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What do you think are the Must Use Game Changing Stratagems for each army.

For example....Blood Angels and Descent of Angels.

The best stratagems for AdMech depend on what units you're using. Conqueror Doctrina Imperative is great with Sydonian Dragoons, not worth the CP otherwise. Plasma Specialists + Elimination Volley on Ryza plasma Kataphron is a powerful combo, but the stratagems alone aren't that useful.

Most of the stratagems in Custodes are situational. Concussion Grenades, Shoulder The Mantle, and From The Golden Light are probably the most generally useful.

Orks do love to use More dakka and showin' off whenever possible. It's a twofer but I think it's worth combining the two.

Command Reroll. Everybody I see uses the heck out of that one.

I'd say Opportunistic Advance for tyranids. It's specific to hive fleet Kraken, but just about everyone takes Kraken anyway. It lets your genestealers move huge distances and still be able to charge.

Single-Minded Annihilation, to shoot twice with an infantry unit (hive guard or devilgaunts usually) is also great.

There are a few other good ones in there, but I'd say those are the big two in that army.

cody.d. wrote:
Orks do love to use More dakka and showin' off whenever possible. It's a twofer but I think it's worth combining the two.

More dakka is rather tiny effect EXCEPT if you have -1 to hit so it's not so much must use. If you have good shooting position and aren't facing units with -1 to hit it's worthless. Especially now with 15 max size. It's 2 extra hits in average. That's it. For 2CP too steep.

Of course if for some reason you get -1 to hit it's mandatory for lootas to be worth anything.

For necrons destroyer stratagem is pretty much only thing that matches but that's also because destroyers are such a crutch unit for necrons being one of the few AT units worth a damn.

Breton wrote:
Command Reroll. Everybody I see uses the heck out of that one.

We've been playing without it, and it's made game far better. Don't think I'll be using it again.

 Elbows wrote:

Breton wrote:
Command Reroll. Everybody I see uses the heck out of that one.

We've been playing without it, and it's made game far better. Don't think I'll be using it again.

Issue then is that there's lots of high variance things that are absolutely essential. Necron AT for example is basically dependant on 1d6 shot weapons. Bit of cold roll there and vehicles are essentially impossible to deal.

So if GW wants to get rid of that they would also need to reduce variance from the game.

I think there are more of the impossible to avoid stratagems, rather than game changing. Like 3d6 charge for Bloodletters or Death Company - it is necessary if you use these units, but will they be game changing?
Double shooting of Slaanesh CSM, Bad Moons, Tyranids - is almost mandatory if you use shooty units. Not game changing usually.

I agree that stratagems which can change the course of the game?
Comman Re-roll - changed the course of most games I think.
Counter Offensive
Insane Bravery - i think that one might aim for the top1 of the game changers

Agents of Vect
Plans Generations in the making - these are sometimes game changing if your opponents relies on the stratagems.

I think Supreme Deception (for Callidus) also is at the high tier of game changers: with lots of armies having high CP consumption, couple extra CP spent might destroy the opponent's strategy alltogether.

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

Breton wrote:
Command Reroll. Everybody I see uses the heck out of that one.

We've been playing without it, and it's made game far better. Don't think I'll be using it again.

Issue then is that there's lots of high variance things that are absolutely essential. Necron AT for example is basically dependant on 1d6 shot weapons. Bit of cold roll there and vehicles are essentially impossible to deal.

So if GW wants to get rid of that they would also need to reduce variance from the game.

They could easily make AT weapons 2d3 shots, or provide innate reroll to the stationary tanks, because current approach leads to controversy against background, like Catachans having best tanks in the Imperial Guard.

Speaking for the IK, it will be:
1. Machine Spirit Resurgent, using the top row of dmg table for IK is so important to let them perform well to wreck havoc in enemy line, denying the whole enemy previous turn's effort of shooting / chopping it.
2. Order of Companions, no need to explain the value of it.
3. Full Tilt, advance and charge, your IK potentially have 36" charge threat range.

Space Marine:
1. Strike from Shadow, although being nerfed, it may be the only strategem that worth its cost in SM codex.

Necron:
apart from the obvious "Extermination Protocols", the Adaptive Subroutines is not bad if you spam Wraiths, or the Damage Control Overrides if you go the way of "AV13 wall", for the same reason of IK above.

CSM:
IF Legions: VotWL
IF Legion with slaanesh Marks allowed: Cacophony on the Hammer
IF Renegades: Cacophony.

Tide of Traitors will also be used often due to a big cultist blob beeing a good screen.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Necron:
apart from the obvious "Extermination Protocols", the Adaptive Subroutines is not bad if you spam Wraiths, or the Quantum Deflection if you go the way of "AV13 wall", for the same reason of IK above.

Quantum has drawback of affecting only 1. It gets activated, enemy switches to another ark.

Wraith one is nice though still not reliable T1 charge even with nephrek :(

tneva82 wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Necron:
apart from the obvious "Extermination Protocols", the Adaptive Subroutines is not bad if you spam Wraiths, or the Quantum Deflection if you go the way of "AV13 wall", for the same reason of IK above.

Quantum has drawback of affecting only 1. It gets activated, enemy switches to another ark.

Wraith one is nice though still not reliable T1 charge even with nephrek :(

I am sorry, made mistake, I want to say: Damage Control Overrides. Sorry.

Ah well yeah that makes bit more sense. Assuming vehicle doesn't blow up in one go.

Not sure how often that happens yet. 2 plays and both times DDA been invincible(500 pts ig struggled to hurt, BA had little guns and was busy with infantry)

Custodes:

- Shoulder the Mantle: Great for if you have an allied Imperium warlord.
- Swooping Dive: Expensive, but provides an excellent counter-charge opportunity.
- Concussion Grenades: Excellent on a squad of Allarus, split fire and that's at least 3 squads which may not be able to Overwatch.
- Piercing Strike: Small boost but can be worth it depending on the target. Have combined this with Avenge the Fallen in the past, had a single Custodian survive 6 Paladins, struck back and killed 4 of them.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Custodes:

- Shoulder the Mantle: Great for if you have an allied Imperium warlord.
- Swooping Dive: Expensive, but provides an excellent counter-charge opportunity.
- Concussion Grenades: Excellent on a squad of Allarus, split fire and that's at least 3 squads which may not be able to Overwatch.
- Piercing Strike: Small boost but can be worth it depending on the target. Have combined this with Avenge the Fallen in the past, had a single Custodian survive 6 Paladins, struck back and killed 4 of them.

An interesting fact has been found about "avenge the fallen", its maximum efficiency happens when you lose exactly half of the squad.

Operative Requisition Sanctioned feels pretty game changing.

Daemons: Our stratagems suck so.... lol.

I play Slaanesh and I consider the exploding hits strat to be OK. the -1 to hit or attack is alright as well.

I suppose generic strat would be warp surge or the deep strike strat?

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Daemons: Our stratagems suck so.... lol.

I play Slaanesh and I consider the exploding hits strat to be OK. the -1 to hit or attack is alright as well.

I suppose generic strat would be warp surge or the deep strike strat?

Three - Four of the Daemon Stratagem do wonders in game,

Warp Surge is surely great with the +1 to inv save, put that on a unit of 9 Nurglings and you basically have the toughest unit in the whole game for their cost, I mean serious business, no joking.

The other one would be "Plague Banner", coupled with other buff for that 30 strong Plague Bearer gonna wound IK on 5s, and do 3dmg on 5s to wound and 5dmg on 6s to wound, Say goodbye to your Knight Castellan if it got charged by this horde.

The third one would be Denizens of the Warp, no need to explain it, it is the foundation of Bloodletter bomb.

The last one is situational but honestly, it nails the coffin for Grey Knight, denying the old nemesis of Daemons for being good even in fluffy casaul game in 8th edition. Yes, you might got it right, it is the Daemonic Incursion, many people may think it is tooooo situational because it is specifically against an already commonly acknowledged "weakest" army which feels like beating the dead horse. But have to say when you experienced the situation that after you focused dedicated more than half of your army's psychic onslaught, shooting and fighting to finally successfully kill that one Daemon Prince or 9 strong Tzeentch Flamer unit, but only watching helplessly when they come back at full strengh 9" away from you and annihilate you, You will know this stratagem is the final death sentence to Grey Knight in 8th edition 40K game, you will not even want to play GK for fluff. So, although situational, it cannot be underrated as it basically kills another faction in the game.

Wrath of Mars and Plasma Specialists for sure.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Custodes:

- Shoulder the Mantle: Great for if you have an allied Imperium warlord.
- Swooping Dive: Expensive, but provides an excellent counter-charge opportunity.
- Concussion Grenades: Excellent on a squad of Allarus, split fire and that's at least 3 squads which may not be able to Overwatch.
- Piercing Strike: Small boost but can be worth it depending on the target. Have combined this with Avenge the Fallen in the past, had a single Custodian survive 6 Paladins, struck back and killed 4 of them.

An interesting fact has been found about "avenge the fallen", its maximum efficiency happens when you lose exactly half of the squad.

Tanglefoot grenades can be pretty devastating if used correctly, for me the one I use most often though is open the vaults to make sure 2 bikes have the 3++

Favorites from my armies:
Dark Angels:
-Weapons from the Dark Age: This one is just so spicy on a big unit of Hellblasters, Inceptors, or Ravenwing Black Knights. Especially if they have characters nearby to give them rerolls to hit and/or wound, making supercharging less risky.
-Intractable: I love this one too, as it keeps your shooty units from being switched off by being tagged by some random cultist/grot/Tyranid thingie.
-Speed of the Raven: I use this one to surprise opponents by suddenly moving 60" with a Dark Talon, dropping a Stasis Bomb on a unit, and then still being able to shoot. It's pretty awesome on the character Speeders or Black Knights too!

Chaos Space Marines:
-Veterans of the Long War: I don't need to explain why this one is good, do I?
-Endless Cacophony: Double shooting Oblits or Havocs or even Noise Marines? Yes please!
-Forward Operatives: Used to be better, but still great for getting a unit up in your opponent's grill early on.

Tau Empire:
-Branched Nova Charge: Getting a 3++ and the Nova Charge profile on a Riptide is awesome!
-Uplinked Markerlights: I don't run a lot of Markerlights in my Tau lists, so it's nice to maximize the ones I do have.
-Stimulant Injector: Keeps the big suits shooting at full capacity for longer, and for less CP than Automated Repair System.

Imperial Knights:
-Rotate Ion Shields: Self-explanatory.
-Order of Companions: Even at 3 CP I think this strat is still very very good. Helps you get a little more bang for your buck even with a Crusader.
-Machine Spirit Resurgent: Just like the Tau Stimulant Injector one, it's always nice to be able to keep your damaged big stuff operating at its top profile.

Tyranids:
- Voracious Appetite
- Implant Attack

Neophyte2012 wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Daemons: Our stratagems suck so.... lol.

I play Slaanesh and I consider the exploding hits strat to be OK. the -1 to hit or attack is alright as well.

I suppose generic strat would be warp surge or the deep strike strat?

Three - Four of the Daemon Stratagem do wonders in game,

Warp Surge is surely great with the +1 to inv save, put that on a unit of 9 Nurglings and you basically have the toughest unit in the whole game for their cost, I mean serious business, no joking.

The other one would be "Plague Banner", coupled with other buff for that 30 strong Plague Bearer gonna wound IK on 5s, and do 3dmg on 5s to wound and 5dmg on 6s to wound, Say goodbye to your Knight Castellan if it got charged by this horde.

The third one would be Denizens of the Warp, no need to explain it, it is the foundation of Bloodletter bomb.

The last one is situational but honestly, it nails the coffin for Grey Knight, denying the old nemesis of Daemons for being good even in fluffy casaul game in 8th edition. Yes, you might got it right, it is the Daemonic Incursion, many people may think it is tooooo situational because it is specifically against an already commonly acknowledged "weakest" army which feels like beating the dead horse. But have to say when you experienced the situation that after you focused dedicated more than half of your army's psychic onslaught, shooting and fighting to finally successfully kill that one Daemon Prince or 9 strong Tzeentch Flamer unit, but only watching helplessly when they come back at full strengh 9" away from you and annihilate you, You will know this stratagem is the final death sentence to Grey Knight in 8th edition 40K game, you will not even want to play GK for fluff. So, although situational, it cannot be underrated as it basically kills another faction in the game.

All of that is true, but it's also strats that are simply accomplishing what Daemons could normally do in previous editions someway/somehow. Minus warpsurge maybe.

I suppose my criteria was strategems that are different/crazy but also powerful. Like letting a Knight shoot on full profile when it has 1 wound left, something like that.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The best stratagems for AdMech depend on what units you're using. Conqueror Doctrina Imperative is great with Sydonian Dragoons, not worth the CP otherwise. Plasma Specialists + Elimination Volley on Ryza plasma Kataphron is a powerful combo, but the stratagems alone aren't that useful.

I have found Binharic override to be quite handy, allowing the robots to move into range, deploy their phosphor blasters and shoot key enemy infantry targets on their first turn (i also throw in the one that allows one robot to ignore the Heavy Weapon penalty to fire 18 cover ignoring shots at full effect). Only works if the enemy has key infantry targets to shoot of course...

Neophyte2012 wrote:




Warp Surge is surely great with the +1 to inv save, put that on a unit of 9 Nurglings and you basically have the toughest unit in the whole game for their cost, I mean serious business, no joking.

Don't you find the enemy will just ignore the nurglings? It's not like they are a threat... WS is good for protecting something the enemy wants to kill, like a greater daemon, in my experience...
<edit> sorry, in hindsight I see you were being sarcastic </edit>

On the grey knight issue, it's supposed to be a counterbalancing rule with GK getting specific bonuses against Daemons. I assume they do (not going to buy their codex of course...) I think Death to the False Emperor is supposed to be balanced against some Space Marine strategem that only works vs. CSM (not very balanced of course since DTTFA is always on vs. a strategem that uses resources to cast)...

I always use 2 Dakkajets so "long controlled bursts" is a good one for me.

Cheeslord wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The best stratagems for AdMech depend on what units you're using. Conqueror Doctrina Imperative is great with Sydonian Dragoons, not worth the CP otherwise. Plasma Specialists + Elimination Volley on Ryza plasma Kataphron is a powerful combo, but the stratagems alone aren't that useful.

I have found Binharic override to be quite handy, allowing the robots to move into range, deploy their phosphor blasters and shoot key enemy infantry targets on their first turn (i also throw in the one that allows one robot to ignore the Heavy Weapon penalty to fire 18 cover ignoring shots at full effect). Only works if the enemy has key infantry targets to shoot of course...

Neophyte2012 wrote:




Warp Surge is surely great with the +1 to inv save, put that on a unit of 9 Nurglings and you basically have the toughest unit in the whole game for their cost, I mean serious business, no joking.

Don't you find the enemy will just ignore the nurglings? It's not like they are a threat... WS is good for protecting something the enemy wants to kill, like a greater daemon, in my experience...
<edit> sorry, in hindsight I see you were being sarcastic </edit>

On the grey knight issue, it's supposed to be a counterbalancing rule with GK getting specific bonuses against Daemons. I assume they do (not going to buy their codex of course...) I think Death to the False Emperor is supposed to be balanced against some Space Marine strategem that only works vs. CSM (not very balanced of course since DTTFA is always on vs. a strategem that uses resources to cast)...

When those Nurglings are sitting on an important objective, or are tying up / threaten to tie up an important unit like Guilliman, then they can not be ignored So it is totally worth the CP spent on them.

I once had 2 10 men Necron Immortals buffed to +2 to hit with Sautekh Stratagem and MWBD shooting at them, followed by 1 9 strong ScarabS and 1 5 strong Wraiths charge in them, you know what, that unit of Nurglings lasted with 1 healthy model left, denied me the objective I desperately need.

As for GK, that Daemon stratagem makes them THE WORST army at neutralizing the key threat Daemons. So it kills GK in even in fluffy games.

With Space Marines I always use Chapter Master. YMMV but it's a must-take for me.

How has no one mentioned Victors of the Blood Games for Custodes? Free re-rolls per PLAYER turn on a single model for the entire game? Yes please.

Also, Wisdom of the Ancients is a 1CP auto-take for any army with a Telemon. For 1 CP he gets to re-roll ones for the entire turn? SUUURE, and his Allarus babies get it too.

For Craftworld Eldar, "Linked Fire" is great for Fire Prisms. Rerolls to hit and wound and only 1 Prism needs to be exposed to enemy fire to use it.

Lightning Fast Reflexes is great for keeping key units alive and stacks obnoxiously with other abilities like the Alaitoc Trait, Supersonic and Shimmerplume helm.

Fire and Fade is another grreat one, particularly for keeping big units of Reapers safe as they are otherwise quite fragile.