points instead and call it a day.

I'm not terribly familiar with Tyranid shooting so I can't comment much on the range buffs. Essentially it brings those weapons into range one turn earlier, which is a big buff.

I could see adding an additional attack for more talons but I think that should happen for any weapon that you double up on.

I'm hesitant to give AP-4 for MRC. Would you accept AP-4 on dreadnought power fists or AP-4 tau railguns?

Turning damage into 3 and firing twice are both rules from other armies. Just because an another army can do it, does not mean that another army needs to. Same with the AP-4, would you let everyone else"s vehicles and monsters fire twice under the same criteria?

I could see tyranid warriors moving up to a 3+ save but it should cost them something like how genestealers can get a 4+ armor save in exchange for their 5++. Maybe 1" of movement or the ability to advance? It would be neat to be able to model a hive fleet that built slower but tougher creatures.

Please do not make it easier to do the hive tyrant spam.

Synapse pretty much lets tyranids ignore morale as is. Buffing it further pretty much means that the small chance of forcing moral tests is gone.

3+ invuls saves need to reduced in the game. They're one of the least fun things to fight against and high invuls encourage high RoF weapons over heavy weapons even more.

Paroxysm and The Horror both need warpcharge values of 9 if that's what they're going to do. Not allowing an opponent to use their units doesn't sound fun. Plus this is going to further buff alpha strikes.You get to destroy an enemy unit and then effectively neuter a second unit. Those powers are extremely strong.

Alien Cunning needs to be infantry only. Monstrous creatures don't need to be able to infiltrate. How do you miss a hive tyrant?

Mind Eater could work with every time it kills a unit but if it's every model that's going to be a lot of moves.

If hydra is going to bring dead models, it needs to do it on some sort of roll. Necrons do that inately and still have to roll. It's a bit of a bummer if another army can do their signature trait even better. What about innately on a 6 and a 5+ if within 6" of one of the spawning models (in addition to the number of models spawned by the creatures)?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well - no one is their right mind is taking a walking tyrant. The only walking tyrant is gonna be swarmy - which you can use to shunt monsters into the opponent instead of shunting himself - but turn 2 he is always shunting himself - so the guard are never in the right place at the right time. I'd be happy if they got a special rule or stratagem that allowed them to keep up.

Not completely true.

The walkrant is never considered for the typical nid list setup of rushing toward enemy lines trying to alphastrike whatever possible.

I often play lists without genestealers and with lots of gants, which play the turn 2 game and need to avoid having any obvious targets in the army. In those cases i prefer walkants, they have a cost to wound ratio similar to that of other targets.Obviously these lists are Leviathan and i have to say that they work really well. They suffer a bit from those lists that try to shoot you out of the table from 96" away turn one (pure IG lists), but those list are becoming more an exception than the rule. Now people play a mix of shooting/assault with some soup, or go for the mid range.

Problem of this list is time. It plays a lot of stuff in all phases and is highly durable but lacks a some offensive, so the games tend to be long.

Probably wouldn't work in an high competitive tournament, but for the standard 40K game local event it can easily snatch top place.

In short, flyrants are an autotake in kraken lists, and since 95% of the nids list are kraken you always see flyrants, but after the nerf there is a 40 point difference between a walkrant and a flyrant, which are 40 point wasted if it goes down turn 1.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
We agree in a lot of spots and also disagree a bit.

I don't feel Tyranids are balanced relative to the field.

Without Hive Guard, Tyranids are firmly a bottom tier codex.

After the Flyrant nerf, Tyranids disappeared for good reason. While the codex is varied and interesting, it doesn't play well relative to stronger armies like Guard, Tau, Custodes, Knights, and general Chaos.

We are coming at this with different aims.

Nids are a mid tier army and i want them to stay there. If something is in an upper tier, you don't want fix that by increasing the average power level of the other factions, but by decreasing the level of high tier factions.

Ideally everything should be mid tier.

Tyranids are barely mid tier, and *heavily* dependent on the terrain setup.

And i'm on board for nerfing quite a few things, but currently Tau and Marines are better than Tyranids, do they need a nerf honestly? I would say Tau absolutely do, but not marines.

I'd like Nids shooting to be viable.
I'd like Nids assault to be viable.

8th edition has been a real dick punch to true assault based armies... something is needed here.

I can see Tau being a problem if they go the full overwatch route, but marines?
Can i ask you why do you believe that we are worse than marines?

I play in an area where we have a bit of everything, from GK players to aeldari and imperium soups, and with my nids i compete easily with all of them. I truly feel that my nids are mid tier if not higher, and as i said above, i don't even use the most cutthroath lists. Maybe that the average level of youi area is high? Nids work really well from low to mid/high player skill levels, but start suffering when you have really good players around. If you play in an area with high skill players you could have the idea that nids are suffering right now, but let me tell you that it is only your personal experience.

Disclaimer for this post and all my previous posts: We don't play with ITC rules here, so that could change stuff.

often play lists without genestealers and with lots of gants, which play the turn 2 game and need to avoid having any obvious targets in the army. 

Can you elaborate on that? I'm slowly but steadily adding to my gant collection and heading towards an eventual swarm. I love the idea of clouds of those little buggers.

I don't understand this thread. "Might as well create a wish list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex, obviously none of it will come true." Yea your codex is out. Of course it won't come true.

This thread wasn't made before the codex release either, was it?

The Nid codex is generally held up as a paragon of internal and external balance, something other xenos covet. Like when us Ork players talk about what we want for our codex we often reference your own. Though I'm sure its not as simple as that and some choices are better than others, from what I can gather a shooty Nid list and an assault list are definitely viable.

To comment on the list proper - 5+ 4pt models should never be a thing and Flyrants are priced incredibly well.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't understand this thread. "Might as well create a wish list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex, obviously none of it will come true." Yea your codex is out. Of course it won't come true.

Well there's always next tyranid codex to be released.

If IG players can have their thread for next IG codex why not tyranids?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't understand this thread. "Might as well create a wish list of things that would be nice for the Tyranid codex, obviously none of it will come true." Yea your codex is out. Of course it won't come true.

This thread wasn't made before the codex release either, was it?

The Nid codex is generally held up as a paragon of internal and external balance, something other xenos covet. Like when us Ork players talk about what we want for our codex we often reference your own. Though I'm sure its not as simple as that and some choices are better than others, from what I can gather a shooty Nid list and an assault list are definitely viable.

To comment on the list proper - 5+ 4pt models should never be a thing and Flyrants are priced incredibly well.

Its a pointless thread, IMO the tyranid codex is one of the better balanced codex's (given a few units, like Gargoyles, Hive Crone, Tyrannocytes), and my personally favorite out of 8th so far.

 Insectum7 wrote:

often play lists without genestealers and with lots of gants, which play the turn 2 game and need to avoid having any obvious targets in the army. 

Can you elaborate on that? I'm slowly but steadily adding to my gant collection and heading towards an eventual swarm. I love the idea of clouds of those little buggers.

If you forgo our best units (flyrants, hive guards and stealers. Fexes are ok.) the durability of the nid faction rises a lot. There are types of list that can be played under the following principles:

1) No obvious target. Your opponent should never have a clear target for his attacks, adjust your upgrades and weapon accordingly on your units and monsters so that all targets are equally important. In some way is the old threat overrun concept.

2) No long range shooting or "just enough", where just enough is the amount of long range firepower needed to eliminate one high value target (quadlas preds or tank commanders for example).

3) Your first turn is quite quick, you advance, shoot a few things and throw your powers. The damage is limited. The list focuses on range 18/24" weapons and assaults, which yeld much more per point than long range stuff. In pratical terms, you forgo turn 1 in order to unleash hell on turn 2 and 3.

4) Loads and loads of little guys. I usually play this as a brigade and between terma, horma, rippers and gargs i have more than 120 wounds. This list wants an attrition war, and after turn 2 the little guys are everywhere and can really mess with a lot of stuff and force harsh decisions on the objectives.

5) Warriors are nice. They follow the doctrine of not being good targets (infantry, T4, 4+, 8 points/wound), and from turn 2 onward they show the opponent what a good hybrid shooting/assault unit can do. The numbers that they can put out are simply scary, and are good targets for double shooting.

6) A leviathan walkrant is a bad target, and since he will be your warlord, that's a good thing. Take the leviathan trait and you now have a 4++ that can be rerolled two times per turn. Last time my DE opponent tried to kill it, it resisted 2 turns of focused fire from all his dissie cannons, and it wasn't luck, because math supports that (i healed him once with the stratagem). Not bad for 170 points!

7) Cover! A couple of warriors in front of a fex or a walkrant give him cover, use this! (you will also need a toe in cover)

The gamble here is in not getting preventively crippled by turn 1 and 2 fire, which i found that if i don't use high value models, get venoms and play leviathan it is doable against the large majority of lists running around right now.

You are countered by the following lists:

a) Full IG list with big screens. Even worse if they use conscripts.
b) Alaitoc lists with loads of flyers. This kind of nid list unfortunately is ill equipped to fight flyers.

I think it would be more productive to think of likely changes that might be in CA that would fix the faction's problems.

So probably just points adjustments, but a faction-wide bonus could also be doable.

I think both Nids and GK could be fixed by ignoring the turn 1 deep strike restrictions.

I also think Shadow In The Warp could do with some kind of buff. Suggestions?

Spoletta wrote:
You are countered by the following lists:

a) Full IG list with big screens. Even worse if they use conscripts.
b) Alaitoc lists with loads of flyers. This kind of nid list unfortunately is ill equipped to fight flyers.

Disclaimer: I have virtually zero experience vs tyranids in 8th ed. Literally only game was vs start collecting box. Thus I have very little knowledge of tyranids based mostly on reading. No tyranids in local group.

Anyway how does this list deal with orks who throw wall of grots(about 60" wide) front of your army with wall of orks behind them some 10-12" behind them with another layer of grots between in case you use some double assault shenigan strategem? Just came into mind as I have been having fun jumping grots ahead(not typical 30 boyz and try to charge) as a roadblock and one army type I thought it might actually be good would be foot slogging tyranids. Which sounds pretty much what you seem to describing.

So some 150-180 boyz plus supporting characters plus some 100 or so grots some which are thrown ahead in huge line making basically huge wall aiming to ensure orks should have chance to basically charge up.

Guess using some cheap unit to eat one group while rest of tyranids hang further back could work?

Dunno. Due to above mentioned reason haven't been able to test this. Have had some success blocking part of space wolves giving me time to deal with part while part were dealing with big pile of grots(after first wave rest being basically fearless)

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
You are countered by the following lists:

a) Full IG list with big screens. Even worse if they use conscripts.
b) Alaitoc lists with loads of flyers. This kind of nid list unfortunately is ill equipped to fight flyers.

Disclaimer: I have virtually zero experience vs tyranids in 8th ed. Literally only game was vs start collecting box. Thus I have very little knowledge of tyranids based mostly on reading. No tyranids in local group.

Anyway how does this list deal with orks who throw wall of grots(about 60" wide) front of your army with wall of orks behind them some 10-12" behind them with another layer of grots between in case you use some double assault shenigan strategem? Just came into mind as I have been having fun jumping grots ahead(not typical 30 boyz and try to charge) as a roadblock and one army type I thought it might actually be good would be foot slogging tyranids. Which sounds pretty much what you seem to describing.

So some 150-180 boyz plus supporting characters plus some 100 or so grots some which are thrown ahead in huge line making basically huge wall aiming to ensure orks should have chance to basically charge up.

Guess using some cheap unit to eat one group while rest of tyranids hang further back could work?

Dunno. Due to above mentioned reason haven't been able to test this. Have had some success blocking part of space wolves giving me time to deal with part while part were dealing with big pile of grots(after first wave rest being basically fearless)

Horde Nids list NEEDS Neurothropes and Malantrhope/Venoms as backups, not Hive Tyrants, you can hide your 3-4 Neurothropes inside the hordes giving you lots of Psychic support and damage. Some of their powers are, -1 to hit (even in melee), 1 enemy unit fights last, FNP 6+, Run and shoot like normal, and always a -1 to hit via shooting.

Pick the front 1-2 most units that will charge you, make 1 Fight last and the other -1 to hit, then even with Gants between shooting and melee those units wont have enough damage to kill off much, especially if they have FnP Nids also gant a bit more damage for having 20+ models in a unit, re-roll wounds of 1 is very good when you have 120 dice, and Hgants also pile in 6" so they will gain a larger damage boost in melee on the charge.

Horde nids has always done well in 8th, for some reason no one wants to play with 200 models tho.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add: Kronos is AMAZING as a small battalion, the Anti Powers strat and MW's to fail Psykers is very strong. ALso the 90 TGants re-roll hits of 1 if they dont move, thats re-roll hits and wounds of 1 if they didnt move and are 20 models or more.

Kraken for the Hgants and Genestealer units

 Amishprn86 wrote:


To add: Kronos is AMAZING as a small battalion, the Anti Powers strat and MW's to fail Psykers is very strong. ALso the 90 TGants re-roll hits of 1 if they dont move, thats re-roll hits and wounds of 1 if they didnt move and are 20 models or more.

Kraken for the Hgants and Genestealer units

Yeah, that is considered the basic setup for nids right now. I was talking about a different approach to list building, based on resilience instead of speed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
You are countered by the following lists:

a) Full IG list with big screens. Even worse if they use conscripts.
b) Alaitoc lists with loads of flyers. This kind of nid list unfortunately is ill equipped to fight flyers.

Disclaimer: I have virtually zero experience vs tyranids in 8th ed. Literally only game was vs start collecting box. Thus I have very little knowledge of tyranids based mostly on reading. No tyranids in local group.

Anyway how does this list deal with orks who throw wall of grots(about 60" wide) front of your army with wall of orks behind them some 10-12" behind them with another layer of grots between in case you use some double assault shenigan strategem? Just came into mind as I have been having fun jumping grots ahead(not typical 30 boyz and try to charge) as a roadblock and one army type I thought it might actually be good would be foot slogging tyranids. Which sounds pretty much what you seem to describing.

So some 150-180 boyz plus supporting characters plus some 100 or so grots some which are thrown ahead in huge line making basically huge wall aiming to ensure orks should have chance to basically charge up.

Guess using some cheap unit to eat one group while rest of tyranids hang further back could work?

Dunno. Due to above mentioned reason haven't been able to test this. Have had some success blocking part of space wolves giving me time to deal with part while part were dealing with big pile of grots(after first wave rest being basically fearless)

In that case you welcome the carnage, tell your wife that you will be late for dinner and go at them frontally by using termagants as the shield and warriors as the sword. (9 warriors eat 30 boyz before stratagems)
Never had a game like that, but it sounds glorious.

Yeah, i personally like Hgants, i normally play with 2 full units of them as kraken, i highly enjoy the 6" pile in/Consolidate, it is really strong if they get their.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Horde nids has always done well in 8th, for some reason no one wants to play with 200 models tho.

My problem isn't playing. My problem is buying yet another horde army Having already orks that I will now need to buy looot more boys(I think 360 should be enough...) to satisfy clan rules...Well that's enough hordes to buy!

Would be interesting to try against tyranids though with orks. That's one army I haven't tried much and presumably would be more fun at least h2h based bugs than say dark eldars that just keep running around poor boys.

tneva82 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Horde nids has always done well in 8th, for some reason no one wants to play with 200 models tho.

My problem isn't playing. My problem is buying yet another horde army Having already orks that I will now need to buy looot more boys(I think 360 should be enough...) to satisfy clan rules...Well that's enough hordes to buy!

Would be interesting to try against tyranids though with orks. That's one army I haven't tried much and presumably would be more fun at least h2h based bugs than say dark eldars that just keep running around poor boys.

Careful with that, maybe that after the ork codex is released having hordes of boyz will not be the best choice.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

The Nid codex is generally held up as a paragon of internal and external balance, something other xenos covet. Like when us Ork players talk about what we want for our codex we often reference your own. Though I'm sure its not as simple as that and some choices are better than others, from what I can gather a shooty Nid list and an assault list are definitely viable.

Anyone who thinks the Tyranid codex has great internal balance is... just wrong. I'm all for saying that we are fine in the meta, but within the Dex itself... Cmon. There's so much garbage inside and so many pointless units.

I really also think that adaptive biology should change to be a 6+++ against all wounds. Imagine if every single T5 or greater monster in the codex had a second save just like DG.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

The Nid codex is generally held up as a paragon of internal and external balance, something other xenos covet. Like when us Ork players talk about what we want for our codex we often reference your own. Though I'm sure its not as simple as that and some choices are better than others, from what I can gather a shooty Nid list and an assault list are definitely viable.

Except it's really not.

The internal balance is not there, and externally, since the Flyrant nerf + rule of 3, Nids have really been hurting. We have a lot of units that are auto-exclude. Highlighted in my original post.

We have a decent codex, but it's barely mid-tier at this point. Power has creeped since it was released by a significant margin. All of the codexes that came out after ours are vastly superior in a straight up fight.