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I bought CA2019 last week, but I'm only just getting round to reading it (finishing off painting a Knight Despoiler and reading a Black Library novel got in the way)...

From what I've read so far it seems to me that 8th edition has now achieved maturity with no new matched play rules since CA2018, and only a few truly new missions. The rest of CA2019 being points updates and tweaks to existing missions. Whilst I'm happy about this, I'm also nervous the that the rumours about 9th edition landing soon might be correct. I mean GW aren't going to want players like me to stop buying rules now are they?

I guess if GW were to release a new BRB in the summer of 2020 (as per the rumours) that would be okay, as long as it was compatible with my 8th edition codexes (Ultramarines/SM 2.0 and Chaos Knights released in July/August this year). If my codexes become obsolete only a year after they were released I think I would be less happy (especially as I've already had to buy the SM rules again this edition).

What are your thoughts on 8th edition's maturity and the potential for a 9th edition?

These 'rumors' seem to be circular and feeding themselves. Somebody asks if 9th is coming and suddenly it's a rumor that 9th is coming and people ask if 9th is coming.

I have thrown the hat in with 8th and I played from 3rd on.

No GW I will not purchase your allegedly mandatory rules updates nor your half arsed attempts at campaigns which give you yet more rules.

GW is addicted to rules bloat and the books they can shift with it. We are right back in 6/7th era. Allegedly 8th was meant to be streamlined for new players. Good luck with that and don't put your back out carrying all those books.

If 9th does drop it will be nothing more than a rules consolidated version of 8th which, as time has shown, will be rife with errors and have multiple FAQs released within a month of launch.

I think that 9th is inevitable but rumours aren't really a reliable measure of when it will drop.
All I know is I hope they change the rules up a lot because I'm not a huge fan of 8th.

Rule changes won\t be super dramatic though as it's pretty much quaranteed that existing codexes will be compatible which limits what you can do. Stratagems for example aren't going anywhere. CP generation might change a bit though.

We'll see. It's starting to get to the time new edition would be released though.

I think its just a few blogs fishing for 9th edition rumours which mostly ends up being just pure rumour which tend to be circular "leaks" that are more wishlists that just keep getting spread around.

Considering that GW hasn't even finished 8th edition fully (technically Sisters of Battle are not yet fully out with their retail release) and consider that GW now has the Chapter Approved every year it would seem very odd to suddenly go into launching a new edition this soon.

Not if its like the AoS 2.0 'edition.' Just a general cleanup

What are your thoughts on 8th edition's maturity and the potential for a 9th edition?

Considering CA19 just made the first real attempt at terrain rules, the edition still feels very immature.

But neither mature rules or immature rules is a flag for an edition change- all too often that's dictated by the need for sales spike, not the state of the rules. Consider how quickly 7th happened, and made a functional game system much worse. And then brought absolute ruin in the flood of secondary books.

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Personally I don't see an edition change doing much good. CPs aside, most of the problems stem from the avalanche of special snowflake rules in the flood of codexes and supplements, not the core rules. An edition change would be relatively meaningless unless they also invalidate the last year of releases at the same time.

AoS 2.0 was much more than a clean up. Rules wise it was giving most armies actual army themed rules since the 0.5 and 1.0 were just old warscrolls in a book with some lore.

AoS "clean up" more refers to sorting out the armies themselves in terms of their final compositions and which armies and models stayed and which were let go.

I've spoken with a Warhammer Store manager that told me they had a huge reunion planned for summer 2020 with all of the European managers. He said such reunions only happened on big events like for 8th Edition, the AoS release and so on, so bets are open.

I'd love a radical change to the actual 40k rules (like the death of IGOUGO) but I wonder if they'd dare do that a couple months after Psychic Awakening. Wouldn't be the first time they sold rules valid for 3 months though so who knows ?

In any case the only GW books I buy are my army books, supplements, CA, GHB for AoS I can find the information I need online. I don't have the kind of money to buy 8 books for a few pages of content relevant to my factions for every game I play.

depends if anyone at GW recalls the salt tsunami of the short turn around of 6th to 7th

also there is most likely at least another 6-9 months of piskik awakening, releasing 9th straight after that would be choosing poorly

then again GW might be so high on their on trouser trumps I wouldnt rule it out

9th was confirmed from the same sources which told us all good leaks about PA and CA 2019 (none of the nonsense about Cult Marines gettng 2 wounds etc).

Sources said 9th will come after PA is done and PA should be done around or during June 2020.

Same sources said Marines and SoB are "9th edition Codex" by stating the following : if you have something you lose when you soup, it is a 9th edition Codex.

We don't know anything else beyond that.

You're welcome. You can now close this thread.

Voss wrote:
Considering CA19 just made the first real attempt at terrain rules, the edition still feels very immature.

Are the latest battlefield terrain rules in CA2019 very different from those in CA2018 (I haven't read that far yet)?

tneva82 wrote:
Rule changes won\t be super dramatic though as it's pretty much quaranteed that existing codexes will be compatible which limits what you can do. Stratagems for example aren't going anywhere. CP generation might change a bit though.

We'll see. It's starting to get to the time new edition would be released though.

People forget how long older editions lasted. 3rd was around for like 6 years. A well-designed ruleset doesn't require constant updating. Not that 3rd was amazing but it was a well-executed reboot that simplified the game and made it accessible for new players, quite unlike 8th which had the same design goals.

 Overread wrote:
I think its just a few blogs fishing for 9th edition rumours which mostly ends up being just pure rumour which tend to be circular "leaks" that are more wishlists that just keep getting spread around.

Considering that GW hasn't even finished 8th edition fully (technically Sisters of Battle are not yet fully out with their retail release) and consider that GW now has the Chapter Approved every year it would seem very odd to suddenly go into launching a new edition this soon.

Complete editions are exceedingly rare for GW. So on the contrary getting close to completion is usually good sign gw will soon release new edition

And very odd? Since when is pushing "print me money" button odd for gw? seems fairly standard.

GW has shown no sign they have abandoned 20+ year old system they have which is working in making money.

To be fair, 3rd had its own set of updates, they did multiple Chapter Approved books with rules updates & FAQ and where they updated transport vehicles and rebooted the assault phase rules partway through using CA, and had a fair number of issues that really could have used some updates

Pointed Stick wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Rule changes won\t be super dramatic though as it's pretty much quaranteed that existing codexes will be compatible which limits what you can do. Stratagems for example aren't going anywhere. CP generation might change a bit though.

We'll see. It's starting to get to the time new edition would be released though.

People forget how long older editions lasted. 3rd was around for like 6 years. A well-designed ruleset doesn't require constant updating. Not that 3rd was amazing but it was a well-executed reboot that simplified the game and made it accessible for new players, quite unlike 8th which had the same design goals.

Yes. But GW has been upping the pace and 8th ed has already outlived couple editions. Unless gw winds back their system over decade back it's more likely to be short period between than long.

 Overread wrote:
I think its just a few blogs fishing for 9th edition rumours which mostly ends up being just pure rumour which tend to be circular "leaks" that are more wishlists that just keep getting spread around.

Considering that GW hasn't even finished 8th edition fully (technically Sisters of Battle are not yet fully out with their retail release) and consider that GW now has the Chapter Approved every year it would seem very odd to suddenly go into launching a new edition this soon.

GW has had yearly Chapter Approved & Generals Handbook (for the fantasy side) volumes in editions past - wich included new options, errata, missions, army lists, etc etc etc, modeling sections, you know all that stuff you find in 8th ed CAs - and it never prevented the release of a new edition.

You are right though in that it'd be a bit soon for a new edition. Other than the 6th ---> 7th 2 year jump anomaly, a 40k edition runs about 4-5 years. 8th only turns 3 this coming summer. And they can milk it by re-doing the books for Necrons, Tau, etc. So between summer of '21 & '22 is my guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000


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tneva82 wrote:

Pointed Stick wrote:

Yes. But GW has been upping the pace and 8th ed has already outlived couple editions. Unless gw winds back their system over decade back it's more likely to be short period between than long.

It's outlived one edition (6th).
This summer it'll tie another (7th).

It's just that they've barraged you with so much **** these past 2.5 years that you're as tired of 8th now as you were at the end of 4th or 5th.....

 Overread wrote:
AoS 2.0 was much more than a clean up. Rules wise it was giving most armies actual army themed rules since the 0.5 and 1.0 were just old warscrolls in a book with some lore.

AoS "clean up" more refers to sorting out the armies themselves in terms of their final compositions and which armies and models stayed and which were let go.

No, when I say 'clean up,' I mean the core rules. The core rules didn't change all that much- what happens in the various phases of the battlerounds just got an editing pass and ridiculous nonsense about measuring from the model and worrying about horizontal spears impacting the number of inches a model can move if it turns went away.

Getting around to releasing battletomes and purging old models is a different issue. Both would have happened eventually regardless of whether AoS stayed at 1.0 or moved on to 2.0.

Similarly, if 40k does go to 9th, the problems of codexes and supplements will stick unless specifically purged by GW fiat (invalidating recent books, which will hack people off) or gradual replacement.

ccs wrote:

You are right though in that it'd be a bit soon for a new edition. Other than the 6th ---> 7th 2 year jump anomaly, a 40k edition runs about 4-5 years. 8th only turns 3 this coming summer. And they can milk it by re-doing the books for Necrons, Tau, etc. So between summer of '21 & '22 is my guess.

7th->8th, aos 1st->2nd.

And rarely multiple codexes get 2nd version inside same edition. It starts and then new edition kicks in.

 Vaktathi wrote:
To be fair, 3rd had its own set of updates, they did multiple Chapter Approved books with rules updates & FAQ and where they updated transport vehicles and rebooted the assault phase rules partway through using CA, and had a fair number of issues that really could have used some updates

Yup. We used to joke that by the end the only relevant parts of the 3rd ed rulebook remaining were the to hit and to wound tables.

A new edition is probably due this summer. I wouldn't worry though. Past Codexes will be compatible with the new edition, and the new books coming out are likely designed to work around the new edition more than this one.

Personally, I hope there never is a 9th edition. I want to see an Imperial Agents dex, a Drukari 2.0 with restored characters and model support, I want a playable plastic kroot army. I want more non-imperial Blackstone explorers with 40k and Kill Team rules. I want every faction to have a Kill Team box with a unique sculpt, which gets released as a stand alone later.

None of this will happen if we go a hard 9th.

Now the idea of a soft 9th that blends seamlessly, that I can handle; there are some dexes that really need a 2.0, and I could especially get behind this if each dex update includes getting everything updated to plastic with a few new units to boot.

If you think about it, that's pretty much where we're already at.

A hard rules overhaul doesn't make sense. The cross platform integration between games has never been what it is now. Messing with any of those systems too much too fast takes the whole network down.

And with two different ways to cost an army, three ways to play, two separate campaigns which you can choose to integrate or not, and in whichever combinations you choose, not to mention three additional scales of gameplay that use the same models... Well quite franly, you are not using the tools you've been given.

As for the IGOUGO debate, I'll say again what I always say: with Blackstone, Kill Team and Apocalypse all being Altenate Activation already, you can already get what you want, without suggesting wrecking 40k for those of us who like it BECAUSE it offers breaks in the action rather than in spite of it.

This is what I mean about using the tools you've been given.

With the right group of players, you can probably talk at least a few people into playing 40k in AA format.

For casual, narrative campaign play between friends, this game has never been better. We've certainly never had so many options.

I get that other versions of the game or other designs might be better for balanced, steamlined, accessible tournament style play. But this isn't my prefered style of play, so a system optimized for it is far less appealing than what we've already got.

Especially when you already have the tools to do what you want anyway.

My bet is 9th will introduce new ways to play specifically plug and play modular rules including alt activations.

There is no creditable source of rumors for 9th as of right now.

I like to think that with Chapter Approved 2019 giving official points value to every single unit in the game (Forge World included) and the beginning of moving things to "Legends" I think it looks like they are setting up everything for 9th edition. Does that mean it will drop in 2020, not necessarily, but it does begin the "clean up" process of 8th to at least prep it for 9th. If they do come out with a new edition, I don't think it will change anything significant, from my understanding 7th -> 8th was a massive shift, and if they are going for a modular approach then the codices should be able to "slot in" for 9th with possible re-printing; with all the current erratas, FAQs and point changes from CH 2019 merged into them.

Personally I'd welcome a new edition. I expect it not to be a re-write of the core rules, more of an update and clean-up.

Actually, I'd prefer GW did this every year. If it were up to me, each year's Chapter Approved would include the the latest version of all the rules in the BRB cleaned up and corrected to bring them in line with the Erratas and FAQs. This way you could bring the latest CA to games instead of the CA and BRB. And the free Core Rules pdf should be re-issued twice each year with the Big FAQs and incorporate the latest updates.

Aash wrote:
Personally I'd welcome a new edition. I expect it not to be a re-write of the core rules, more of an update and clean-up.

Actually, I'd prefer GW did this every year. If it were up to me, each year's Chapter Approved would include the the latest version of all the rules in the BRB cleaned up and corrected to bring them in line with the Erratas and FAQs. This way you could bring the latest CA to games instead of the CA and BRB. And the free Core Rules pdf should be re-issued twice each year with the Big FAQs and incorporate the latest updates.

Who brings the BRB to games? The only part of it that hasn't been completely superseded is the bit on Detachments. The little rules primer they hand out in every medium or larger box and Chapter Approved replace everything else.

I wouldn't mind a cleanup like AOS 2.0 did. But 40k has already spiralled out of control whereas AOS hasn't (yet) and given it's more popular I wouldn't doubt they Dona different approach. They've done it in the past already and given how the 40k team seems to design compared to the AOS team there's no telling what a 9th edition, if it happens, will entail.

Am I misremembering an early announcement for 8th edition that included a little bit about this being the last "raw" edition overhaul and that they will just update the game via Chapter Approved/Supplements like PA, etc?

 Draco765 wrote:
Am I misremembering an early announcement for 8th edition that included a little bit about this being the last "raw" edition overhaul and that they will just update the game via Chapter Approved/Supplements like PA, etc?

They also announced that they weren't going to nickel and dime players with loads of different supplements to play the game. They'll call it just a "rules update" and have some minor rules changes. We would call that a new edition (similar to 5th to 6th, 6th to 7th), but Games Workshop will disagree.