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2019/06/26 14:52:19
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Togusa wrote: It's not cancer, it's surprise exponential cell growth!
It's not an apocalyptic impact of a Asteroid, it's a surprise space nudge.
God.
....
I feel EA now.
Someone in my office this week said "It's not pedophilia, it's early access!"
I both laughed and simultaneously died a little in side hearing that. I could see that EA lady actually saying this, and it makes it ten times worse...
Here is the thing. When it comes to the stories he plays in that little video (This is why I really don't like Jim) is because he cherry picks the WORST cases and then tries to hold them up as proof that he is right and everyone else is wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/04 00:22:06
2019/07/05 06:26:28
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
In a way we lost a whole Generation of potentially great games to this practices with artificial inflated grind and terribad mechanics.
Look at Fallout 76. The potential for that game, had it been a true single player fallout game was immense. Ripe for story telling and exploring a wasteland just a couple of decades after the war. Unfortunately, even Bethesda saw the dollar signs. :(
2019/07/09 15:02:54
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Overread wrote: True then again MS hasn't done much with Age of Empires over the years either. AoE 3 is a thing, but they've not touched it since and there was a pretty long gap between 2 and 3. Their HD remakes are doing well though and are overall decent, though their expansions for their Age of Mythology game got a very low reception (I think mostly because it wasn't put together right and was basically a mod that re-used assets rather than trying to add anything new to the core game itself).
Game design is really stagnant right now, it's been that way for several years. What really boggles my mind is that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to preform some simple public testing to see what the public is looking for. When FO4 launched, I remember the EA CEO saying via his twitter account that single player games were dead and that DRM-Online games were the future. It only took a few days for FO4 to outsell, by a large margin EA's poster child for online gaming, Star Wars Battlefront game which had also just released. Metal Gear Solid V, for all its faults cost nearly 80 million USD to make, and in three days turned a profit of nearly 200 million dollars. That was a PROFIT of 200 Mil in THREE DAYS.
AOE4 or AOM2 would most-likely bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in profit, but for some reason all the dev community gets to make these days are more bland, uninspired manure.
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Melissia wrote: Hell if they were given more time and freedom, Renegade could have been a lot better than it was. It wasn't a bad game.
Renegade was an amazing concept of a game, for a fantastic universe. I probably put 60 hours of game play into that game when it came out. Absolutely adored it, the look and feel of the game at the time was pretty unique, and it felt amazing to drive tanks I'd seen for years from the top down.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 15:04:23
2019/07/16 20:45:16
Subject: Re:Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
I read the article and had to LOL at the oxford professor who felt there need to be more evidence before loot boxes could be called gambling, now I ain’t no Oxford prof but I can use a dictionary so I feel safe in saying loot boxes are gambling we might need more evidence for the impact but meh.
What do you know a quick dictionary search and even if you use the weak argument that it’s not gambling because you don’t win money it meets a further definition of “2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result.”
Oh it's gambling. No doubt. I hate what it has done to games too, hence why I go out of my way to not support games that feature any of these mechanics.
But once again.... be responsible and don't give kids the ability to access your credit card for in-game purchases? In general young kids do not understand the value of money or how to be responsible with it yet, so when you give them access, don't be surprised that something like this happens.
2019/07/16 21:00:41
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
But once again.... be responsible and don't give kids the ability to access your credit card for in-game purchases? In general young kids do not understand the value of money or how to be responsible with it yet, so when you give them access, don't be surprised that something like this happens.
Whilest true, do you really think that will stop EA manipulating with the free trial S of lootboxes as rewards? Or Actibliz?
Also remember this game is rated E, last time i'd checked a three year old or a 12 or even 17 year old don't get access to slot machines, now don't they.
They'll never stop unless they're forced to or the system becomes unable to stack fat profit for the company.
2019/07/16 21:32:41
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
But once again.... be responsible and don't give kids the ability to access your credit card for in-game purchases? In general young kids do not understand the value of money or how to be responsible with it yet, so when you give them access, don't be surprised that something like this happens.
Whilst true, do you really think that will stop EA manipulating with the free trial S of lootboxes as rewards? Or Actibliz? Also remember this game is rated E, last time i'd checked a three year old or a 12 or even 17 year old don't get access to slot machines, now don't they.
They'll never stop unless they're forced to or the system becomes unable to stack fat profit for the company.
So basically enforce a real standard of age gating / Rating system and enforce lootboxes as gambling as well as micro-transactions as manipulating and Instantly slap an M on it on top of duties for the publishers?
Ya that could work. Although government action is really disliked on some places. Still everything that solves these issues right now is better then more generations of gaming being squandered with artificial grind and gakky incomplete state.
... Kinda sad really. I remember a time were pre order dlc was considered the Epitome of evil in gaming.
Heh, I remember that too. I can recall having many discussions about the first few times Call of Duty featured DLC packs (I think it started with MW3?) but I don't know. I was going to say parents should parent. I'm not keen on the government getting involved, though that may end up being unavoidable...
But as I see it, there is a rabbit hole here. Once the lootbox controversy either picks up and gets dealt with by the various government and regulatory systems, the hammer won't stop. CCG's are very much in this gray area of gambling too. What happens to those games?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/16 21:34:03
2019/07/17 02:55:19
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Not Online!!! wrote: Hmm actually ccg would Fall under gambling.
Actually lootboxes are more like Fraud, considering that the virtual items are literally Un sellable after game x shuts down.
So not only is it gambling but also fraudelent one?
Yikes
Edit: altough cardpacks are not artificial pleasing sensory wise unlike slotmachines or loot boxes.
They are. I played MTG for years and got all kinds of great feels when opening packs of cards, the older the set, the better too. But it is an interesting question, if this were to swing wide, MTG is basically what keeps a lot of FLGS open, if it were to be regulated, this could be catastrophic.
2019/07/17 17:15:53
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Edit: altough cardpacks are not artificial pleasing sensory wise unlike slotmachines or loot boxes.
Sure they are. They've been very well designed to open in such a way that you encounter increasingly rarer cards until you hit the shiny one at the back. Watch anyone open a box and you'll see the ritual develop rather quickly.
That is still not actually as bad as the massive visual and audio cues you get from a lootbox or slot machine now isn't it?
Have you ever been into MTG?
If not, then stop dude.
I can recall getting so "high" off those cards that I once dropped 400$ on boxes in one night just to try and get a super rare card I wanted. It took two and a half boxes to do it. There isn't any difference, addiction is addiction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/17 17:16:21
2019/07/17 19:55:37
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
SeanDrake wrote: Actually most CCG's should be fine theres a reason that they all run along the lines of each 8 card pack having a minimum amount of commons,uncommons and rares.
While the cards you get are random the quality has a fixed minimum so its impossible to buy 6 packs and get 48 common cards.
As opposed to loot boxes were you can drop hundred's of dollars and pull all trash tier, that combined with being able to sell and buy from other people outside of the publishers should give them a strong defense against it being gambling.
Also we often don't know the chances of getting a specific drop rarity.
box mapping would kind of disagree, (its basically reverse engineering how the print sheet is laid out and how the cards are randomised during packing, its not infalliable but it usually provides a near enough result)
and whilst I'm off the cardboard crack CCGs are a far lesser evil as wotc or ffg don't expect you to pay £40 before you can even crack a booster
I disagree. They definitely encourage players to drop 150$ on a box over "just a few packs."
2019/07/17 22:23:41
Subject: Re:Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Turnip Jedi wrote: yeah maybe but there's quite the difference between that and purposefully compromising game design to sell you an answer to said problems
lucky for me that my general tightfistedness means I've got a £10ish limit on video game purchases rendering me largely immune to surprise wotsits (my ancient pc also helps here)
Turnip Jedi wrote: yeah maybe but there's quite the difference between that and purposefully compromising game design to sell you an answer to said problems
lucky for me that my general tightfistedness means I've got a £10ish limit on video game purchases rendering me largely immune to surprise wotsits (my ancient pc also helps here)
Ubisoft with assasins creed Odyssee is one of the more recent exemples of making the grind agrivating in order to sell you XP boosters.
But if players create missions for that from provided Tools it's suddenly against the "spirit of the game".
We live in strange times. Remember when games were about fun?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/17 22:25:14
2019/07/17 22:33:57
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Overread wrote: Wait Assassin's Creed - a singleplayer game - sells you experience boosters? You know I'd actually rank that worse than random loot boxes. I mean its not like either of them are ranking very high at all, but darn that's just really scummy. I know it's how the MMO market survives, but at least there the game companies have to keep the servers running - there's a continual cost for the developer so having some means of trickle income for them is justifiable to some extent - be it from subscriptions or optional boosters or cosmetics.
Oh it's not just that. They purposefully make the exp in the game way more grindy and you almost NEED those boosters.
This is why I've not bought any of their games since FC4.
2019/07/17 22:46:58
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Melissia wrote: Agreed. It was such a horrendous grind that I still haven't beaten the game, I jsut stopped and haven't cared cause it was so dragged out, and I sure as hell am not buying gakky xp booster.
It was a bit easier for me because I've never really liked that style of gameplay, and this game was my introduction to the series. When I saw the XP Boosters and the skins I just said "no thank you" and I was really glad that I was playing it on a friends machine and not my own.
2019/07/18 03:03:26
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Melissia wrote: TBH it was my first Assassin's Creed game, and also now my last. I've never been a HUGE fan of ubisoft action games aside from just playing around with friends.
Thing is, the gameplay was decent enough that I'd have gone through with it anyway to the end, except the grind got excessive and they always put the next mission a few levels above, literally scaling as I gained levels so gained levels felt useless, but taking on enemies higher level was worse than trying to sequence-skip in a dark souls game.
No good. I am not a fan of that type of game play. Stuff like Skyrim and Fallout are more my style.
2019/07/18 15:58:13
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Not Online!!! wrote: Fallout? Or skyrim?
From no advantage for gameplay bethesda?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Over the years I've been pretty lucky, so far I've yet to have a major issue with FO4 or Skyrim. Fo3 a few times axed my save files, but I always made backups so, I've never really been into the whole "bethesda makes bad bugs" memes, because I just don't think they're as bad as most people claim.
Ratius wrote: Never had those issues tbh.
What let BF down was the tedious outside the animus in the office bits.
Yeah I still don't quite the the point of that. First time it happened its jarring and then you are sort of led around and you do the whole "walk after someone whilst they talk at you because pressing the w key is more fun than just watching a cinematic..." and then you're back to the game you actually want to play. Esp as the out of animus bit didn't add any mystery or content or game.
The style of the AC games just doesn't interest me. I get the point, it's just, not my cup of coffee.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/18 16:00:20
2019/07/18 20:50:37
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
LordofHats wrote: I stopped giving a gak about AC when Ubisoft stopped giving a gak about coherence.
The Assassin's Creed movie was the perfect adaptation of the franchise. No one knows what's going on. No one has any clue why anything is happening. The plot is nonsensical from start to finish and oh hey look someone just stabbed someone lets go do some stabbing.
AC in a nutshell
Specaking of, what is the basic story of this franchise? Why are you assassinating all these people? And what's with the weird history jumping stuff and the really weird high tech scenes I've seen.
2019/07/22 15:28:17
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (AKA EA inserts foot in mouth... again)
Specaking of, what is the basic story of this franchise? Why are you assassinating all these people? And what's with the weird history jumping stuff and the really weird high tech scenes I've seen.
I don't know what it is now. Which is the joke.
TLDR;
Assassins and Templars are secret orders waging secret wars against one another all over the globe throughout history to control various alien artifacts. Yes the series spirals into ancient aliens by the end of the first game completely randomly with zero foreshadowing and then proceeds to make less and less sense as each new entry contrives new reasons to keep telling the story.
To be fair though I'm not sure anyone is in it for the story anymore.
It sounds like gak. I'm glad I've skipped these games.
BaconCatBug wrote: Disingenuous to claim that at best. 50 countries have not "banned" the new GTAV update, Rockstar has not made it available to those countries.
Do you have a reputable news source for that claim?
Really? Nitpicking over something like this? What, did having your thread shut down leave you salty enough to try and be "RAW" for IRL stuff like this too?
Your search fu is weak, that or you got confirmation bias coming out of your ears.
Forbes is also not reputable. They allow anyone and everyone to write for them, no better than Buzzfeed. There is also nothing in the article to corroborate the clickbait headline.
Reddit put together a list of over 50 countries with gambling laws that appear to be restricting the gambling features of GTA Online, some with conflicting reports.
Oh wow, ok so random redditors are now authoritative sources? It even says "some with conflicting reports" so it's not even trying to claim to corroborate.
If the articles aren't what you want, can you provide a "reputable" article that supports the counter claim you're making? Looking into this, it seems pretty straight forward, that some countries have indeed laws that has essentially banned said update.
BaconCatBug wrote: Just, please, stop. IGN, Forbes and Kotaku are all corrupt, untrustworthy sites.
Your claim that countries "banned" it suggest that Rockstar released it in those countries, and then had legal action taken to no longer allow it in those countries. Rockstar preemptively preventing those countries from accessing is is not the countries "banning" it, it's Rockstar not wanting to start the legal proceedings to get it banned in the first place.
Yes, it's semantics, but semantics exist for a reason and the distinction is important.
You know just because you don't like something, doesn't make it automatically unuseable. I've still seen good journalism from Fox News...
On the topic of Rockstar, this is the exact reason why I won't be supporting their company any longer. GTA5 was a fun game, but it's had zero offline content.
2019/07/26 16:15:43
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
Bharring wrote: Counterpoint, at least as far as Rockstar is concerned:
RDR2 is a masterpiece.
Whatever faults Rockstar has, they clearly produced an excellent singleplayer game.
Unpopular Opinion: The game is mediocre, and it's story is mediocre.
Better go get cover, the barage of rockstar Fans will be incoming.
Jokes aside, it wasn't bad.
Just, ech idk.
It was fun, I spent around 24-30 hours in game doing the story stuff. Once that was done however, I had no other reason to keep playing. I just found the game to be mediocre.
2019/09/04 15:38:38
Subject: Re:Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
Virtuel slot machine for 3 year olds
Wp, Wp.
Industry standard just dropped lower somehow.
Somewhat related, but every time I see that big red "EPIC FAIL" letter tag on a video, it comes from one of those Youtoube edgeboy channels. I can't think of his name, but that whiny beared dude who got kicked out of magic uses it all the time when he rants about marvel movies daring to have female characters. I just can't take it seriously anymore.
But yeah, that trailer literally looks like it came straight out of a vegas casino. Holy gak that is incredible.
2019/09/16 22:35:53
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
Melissia wrote: On a more serious note, taking advantage of the vulnerable is despicable. There's a reason why Japan regulates TCGs and Gacha games to force them to give a higher level of transparency. The USA honestly could follow suit in that regard..
So I am a little bit dubious of the whole "I'm a victim of loot boxes" argument that has been going around. While I don't like lootboxes or other surprise mechanics making their way into games, I could only find about half a dozen verifiable stories of people losing a significant amount of money due to what I would call a legitimate gambling problem. While even one might be too many, it's far from the epidemic that Stirling would have us believe it is.
I'm concerned that this narrative is being pushed because of how "scary" it is. Addiction is quite a frighting disorder for one to have to deal with, and I feel that some of the opponents of surprise mechanics are using it to pump up support.
I feel like there is a better way to deal with surprise mechanics than to either outright regulate them or ban them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 22:36:24
2019/09/17 17:26:45
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
Togusa wrote: I feel like there is a better way to deal with surprise mechanics than to either outright regulate them or ban them.
The fact that you keep using that phrase over and over again just tells us that you've bought into EA's bull gak.
I don't support them though. I generally view surprise mechanics as a waste of money, but at the same time a lot of the games I play don't have them in the game. So it's easier for me to avoid them I think.
2019/09/17 20:34:10
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
Togusa wrote: I feel like there is a better way to deal with surprise mechanics than to either outright regulate them or ban them.
The fact that you keep using that phrase over and over again just tells us that you've bought into EA's bull gak.
I don't support them though. I generally view surprise mechanics as a waste of money, but at the same time a lot of the games I play don't have them in the game. So it's easier for me to avoid them I think.
Most of the games I play don't have them in either, the thing is though they are spreading into more titles and the big developers were all eying them up. The issue then is that today they don't affect you; but tomorrow they end up doing so. Already you've got Assassin's Creed - singleplayer adventure/RPG game iwth them sneaking it in and a full on gambling room in a Basketball sim up above. So its already creeping well outside of the "multiplayer shooter games" and such. How long before they appear in more RPG games (Dragon Age 4 for example is under MS and could easily end up with micro transaction loot - surprise box horse armour and experience booster cards - al lwhislt being singleplayer); or RTS; or TBS?!
Very worrisome.
2019/09/19 01:49:16
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
It's so bad and ubified that, well Sterling is drunk and the other two aussies jumped on it.
So I've been playing it since Saturday and there is nothing wrong with the game. I understand that the weekend patches already fixed a number of issues with the game. So far, my experience with it has been great. I'm enjoying to story and the game play, and I really, really like the way they created and handled all their side-quests here. Personally, I think the internet is once again running things way out of proportion in order to feed the need for outrage.
2019/10/15 16:52:26
Subject: Surprise Mechanics (Loot boxes and other horrible mechanics currently plaguing games)
