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I’m looking for the best and most efficient units to bring for chaff clearing to aid my imperial knights. I’m looking to keep it cheaper points wise also

Dragoons are pretty good at dealing with chaff if you can get them up there. You should just be able to use knights to get rid of chaff quite easily though.

Aggressors are pretty good. Only thing is they are best when stationary, so more useful reactively than proactively.

If they stand still so fire twice, and assuming you have a Captain in range because... Well you'll need an HQ anyway probably, you'll get on average from a unit of 3:

20 Guardsmen killed
25 Hormagaunts killed

Which for 111pts is pretty rad.

An imperial guard battalion with 3 mortar hws

Warlord Titan with two Ariaoch Power claws with inbuilt Vulcan Mega Bolters and 2 Twin MegaBolters on the shoulders. That'll shift that screening unit of Carnifexes right quick and a bargain at 4000pts

 Rolsheen wrote:
Warlord Titan with two Ariaoch Power claws with inbuilt Vulcan Mega Bolters and 2 Twin MegaBolters on the shoulders. That'll shift that screening unit of Carnifexes right quick and a bargain at 4000pts

You're not exactly wrong but at the same time there's just something off about that I can't put my finger on.

 kastelen wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
Warlord Titan with two Ariaoch Power claws with inbuilt Vulcan Mega Bolters and 2 Twin MegaBolters on the shoulders. That'll shift that screening unit of Carnifexes right quick and a bargain at 4000pts

You're not exactly wrong but at the same time there's just something off about that I can't put my finger on.

Is it actually points efficient though? Genuine question. If points are not for consideration, then Cent Devs are pretty great at clearing chaff!

I'd say the Quad heavy bolter Rapier Artilleries are worth mentioning. They work amazing for me.

Punishers, Immolators/Repressors, Knight Wardens, idk what AdMech or Marines have now...

Leman Russ Punisher tanks output 43-53 shots, for about 150-200 points depending on loadout and tank-commander-ness.

It's probably the best chaff-clearing unit in the Imperium.

Dominions in an Immolator/Repressor will do about three-quarters of the work of the Punisher, so they're an option. Aggressors are an option to.
Wolf Guard on Bikes are also an option, but they're more expensive.

Regular Punisher actually only kills 10 Guardsmen, significantly less than the Aggressors. And that's for more points, and assuming they're getting re-roll 1s.

Pask at the other end is killing 17, but that's still less than 3 Aggressors for the price of about 5.

 Stux wrote:
Regular Punisher actually only kills 10 Guardsmen, significantly less than the Aggressors. And that's for more points, and assuming they're getting re-roll 1s.

Pask at the other end is killing 17, but that's still less than 3 Aggressors for the price of about 5.

Haven't you heard? Every guard unit is an OP, game-breaking killing machine unto itself. No marine option could possibly compete with the guard for killing things efficiently.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Regular Punisher actually only kills 10 Guardsmen, significantly less than the Aggressors. And that's for more points, and assuming they're getting re-roll 1s.

Pask at the other end is killing 17, but that's still less than 3 Aggressors for the price of about 5.

Haven't you heard? Every guard unit is an OP, game-breaking killing machine unto itself. No marine option could possibly compete with the guard for killing things efficiently.

I'd think you were being sarcastic if that statement wasn't 100% accurate.

Seriously though, in terms of total value for the points Guard squads are probably the best you can get. 3 squads of guard and 2 captains put out 124 shots for 200 points at rapid fire range before upgrades, and Mortars are extremely cheap.

Aggressors might beat that ratio, but they're also only 6 wounds and you have to take a lot of other stuff in any regular detachment just to get to them. That 200 points of Guard is a Battalion, so it's clearing chaff, holding board space, and adding significantly to your CP pool, and iirc you can add two more squads that are granting a shot per point spent before two captains isn't enough to hand out orders to them all.

The Newman wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Regular Punisher actually only kills 10 Guardsmen, significantly less than the Aggressors. And that's for more points, and assuming they're getting re-roll 1s.

Pask at the other end is killing 17, but that's still less than 3 Aggressors for the price of about 5.

Haven't you heard? Every guard unit is an OP, game-breaking killing machine unto itself. No marine option could possibly compete with the guard for killing things efficiently.

I'd think you were being sarcastic if that statement wasn't 100% accurate.

Seriously though, in terms of total value for the points Guard squads are probably the best you can get. 3 squads of guard and 2 captains put out 124 shots for 200 points at rapid fire range before upgrades, and Mortars are extremely cheap.

Aggressors might beat that ratio, but they're also only 6 wounds and you have to take a lot of other stuff in any regular detachment just to get to them. That 200 points of Guard is a Battalion, so it's clearing chaff, holding board space, and adding significantly to your CP pool, and iirc you can add two more squads that are granting a shot per point spent before two captains isn't enough to hand out orders to them all.

Mortar HWS are 6 wounds T3 5+, and yet because apparently people here don't realize that getting LOS on one of three 60mm bases is not that hard (much less nine 60mm bases), they're considered completely immune to return fire. Look at the numbers on mortars vs. units in cover or with -1 to hit. It takes several turns just to boot 5 marines in cover off of an objective with all 9 'efficient' mortars. Hell, it takes two turns to boot a 5 man tac squad off of an objective without cover even with a Cadian officer. Pre-rule of 3, you could bring enough cheap mortars to actually overcome defensive bonuses and wipe units in a single turn. Now, capped at 9, it's nice supporting fire but it's not breaking anything.

Guard infantry are good, but they die in droves and rarely get to use their theoretical efficiency because nobody is dumb enough to park units within 12" of multiple FRFSRF squads unless they failed a sure-thing charge, but any unit that fails a charge is fethed anyway, so that's not unique to the Guard. Yes, on a completely flat board starting 12" away, the guardsmen become OP. Luckily for everyone involved, that doesn't happen in actual games. Seeing as there's also the issue of fitting 60 guardsmen all within 12" of the same target since you typically want them spread out to screen.

Storm Bolter DW vets make bloody puddles out of chaff.

DW Aggressor teams.

Stormbolters in general are superb chaff-clearing weapons for the points - one of the best in the Imperium arsenal. Sadly most of the things they're attached to are expensive, die quickly etc.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Regular Punisher actually only kills 10 Guardsmen, significantly less than the Aggressors. And that's for more points, and assuming they're getting re-roll 1s.

Pask at the other end is killing 17, but that's still less than 3 Aggressors for the price of about 5.

Haven't you heard? Every guard unit is an OP, game-breaking killing machine unto itself. No marine option could possibly compete with the guard for killing things efficiently.

I've never ever seen anyone even imply this hyperbole in any thread, let alone this one where the person was clearly trying to be helpful. Take your salt elsewhere.

The very next post says that that hyperbole is accurate.

Guardsmen are OP with or without terrain. They have far outstripped any of my marine units in terms of overall usefulness. Aggressors are only theoretically dangerous, as they are incredibly fragile for their cost.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The very next post says that that hyperbole is accurate.

What? The next post said that Guardsmen are probably the most efficient chaff clearing unit - which mathematically they just might be. Nothing at all about every single Guard unit in the dex being OP, or even about Guardsmen themselves being OP - in fact his second pick was Aggressors. What did you read?


Hyperbole like this is exactly what ruins good discussion, get the chip off your shoulder.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
The very next post says that that hyperbole is accurate.

What? The next post said that Guardsmen are probably the most efficient chaff clearing unit - which mathematically they just might be. Nothing at all about every single Guard unit in the dex being OP, or even about Guardsmen themselves being OP - in fact his second pick was Aggressors. What did you read?


Hyperbole like this is exactly what ruins good discussion, get the chip off your shoulder.

There's a nearly 30 page thread on this very sub forum crying about every decent guard unit from infantry to mortars to artillery being OP and needing nerfs. So yeah, guard players are going to be a bit defensive when you paint incomplete pictures like showing how mathematically op guard are without factoring in how much of that firepower actually gets brought to bear due to terrain and distance. Lasguns rarely get to FRFSRF against anybody decent. A full FRFSRF on a tac squad out of cover kills TWO marines on average. That's 70 points shooting to kill 26. Which is good, but not the broken mess the people in that thread claim.

Getting 2 squads in FRFSRF range might be doable, but the more squads close enough to do that, the less of a screen you could possibly have. The guardsmen can't be simultaneously in FRFSRF range and blocking charges across the gunline.

That thread is 30 pages because of the absurdly illogical arguments and unwillingness to concede the tiniest points from posters like w1zard and asmodeus. They literally have 6 pages worth of replies alone in there. Look at a unit like Castellan, that EVERYBODY wants nerfed much more than mortars, yet there is no 30 page thread on that. That thread getting so long is a reflection of the Guard community on here, in a similar manner to your posts. Not everyone else.

It takes 3.325 bolter shots at 3+ to kill one guardsmen.

It takes 27 to kill one aggressor.

If you can kill one aggressor with bolters, you can wipe a whole squad of Guardsmen with morale factored in.

Alright but the numbers on Guardsmen are great offensively. In practice both units have pitfalls, and Guardsmen have other strengths of their own. It's a fair enough opinion to have that Guardsmen are good chaff clearers and doesn't need these kind of accusations.

Regardless, the salt post was made in response to a guy who said it was LR Punishers. At the very least it's not at all deserving of the kneejerky response it got, people are entitled to their opinion and he was trying to be helpful. People literally mentioned Mechanicum, SoB, multiple SM units and even a Knight before that, but notice that the triggering only happens when someone mentions a Guard unit. Your community is way too defensive, just keep the salt and the downplaying out of a thread aimed to help someone, thanks

 SHUPPET wrote:
That thread is 30 pages because of the absurdly illogical arguments and unwillingness to concede the tiniest points from posters like w1zard and asmodeus. They literally have 6 pages worth of replies alone in there. Look at a unit like Castellan, that EVERYBODY wants nerfed much more than mortars, yet there is no 30 page thread on that. That thread getting so long is a reflection of the Guard community on here, in a similar manner to your posts. Not everyone else.

You mean like the equally absurdly illogical arguments coming from Marmatag, Martel, and Slayer on the other side? The rabid anti-guard poster isn't just some strawman, and that thread shows it. One of them insists that there's a points value that makes flying hive tyrants balanced and that Rule of Three was unnecessary ffs. There is no points value that would let you take a single FHT at decent value where you wouldn't just go ahead and take five of them, either the price is so high you would just not take FHT's, or its low enough that its efficient to spam them. In the same way Rof3 effectively reined in mortars because it put a soft cap at 9, which made defensive buffs a viable means of countering mortars since it basically halved the number of mortars you could bring.

Personally, I agree with Spoletta. Guardsmen at 5 points is probably reasonable. Marmatag or Martel's (can't remember which of them said it) 10 point mortars are certainly not reasonable and only would serve to delete mortars from the game.

Offense is important but survivability and threat range matter too. And a few Guardsmen won’t survive anything. Guardsmen can do great things but you aren’t taking three squads of Guardsmen to deal with chaff, you need to take closer to 10 squads at which point you’re probably playing a Brigade and Guardsmen are a core identity to your lost, not just a chaff clearing unit.

If OP is willing to run a Catachan brigade, that’s an option. Otherwise I’d say just take a Crusader or Warden, and while a Guard battalion can supplement them your shouldn’t expect 30 Guardsmen to accomplish a lot of chaff clearing on their own.

I'm not illogical. IG players are deluded. I can safely say this after abusing opponents with their "fair" units.

You cant even keep posts straight. I've never proposed a mortar cost.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
The very next post says that that hyperbole is accurate.

What? The next post said that Guardsmen are probably the most efficient chaff clearing unit - which mathematically they just might be. Nothing at all about every single Guard unit in the dex being OP, or even about Guardsmen themselves being OP - in fact his second pick was Aggressors. What did you read?


Hyperbole like this is exactly what ruins good discussion, get the chip off your shoulder.

The very next post was answering sarcasm with sarcasm, and then making a serious effort to answer the original question. The OP did say he was looking for cheap units points-wise.

I'd also suggest having a look at AdMech. Their synergy with their HQ choices is ... weird, but the Rangers pack a very good gun, the Castilian robots beat the pants off anything in the Marine arsenal if you take advantage of their synergy with the Breachers*, the entire force can get a -1 to be hit, and thematically they look a lot more like they belong in a list with Knights than the Guard do.

* I think it's the Breachers, it could be the other guys with the tracks. They get a frankly stupid increase in their shot volume if they are positioned close enough together.

No question - castellan robots. Absolutely obliterate anything with 1 wound and no invo save.