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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 15:54:29
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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With the codex previews coming thick and fast I thought it would be good to get some chat going on how to get the best out of your spikey knights.
Here is a brief summary from codex reviews.
Units
Household Ambitions
Stratergems
Artifacts
Warlord Traits
Dreadblades
Points
Full glacial geek preview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZu56S6-fUU
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This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2019/07/09 23:35:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 16:55:31
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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There are some interesting things here BUT this codex totally feels phoned in. Most of it is imperial knights just chaos, with a lot of the same strats and very few actual "chaos" things.
I do like the idea of demonic surge, getting t9 for that cruical early game could be awesome. But again it would be better if it happened beginning of the round and not your turn.
Any idea on cost of codex yet? Definatly doesnt look like its worth 40$...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 17:01:51
Subject: Re:Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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It's up for preoder for $40 or £25. I think it's a vast improvement on the index but doesn't have the most chaos only flavour yet.
Unfortunately I think we'll have to wait for another edition for 3 or 4 truly chaos knights, rather than the 2(ish) new options in the new kit. But at least we can now use them in games and not feel like we're the poor relation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 17:27:14
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
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Speculation hat on (we'll see how well this post ages) but on initial view the codex really seems to push for a single knight in a chaos soup army.
Regular knights have the ability to be run pretty pure with several big guys. Chaos knights seem like they are best taken as a teched choice to round out chaos soup. If you need a big bruiser or a dual gat knight that can ignore minuses to hit you can select what you need.
I'm doubting we will see pure chaos knights lists making any top tables but I'm quite sure we will see many winning chaos lists with a single knight attached.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 18:59:25
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
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I sadly completely agree that this was phoned in. So much copy and paste from the IK codex. And no marks, it feels like a let down. They could have done so much more.
That said, it feels like the best option is going to be an aux choice vs full super hea y detachment. I can see running one to help level out an army
The vows are really interesting, wish there were more than 3. But the 3 will let you tailor your list some depending on the lost you are facing and will mean youre looking at a chaos knight and 2 to 3 CP to fully utilize them
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 20:06:34
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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buddha wrote:
I'm doubting we will see pure chaos knights lists making any top tables but I'm quite sure we will see many winning chaos lists with a single knight attached.
The same could be said for pure imperial knights but 3 in imperial soup is very strong
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/06 20:06:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 20:24:05
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The one advantage i see with a single chaos knight vs imperial is since our "household traits" equal choice a or b then going super auxiliary detachment doesnt prevent getting the "count as double wounds" trait as chaos is a relic instead of a household trait. That may make it ok.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 20:48:43
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Regular Dakkanaut
Canada
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Anyone know what knight combo might be good with a Tsons army?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 21:11:07
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
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Ideasweasel wrote: buddha wrote:
I'm doubting we will see pure chaos knights lists making any top tables but I'm quite sure we will see many winning chaos lists with a single knight attached.
The same could be said for pure imperial knights but 3 in imperial soup is very strong
True but my prediction is you won't see three chaos knights in soup but you will likely see one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 22:02:38
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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Ah got ya. I’m keen to try 3 with Magnus and Morty for a laugh but it’s probably not very viable
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 22:17:42
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Dakka Veteran
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Would very much like to take a knight with my budding Asia legion force to provide anti tank!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 23:12:27
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think tsons is where its at with the knights at the moment. Tsons are amazing but their big weakness is no good anti tank. Castellen, armigers, these look like they will nicely mix well with tsons anti infantry stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/06 23:26:43
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Brainy Zoanthrope
Boston, MA
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Ideasweasel wrote:Ah got ya. I’m keen to try 3 with Magnus and Morty for a laugh but it’s probably not very viable
God that sounds amazing
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/07 08:14:00
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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PUFNSTUF wrote:Anyone know what knight combo might be good with a Tsons army?
The Castellan could be a useful ally if you want some big time anti tank. With the vow of dominance and with the 4++ relic. I think it has the edge over the imperial version.
A knight with aenger gatling cannon, thermal cannon with stormspear is a decent budget replacement, plus you can take the -to hit relic. 200+ points cheaper.
If you're just wanting to have something to soak fire and run up the board with Ahriman and 2 daemon princes the rampager is cheap, cheerful and potentially very potent. Stick the relic chainsword on it and give it the +1 attack warlord trait for 7 chainsword attacks or 18 stomps and a chainsword attack.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/07 08:37:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/07 12:31:47
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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Ideasweasel wrote:Ah got ya. I’m keen to try 3 with Magnus and Morty for a laugh but it’s probably not very viable
If you have the points, this would be super viable. Unless you need to be playing top tables, lists with the brothers can just smash in the mid tables. There would be games that would be hard to lose using three knights and Magnus and Morty.
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Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/07 13:14:45
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Reckon 3 double avenger knights with 60 ish plaguebearers could have a competitive place? Seems to me that super reliable firepower plus good obsec could be pretty decent.
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Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/07 13:38:05
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Hellacious Havoc
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I think running 3 Lord Discordants with a Castellan or Valliant might also be something worth while.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/07 19:05:50
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Can we have a breakdown of what we know in the OP?
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/07 19:13:10
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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I'll put together a summary of a decent chunk of what we know, I'll leave the link up for people who want all the detail.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 10:40:37
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Here's a fun combo-Sonic the chaos knight
Take a melee knight
Make him an infernal household (demonic hunger)
Make him warlord with Eager for the Kill trait
Give him Quicksilver Throne of Slaanesh
2 CP for Full Tilt
+2 movement
+3 advance
+3 charge
Always fight first
+1 attack in enemy deployment zone
So, your "basic" knight gets a 20+3d6 charge range, always fights first (good if enemy also happens to have this ability) and gets an extra attack if you went all the way inside enemy deployment zone-and you likely will.
A Cerastus type would have 22+4d6 charge range, and honestly that's probably overkill realm.
Its not Sonic the Genestealer, but heck its enough.
Dreadblade options seems also pretty good.
A shooty knight with Knower of Profane Secrets, Forsaken, Warp Fudge is very unlikely to trigger his damnations-and even if he does, he hardly cares. meanwhile he pumps out CPs while alive.
Also, keep in mind that your shooty knight that needs not move-can summon his own bubblewarp.
For the TS, Desecrator with the Diamonas relic watching over some war dogs, probably in an infernal house-this will cover the lack of AT weapons quite well. but will cost a heafty sum of points.
S16 is something that cannot be ignored. even if "only" 3 shots at d6 damage each.
Overall it seems like chaos knights, while lacking in options, can put up a fight to imperials by the fact the few things they have are pretty powerful, and mesh well together.
I mean, despite having so little options you still get spoiled for choice. there are a LOT of strong relics/traits/pact/etc
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 11:50:54
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Ship's Officer
London
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I think chaos knights could be decent, thanks to the combos. Things like death hex will be major advantages.
Basically a dual gat knight that ignores modifiers to hit will do good things. It’s not even all that expensive.
One downside is that it might be your only vehicle. Chaos lists that I see tend to feature either no vehicles, or sometimes a bunch of PBCs. But the lists with lots of FW dreads could potentially benefit from adding one of these guys.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 12:16:17
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Ambitious Acothyst With Agonizer
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BoomWolf wrote:
Dreadblade options seems also pretty good.
A shooty knight with Knower of Profane Secrets, Forsaken, Warp Fudge is very unlikely to trigger his damnations-and even if he does, he hardly cares. meanwhile he pumps out CPs while alive.
Profane Secrets only generates a CP on the first battle round unfortunately.
BoomWolf wrote:
Also, keep in mind that your shooty knight that needs not move-can summon his own bubblewarp.
This is the really powerful part. Being able to summon a screen of brimstones for 30pts on a 4+ on 2d6 is pretty handy. Or a Nurgle Herald for shrivelling pox (-1 to targets toughness) to boost the damage output of those avengers gatling cannons. Or an Infernal Enrapturess for a 24" perils on doubles bubble for some psychic defence. Or flamers for some extra horde clearing. Summoning meshes really well with chaos knights.
Personally, I really like the new codex, it has a lot of flexibility on the fly for tailoring to your matchup.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 15:29:22
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Naive questions at this stage pre-codex - did the avenger gatling knight with heavy flamers go up in cost? As near as I can tell the knight base model is the same but the avenger gatling cannons are now 85 a pop with flamers now costing 14, bringing the total cost per wep to 99 - which previously was 89. So a 20 points increase if using 2? If anyone knows please share - otherwise will have to wait for the codex to drop.
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2019/06/30/codex-chaos-knights-leak-compilation/
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/08 15:30:13
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 15:49:36
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Ship's Officer
London
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Interesting. The gatling is probably under-costed, so it makes sense. I wonder if they'll do this for Imperial Knights too.
It could also just be a typo of course.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 18:12:12
Subject: Re:Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Been Around the Block
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But battle canon and thermal canon are cheaper than imperial it's may be just to make the double gatling harder to take.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 18:34:11
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Morphing Obliterator
The Void
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How will these cheaper Knights compare to the Kytan? It's also fairly cheap for a super heavy, but it has Daemon and so can use some nice buffs and strats.
You can of course do both. We could always warptime a Kytan for a 1st turn charge. Couple that with one of those above speed builds and it'll get crazy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/08 18:36:43
Always 1 on the crazed roll. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:08:38
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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Drudge Dreadnought wrote:How will these cheaper Knights compare to the Kytan? It's also fairly cheap for a super heavy, but it has Daemon and so can use some nice buffs and strats.
You can of course do both. We could always warptime a Kytan for a 1st turn charge. Couple that with one of those above speed builds and it'll get crazy.
I think with knights you buff them with stratergems rather than using psykers or lord discordants, which are all additional points. So if you have the CP I think knights have the edge. Kytan and sorcerer, 508 points. Knight with thermal spear, chainsword and stormspear rockets 510 points. Similar mele, knight weapons are d6 damage vs 2, has more wounds and better stratergems. Only edge kytan has is 5++ in melee.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:30:17
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Morphing Obliterator
The Void
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small_gods wrote: Drudge Dreadnought wrote:How will these cheaper Knights compare to the Kytan? It's also fairly cheap for a super heavy, but it has Daemon and so can use some nice buffs and strats.
You can of course do both. We could always warptime a Kytan for a 1st turn charge. Couple that with one of those above speed builds and it'll get crazy.
I think with knights you buff them with stratergems rather than using psykers or lord discordants, which are all additional points. So if you have the CP I think knights have the edge. Kytan and sorcerer, 508 points. Knight with thermal spear, chainsword and stormspear rockets 510 points. Similar mele, knight weapons are d6 damage vs 2, has more wounds and better stratergems. Only edge kytan has is 5++ in melee.
In a vacuum, sure. But it's not entirely right to add the cost of the buffing unit to the cost of the Kytan because you'll be taking other units in your army anyway. For example, the Kytan can benefit from HQ auras, and your gonna need to have those in your other detachments. If you're running a Prince, Disco, or Greater Possessed for other reasons, the Kytan gets a lot stronger.
And even if we don't count buffs from other units, it gets some nice strats too. Daemonforge is only 1 CP and gives re-roll all hit and wound rolls, and can be used in both Shooting and Fight phase. And depending on the Legion, it may be able to use the Legion strat (Iron Within, Iron Without especially notable.) The Kytan has less variety of strats, but may still end up with the edge.
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Always 1 on the crazed roll. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:51:47
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Hellacious Havoc
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How do people feel towards infernal Castellans? I feel like their damage potential is really high. The ability to reroll hits, ones to wound and have s9 plasma cannons with 3 flat damage seems crazy. Sure its expensive but it can dish out a sick ton of pain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 20:48:19
Subject: Codex Chaos Knights - Honour Through Annihilation
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Barnie25 wrote:How do people feel towards infernal Castellans? I feel like their damage potential is really high. The ability to reroll hits, ones to wound and have s9 plasma cannons with 3 flat damage seems crazy. Sure its expensive but it can dish out a sick ton of pain.
Vows are for Iconoclast Knights only, so you can't have both a S9 Plasma Cannon and be rerolling 1s to wound.
That said, the Infernal Tyrant is completely blown out of the water by the House Raven Castellan. With Cawl's Wrath their Plasma Cannon is also S9, D3 (and with AP-4 to boot), and they can reroll failed hit rolls of 1, wound rolls of 1, damage rolls of 1, and random shot rolls of 1. Chaos Tyrants don't hold a candle to that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/08 20:48:38
Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it. |
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