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Just speculating what the overall goal and end result will be for 9th edition for some of the factions.
We all know that Primaris are slowly replacing old marines to the point of not really needing them, but that horse is already pretty flat, so will leave it alone.

What about the other factions, especially chaos? What direction is GW going to take with them? They have shown they don't want an army of cultists, but for them to encourage players to use marines, they have to do something to improve them. Legionary marines, fluff wise, should be on par with Primaris, Countless experience, time in the warp etc, has to mean something so perhaps now is the time to combine chosen and marines into one unit, 2W, 2A etc. You can still keep a 1W marine statline for Renegades if people want to play that way. In this new edition, how do you see GW handling the next incarnation of the chaos codex? (I did recall the TTT guys saying "just wait" in regards to chaos).

Sisters are so new that i don't see too much expansion with them (I'm just starting to build some now, they are fantastic models).

Guard desperately need a new regiment in plastic, is that going to happen this edition? If so, which one....cats?

As for the Xenos races, Eldar have to be next in line for a major overhaul, their models are old and their current infantry (barring wraith constructs) are going to be terrible in 9th. What direction do you feel GW will take this edition....fully turn on the Ynnari faction, or just reboot existing Craftworld lines. They have to see how poorly the new Banshees have been received (price and rules-wise), so I can see them giving them a pretty good rules boost to improve sales, not to mention maybe add one or two more new Aspect kits. Can we expect that in this edition, or will it be another long wait for the Aeldari?

Overall, where do you see the game standing toward the twilight of this edition?

(I know this is a pretty broad topic, but didn't want to be too specific to a certain faction).

"It's GW, they'll fix the Craftworld Eldar by releasing another ten Primaris Lieutenants."

Eldar desperately need a refresh of the basic Guardians, all the Aspect Warriors, and all the Phoenix Lords, but they need functional rules a lot more than they need new models. Most of the Xenos ranges have that problem, they're chained to legacy stat-lines that don't work well under the new rules. ...which is a problem for Firstborn Marines and CSM too if we're being fair.

And to rub nice handful of salt in, there's the vicious cycle of out-of-date rules => poor sales => low priority for new models and rules => more out-of-date rules.

In 18 months we will move to 10th which will be more like the Apocalypse specialist game without the Detachment rules. This will be caused by a stale meta that settles like a fog over the competitive scene as people realise that bad balance is bad and GW will not fix things and instead of reacting to the clamour for the balance they will give in to some of the other demands parts of the community have been making, notably making 40k use alternating activations.

I think Daemons are going to get more HQs.

Tau will get a new big battlesuit and the XV88 kit will be updated to go on 50 mm bases.

The FW Craftworld Knight is going to become part of the codex. No more new aspects this edition because of poor Banshee sales and an overall short edition.

Drukhari will get a dual kit for a new pair of vehicles and a new Archon sculpt. Sslyth will get a new kit and can be taken in larger numbers (1-3 per Archon).

SM gets kits for Primaris Captain and Primaris Lieutenant on Outrider bike and the anticipated hover tanks. A unit much like the Eradicators will come out near the end of 9th along with a 9.5 codex.

GSC get a flyer and one other vehicle.

Guard get two characters and a new Scions vehicle, no new basic infantry.

GW will release a separate codex for World Eaters, they will get fewer new kits but will get to keep more of the basic CSM units, but not Disco Lords, Venomcrawlers or Forgefiends.

Necrons will get two more Crypteks and an alternate shooty Lord with different weapons.

thats a very specific list.. lol

CSM should stay old-marine statlines. They just need better rules.

The main reason Primaris are good are the rules on top of them, not the basic dude/Intercessor stats. This was obvious at the beginning of 8th where they had half the guns-per-wound that oldmarines did but more wounds per point. They were not setting the world on fire at that point. It's the bargain points costs and non-stat rules piled on top that increase their offensive output are why they are where they are.

As far as everyone else....It's really mostly the same thing - Their rules need to catch up and have a better sense of internal balance. Banshees are great models but the rules make them completely unexciting.
That's they way it went with most new Xenos releases this edition: Orks fell pretty flat, GSC was new hotness for all of like a month. New Shadowsun that all Septs can use? Very exciting...until her master of war ability doesn't change so it doesn't matter. And she's the only model Tau get in the whole edition? Come on, how is anyone supposed to maintain any enthusiasm for their army? The worst is that every Xenos release lately comes paired with something for Marines that steals the spotlight.

Eldar might get a revamp. I could see some kind of campaign happening where they have to ally with the Imperium to kill off their old nemesis, the Necrons. It would really be nice to see an entire Eldar overhaul, their dated sculpts are definitely something that has been holding me back from plaything the army for the last ~15 years.

Then since the Eldar are involved I could see them releasing Emperor's Children finally to combat the Eldar on that front.

Then they'll release models that are specifically tied to Ynarri, we already know Lilith Hesperax is one of them to be released soon. Apart from Lilith, I don't see DE getting anything else this edition. I hope I'm wrong though.

Personally, I don't think GW has any intention of brining standard Chaos Marines up to Primaris level stats. I think thats probably a pipe dream.

Guard definitely need an entire range overhaul, but I don't think we'll get that this edition.

We will definitely see 2 or 3 more Primaris releases though.

Orks might see new Boyz, there was an Ork preview recently of a hand holding a choppa.

Nids, Eldar and Necrons might see a new Superheavy if they try to update Apocalypse, but that's like 2 years down the road.

Well from the preview video:
SOB - Palatine
Ork - Boys
Aeldari - Lillith
DG - at least 2(dont know dg names enuff)
Admech - Skitarii prime?

so at least them.

now what I hope:
Ynarri - maybe specific units
Craftworld - aspects & PL
DE - plastic beasts & additional HQ
Harli - sylandri veilwalker

Orks - any model old enuff to drink (21yo)

Tau - being squatted

Chaos - dark mech, possessed, traitor guard

WE & EC - codex and associated cult models

I'm leaving out Necrons & loyal marines for obvious reasons

Guard - umm do I really even need to say anything????

If I could wishlist for orks;

Big mek with KFF model
A kommandos upgrade sprue
A multi part warboss kit that isn't Grukk

A plastic Deffkopta kit. Just box up the AoBR ones for all I care

It is absolutely criminal that AoBR koptas exist and have existed, and yet they put the atrocity that is the pewter one on the website.

Sisters got a lot of stuff, and a lot of good stuff but that doesn't mean I can't wishlist.

I'd like a light vehicle of some variety, akin to a landspeeder, I'd like a bike unit(preferably with more of a ducati styling than the SMs chopper types), I'd like a flyer.

These are just to fill gaps in the army list though.

The biggest thing I want is a hilariously over the top centerpiece model. Something like the floating church tank they had in one of the PA artworks.

I'd also like to see them bring in an HQ ABOVE the canoness. My vote is for Saint Arabella to make a miraculous return by some warp shenanigans teleporting her 4-5k years into the future.

I think there will be another try to get Ynnari working as a faction, and I expect the lions share (if not all) Aeldari releases will be made with the Ynnari in mind. I think there may well also be a major release of several totally new Ynnari units, to encourage Aeldari players to move over.

What I would actually like is just more Drukhari models, restored options, and good rules, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm almost certain one of either emperors children or world eaters plus their £100 primarch will be released. Aos currently has the four specific god factions it's high time 40k caught up.

Change what's good and bad so that previously unsold stuff sells, then make those bad again making other unit sells. Circles around. Eventually even chaos cultists come back to top dog.

Gw doesn't　have ultimate end goal as that would mean players not needing to replace armies all the time. Constant change　is both journey and destination. Gw isn't interested in balance but changing imbalanance. Every change　is just to change what sells.

CSM VotLW go to 2 wounds.
Eldar aspects go to 2 wounds (except Hawks) and get new models.
Necron immortals, praetorian & licheguard go to 2 wounds. Entire infantry model line gets redone.
More suits for Tau (and +1 wound at least)
GSC get ignored.
Nids get a throw-away Carnifex sized model not worth its price.
Dark Eldar lose more models.
Harlequins get more imperial units (the old Land Raider model, maybe?)
Guard remains constant.

Everything else will be primaris refresh of existing marine units.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
If I could wishlist for orks;

Big mek with KFF model
A kommandos upgrade sprue
A multi part warboss kit that isn't Grukk

A plastic Deffkopta kit. Just box up the AoBR ones for all I care

It is absolutely criminal that AoBR koptas exist and have existed, and yet they put the atrocity that is the pewter one on the website.

Almost all of the characters are still in finecast as well, as are tankbustas. A new weird boy would be nice.

I thought 9th was about the friends we make on the way

 Elfric wrote:
I thought 9th was about the friends we make on the way

Friendships ends the moment money is involved. And w40k costs a lot of money.

Karol wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
I thought 9th was about the friends we make on the way

Friendships ends the moment money is involved. And w40k costs a lot of money.

I thought that happened when WAAC's and CAAC's tried to coexist

Don't mind Karol, his community is , questionable at best.

I think Nids will get an overhaul mid edition, with a limited edition battle box and some big beasties. At the same time Blood Angels will get their faction specific units (Dante, Sang Guard, DC etc.) primarisified and the battle box will be them vs Nids.

I don’t think Eldar will get anything major, maybe a new guardian kit or another new aspect reworking.

Dark Eldar and Harlies get next to nothing, Lilith and maybe a named Harly or troupe master kit. I think GW see them as finished product lines (aside from the few remaining finecast kits for DE that may well just get squatted.)

Ditto Guard, it’s all plastic already aside from a couple of characters. I don’t think it’s a priority yet.

Same for Tau, Admech, GSC.

The design studio don’t seem interested in grey knights, but who knows maybe when Chaos get a big update they will too.

One of World Eaters or Slaanesh will get their update, but not both.

 Elfric wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Elfric wrote:
I thought 9th was about the friends we make on the way

Friendships ends the moment money is involved. And w40k costs a lot of money.

I thought that happened when WAAC's and CAAC's tried to coexist

Curse those imaginary Venn diagrams

My take is 9th will muddle along much like 8th, few highs and lows, people will carry on flinging cash at GW and thats all theyve ever wanted

Icegoat wrote:
I'm almost certain one of either emperors children or world eaters plus their £100 primarch will be released. Aos currently has the four specific god factions it's high time 40k caught up.

We already have two Traitor Primarch, and only one Loyalist. If we only get one, I’d bet we get a Loyalist. Either The Lion or Russ. Probably the Lion because he and Guilliman don’t get along more than G and Russ which would build up some tension and allow Russ to come along as a Triumvurate Tie Breaker. We might get two. I hope we get two. In a summer campaign. The Lion vs Fulgrim (of the Seperate book Legions) is probably the most historical, but that’s not necessarily a thing GW goes for, else they would have saved Magnus for Russ and G Money would have gotten Angron or Lorgar. It looks like they’re trying to cross reference feuds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General Kroll wrote:
I think Nids will get an overhaul mid edition, with a limited edition battle box and some big beasties. At the same time Blood Angels will get their faction specific units (Dante, Sang Guard, DC etc.) primarisified and the battle box will be them vs Nids.

I don’t think Eldar will get anything major, maybe a new guardian kit or another new aspect reworking.

Dark Eldar and Harlies get next to nothing, Lilith and maybe a named Harly or troupe master kit. I think GW see them as finished product lines (aside from the few remaining finecast kits for DE that may well just get squatted.)

Ditto Guard, it’s all plastic already aside from a couple of characters. I don’t think it’s a priority yet.

Same for Tau, Admech, GSC.

The design studio don’t seem interested in grey knights, but who knows maybe when Chaos get a big update they will too.

One of World Eaters or Slaanesh will get their update, but not both.

BA and DA are in limbo. The special units like DC, RW and DW are what I think is holding them up. My bet is the DC go away when whatever reincarnation/return of Sanguinius occurs. The rest of them are in Primaris limbo until they decide what they’re doing with the Wings -either squat them or the rest of them return with the Lion, plus jump pack assault phase units and Primaris Terminators not being a thing etc.

Neither BA or DA are in limbo or getting held up. They're getting supplement books probably within a year, likely less.

Voss wrote:
Neither BA or DA are in limbo or getting held up. They're getting supplement books probably within a year, likely less.

We only sort of have Primaris Bikes. The only close combat jump Primaris so far as I know is Shrike. If the Assault Intercessors had jump packs, I’d agree BA/DA were getting a big update. As it stands my prediction is - without a Primarch Return to overrule GMan on doctrine and gear - a minor push with mostly a rework into 9th edition. A character or two cross the Rubicon maybe Samael on a bike/jet bike, but most likely Aztael, Asmodai, and/or Ezekiel. Mephistopheles already did, so Corbulo, a Tycho replacement or a Librarian Redemptor Dread.

Overall, where do you see the game standing toward the twilight of this edition?

It's probably still WAY too early but I can offer this vague speculation (what is Dakka for after all? lol):

IF, once October comes and the Marine dex is released, they calm the F down on the all marines all the time release schedule, and IF they start giving non marine factions similar levels of care and attention, I can see this edition going to good places. They are likely also going to need to either adopt a new mission set, or FAQ the current ones (because I don't care what the play testers say - these missions have problems), but those are easy fixes. Most could be fixed in a one or two sentence FAQ.

The issue with the Marine dex is that it suffers from what I like to call "The Ward Factor". See, for me, Matt Ward wrote some really fun rules. The problem, IMO, was never that his rules were turned up to 11. The problem is that everyone else's rules were turned DOWN to 5 or 6. The game is way more fun for everyone when we're all "playing at 11". Currently, the Marines need a fix. What I'd like to see happen is that they fix a few things that are truly borked, but then keep them relatively where they are. Then, when the other books come out, I'd like to see THOSE books ALSO turned up to 11 so we're all playing at the same level of awesome. To do that though, they'll need to have a consistent design philosophy from book to book, and will also need to have proper coordination on the rules team. There's a first time for everything, but I remain skeptical as it really would be the first time they did any of those things.

I also think that if they can get the APP to the point where it's either at a better price point, OR worth the $5 a month, that could be helpful too. For example, if they were willing to put the points directly in at no extra price, and updated them more regularly, that would be great. We could get more timely updates, and it eliminates the need to pay for CA.

My FEAR is that what we'll get is another broke-as-feth Marine book in early October, followed bay at least another week or two of Marine releases followed by the release of an extremely average to below average Necron book right at the end of October. There will be no subsequent cron releases because the only new models will be the ones in Indomitus plus Szandrek, and we will continue on this cycle of average non-marine books until they release CWE. At which point, CWE will take back the throne for broken books. This will cause them to FAQ the Marines to be newly broken to compete with CWE and we'll be stuck with the same cycle we always end up on. Time will tell I suppose.

Also hoping we've seen the last of PA style books. A codex update should be a codex update, and a campaign book should be a campagin. The PA books often performed both roles poorly and largely added to the extreme amount of Book-Bloat.

If you get a turned to 11 codex at the start of an edition, there is a chance that mid or even end edition you army is still going to be workable. If you get a balanced codex at the start of the edition, mid edition you are not going to have a lot of fun playing your faction. So in the end it is better to get an OP codex then a bad or balanced one.

Crusade will become more popular than tournament meta because even losses feel like a win when characters level up.

This will change what people want in terms of supplements and models. The next round of Campaign books will be Crusade only with certain selections of new units being made official for tournament play every year via CA.

Finally, y'all tourney types can stop whining about bloat, because it'll all go to Crusade players, who are the ones that will want it. Pieces will make the transition, but only after they've been balanced and approved for the competitive game.

Models will be more customizable to account for how the model will grow over time. Many models will come with bits representing specific Crusade relics or Battle Honours that are meant to be added to the model as it grows, rather than models being assembled to a "finished state" before game play begins.

I believe Ynnari will become a Harlequin sized faction this edition and that their bespoke units will consist of Eldar Exodites and Corsairs, which will get WD dexes to be fielded as such (which will be refined as campaign book releases toward the end of the edition).

Imperial Agents will get a dex.

All armies that done have an Aircraft, LOW or Supreme Commander or a fortification will get one. There may be some exceptions to this, but they will be few.

Tycho wrote:

Overall, where do you see the game standing toward the twilight of this edition?

My FEAR is that what we'll get is another broke-as-feth Marine book in early October, followed bay at least another week or two of Marine releases followed by the release of an extremely average to below average Necron book right at the end of October. There will be no subsequent cron releases because the only new models will be the ones in Indomitus plus Szandrek, and we will continue on this cycle of average non-marine books until they release CWE. At which point, CWE will take back the throne for broken books.

But we already know multiple necron kits are coming? Lokhurst, monolith, void dragon, silent king???
Necrons are getting two big big kits marines are getting.some guns and a tank.
Also no way elder are getting a good release after blood of the phoenix I am expecting the elder as a species to be squatted this edition. Same as tau.

Breton wrote:

Voss wrote:
Neither BA or DA are in limbo or getting held up. They're getting supplement books probably within a year, likely less.

We only sort of have Primaris Bikes. The only close combat jump Primaris so far as I know is Shrike. If the Assault Intercessors had jump packs, I’d agree BA/DA were getting a big update. As it stands my prediction is - without a Primarch Return to overrule GMan on doctrine and gear - a minor push with mostly a rework into 9th edition. A character or two cross the Rubicon maybe Samael on a bike/jet bike, but most likely Aztael, Asmodai, and/or Ezekiel. Mephistopheles already did, so Corbulo, a Tycho replacement or a Librarian Redemptor Dread.

Ah. I misunderstood. I don't see not getting a primarch and a major rework as being 'in limbo' or being 'held up.' They're getting a huge amount of new stuff with the new SM Codex in October, and probably a few extra toys (at least a SC and a lieutenant or two) when their supplements roll around.

I don't think they need more than that. And nothing precludes yet more primaris during the general SM update. There are still a few things we haven't seen in detail (or possibly at all) yet, like the Primaris Speeder.

But we already know multiple necron kits are coming? Lokhurst, monolith, void dragon, silent king???
Necrons are getting two big big kits marines are getting.some guns and a tank.

Oh! Duh. I completely forgot about those. Well that's a good sign I guess?

Also no way elder are getting a good release after blood of the phoenix I am expecting the elder as a species to be squatted this edition. Same as tau.

I understand your angst here, but man, that's a pretty bleak outlook. I don't think the game works anymore if that happens. I'm hoping that, once the new marine stuff is done with, the xenos armies that were largely ignored this edition get some much deserved TLC.

Well, eldar might get hit with a major Ynnari rework, with craftworlds and dark eldar getting sidelined or marginalized. Neither have been treated well by 9th so far, and of all the lines, a major focus shift may be whats going to happen to dig them out of the decade-old hole they're in.