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2020/08/13 16:40:27
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Hey everyone, TJ from Art of War here to give you the new scoop on Death Guard in their new Psychic Awakening book War of the Spider. Now to be clear, other factions got rules in this book, but Death Guard definitely got the most to love. Now, these guys have been around the block with a codex that came out very early in 8th edition. I have used some version of them through most of this edition; however, the book needed a serious upgrade. Being an early book, they got very little in the department of stratagems and relics, so this new book is a welcome upgrade. This book allows the Death Guard to finally be competitive while remaining a mono faction build. The book is just that strong. It touches every unit in the codex and makes it better. While there are no codex updates in this book, the additions of the Plague companies boost the army by improving the units and allowing you to take different builds based on how you like to play. Let’s get started at the top…. Relics.
Relics
This time around, there have been numerous upgrades gifted to the Death Guard, some definitely better than others but all useful. The codex itself gave us only one or two useful relics, but this new book truly delivers. The book gives you six new legion relics, but all the companies come with a unique relic as well, bringing the total to 13. We will get into all that company goodness later.
Ague Stone – Lord of Contagion upgrade that gives nearby enemy units within 3 inches -1 strength. Not sold on this being super useful considering toughness is something that Death Guard does in spades.
Allwyther – Balesword upgrade that gives the bearer +1 strength and damage on the sword as well. Not terrible, but there are better choices that we can spend that relic slot on.
Daemon’s Toll – Noxious Blightbringer model upgrade that gives the user a 5+ invulnerable save as long as the unit stays within 7 inches. Excellent upgrade that gives ground forces much-needed protection. Likely a good choice for people who want to take lots of Marines.
Epidemicyst Blade – Hellforged Sword upgrade that gives the bearer +1 strength and the plague weapon upgrade on the blade. It also gives you additional hits on unmodified 6+. Now, if there was only some stratagem that gave us access to more attacks…
Putrid Periapt – Psyker model knows one additional power and allows the psyker to heal after it casts a power once per round. It would have been much better if it was know an additional power and cast another one as well, but not a bad choice as it stands.
Worm Spitter – A bolt pistol upgrade that increases the range by 3 inches, the strength to 5, and the ap to -2. Oh yeah, and if you hit a unit with it, it causes them to be corroded, which gives all weapons Death Guard units the plague weapon ability. I mean, I guess it’s ok if you have nothing else to take… and by that I mean MY DARK GODS WHAT A RELIC. The possibilities with this relic are endless when you think that most of the small arms fire that you have, bolt weapons and the like, don’t have the plague weapon rule. The other thing to note here is that Cultists and Poxwalkers can also use this super insane weapon upgrade. The only problem you should be having is what your second relic should be after this one.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop
The Stratagems
Father Nurgle has gifted the Death Guard this day with over 20 new Stratagems! Some of these new abilities significantly increase the effectiveness of the army. The book has army-wide stratagems, but the Plague companies have two each and bring the total well above 30. The thing to note here is that most of the CP costs are very reasonable, with some small exceptions. I honestly feel that if this was all the book had to offer, I would be a happy man; however, there is so much more. Let’s dive right in, shall we?
Plaguechosen – Allows one of your HQ’s to become a warlord and receive a bonus trait. What a great time to be a Death Guard character considering the seven new warlord traits we just got. Those will be covered in this article later on, but suffice to say, you will want to spend a CP for this. Another thing to note is there is no cap on the number of times this can be done… before the FAQ, that is.
Harbinger of Nurgle – Allows for one of your Lord of Contagion to get the extra aura of giving friendly units a reroll on hits on 1s. Now at face value, this is not that useful until you consider two things. The first thing is that for an extra 38 points, you can take him instead of a Lord, which gives you a beefy 2+ armor, one additional wound, and a nice Feel No Pain. Not too bad now for one CP. The second thing to consider is that Typhus is a Lord of Contagion. So for 155 points, you can get a psyker that buffs nearby Poxwalkers and casts two powers. He is also super strong in melee, so it is a pretty solid choice to buff the army all around for 1 CP.
Virulent Rounds – Turns your Plague Marine bolt weapons into plague weapons and also gives them the extra ap on a roll of a 6+. On first look, this seems terrific, but the relic pistol does the same thing as long as you can hit with it. However, this allows you to target two units with plague weapon rounds on bolt weapons, so it definitely has its uses. This can be combined with a host of different stratagems that bump up the damage output. You’ll want to make a point to include Arch Contaminator to increase the CP return on this stratagem.
Soul Harvest – This Stratagem amps up the number of attacks by three for the axe or the balesword for a Demon Prince. However, these attacks can only target infantry with these attacks. What a splendid upgrade for the balesword, especially when you factor in the nice, sweet relic that we just got access to. So now, with the charge, you’re looking at eight attacks that are st 8 -2 and 3 damage, which also provides additional hits on 6+. A very strong choice.
Foulgush – What a name for such a fantastic ability. This gives your Foul Blightspawn the ability to roll an additional dice for both the strength and the number of shots allowing you to discard the ones you don’t want to use. This amplifies the damage output by reliably getting better shots and strength. At already a super-strong choice for anti tanks, this makes it even more of a solid choice. If only there were a stratagem to make the range of the weapon increase as well…
Relentless Volleys – Allows a unit with Boltguns to gain an additional rapid fire number on their shots, which doubles the number of shots the unit gets. If the unit is more than six models, it costs 2 CP. This is such an excellent stratagem for Death Guard because combi bolters/ bolters are something we have in abundance. Usually, we don’t fire enough shots to make an impact, but double that and now we are talking about some major damage. Couple with the ability to make the bolters plague weapons and full rerolls after that, and you are talking about some major havoc.
Putrid Fecundity – So this stratagem is one that is a significant buff for plague marines. It is effectively bringing their toughness way up. This ability gives your marines +1 to their Feel No Pain. It costs a bit more depending on the unit’s size, but you don’t care if it means your unit is taking fewer casualties. This becomes especially powerful with rerolling 1s and 2s on your FNP..but more about that later. It’s is a must take if you are planning on playing ground forces.
Trench Fighters – Another powerful stratagem for the ground forces of the Death Guard. This new stratagem gives any plague marine with a plague knife an additional attack. Now you might be thinking I don’t want my marines to punch, I want to be able to shoot. Well, what if I told you that you get a bolter and… a plague knife? Now when you couple this ability with maybe a spell to give you mortal wounds on melee, as well as Veterans of the Long War and a warlord trait to reroll your wound rolls, you have a powerful combo indeed.
Creeping Blight – This ability is triggered in the fight phase to add +1 to the damage roll of your weapons and makes the roll of unmodified 6+ -4 AP, which is fantastic. This is yet another way to give a unit +1 to wound, which you can never really get enough of. This is going to be super useful when having multiple combats going on effectively, being able to split your buffs evenly. The other nice thing about this is it isn’t limited by the infantry keyword, though Veterans of the Long War is.
Warp Toll – This is yet another way that the book is upgrading the units in the codex without having to rework all the unit entries. This upgrade allows your Noxious Blightbringer to deal some significant morale havoc by not only forcing your opponent to add 1 to the test but double the number of models that flee. This is going to play a significant role in 9th, and I am very excited to see if this unit plays a part.
Hypertoxic Tinctures – Another upgrade stratagem that allows your Plague Surgeon to allow friendly units within six inches to be able to reroll 1s and 2s on your plague weapons within six inches of him. This is awesome, especially if you don’t have the CP or character slots to give another warlord trait of Arch-Contaminator.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop
Noxious Rupture – This stratagem allows a nearby unit to give a unit -1 to be hit until next turn. Definitely a powerful ability when you think about this coupled with Cloud of Flies and how you can still make use of the unit in front of you after it is dead.
Eruption of Filth – Use this ability after a Terminator model from your army dies, and units within seven inches can suffer a mortal wound on 4+. Not crazy effective unless you have a unit with one wound left on it that you don’t want to let get away.
Mutant Strain – This ability allows Poxwalkers to get a bit of a buff, enabling them to inflict mortal wounds on the enemy unit on an unmodified wound roll of a 6+. However, you can also suffer mortal wounds if you are prone to rolling 1s. This stratagem isn’t bad if you are trying to run large units of Poxwalkers.
Miasmal Affiliations – This is a fight phase stratagem that decreases the units they are fighting by one toughness as long as Mortarion’s aura is not affecting them as well. This is a pretty expensive ability at 2 CP, but I can definitely see the use in it if you are fighting something more durable, and you want to be able to wound it easier.
Overwhelming Generosity – This is the strat that is going to get most of the attention. This stratagem allows one unit to increase the range of its plague weapons by 6 inches. Now right off the bat, you can think of some excellent units that this would affect. Increased ranges on you the flamers on the Plague Burst Crawlers are awesome, but there is so much more you can do with this. But the real units that benefit from this are the Foul Blightspawn and the marines/termies that you make their bolters plague weapons. Increasing range on already deadly weapons like the flamer from the Foul Blightspawn that can now fire at 15 inches and remain in the protection of his bodyguards is terrifying. I am excited to see how I can make use of this ability in the coming months.
Fire Fever – This is a Helbrute stratagem that allows your model to get rerolls on the unit it is shooting at as long as it does not split shots. Not a huge fan of where the Helbrute is currently in 8th, but maybe this will change in 9th.
Parasitic Fumes – This is a stratagem that improves your units’ armor penetration when you have a Blight-hauler within 7 inches of that enemy unit. I’m not really feeling this one honestly. Your Blight-haulers will want to be defensive since they have no melee weapons, so I’m not sure how this would work.
Life-Eater – This ability allows a Death Guard unit to score a successful wound if you roll an unmodified hit roll of 6+. Not terrible if you need to put the beating on the unit, but wounding is not something we usually have trouble with.
Accelerated Entropy – This is another upgrade stratagem this time for one of my favorite units, although I’m not sure you need this one. This upgrade is for a Plague Burst Crawler that gives your entropy cannons a much-needed damage boost. Makes your damage automatically 3 damage if you roll a 1, 2, or 3. It’s a nice upgrade, but as I said, the tank already has amazing offensive weapon options in the form of flamers, so I’m not sure you need this one.
Contaminated Monstrosity – This is the last of the upgrades, and it is an interesting one. This allows you to give one of your tanks the ability to receive a Feel No Pain bonus. Some big units need this. Possessed are the first units that come to mind but not the only one. Plenty of Forgeworld units can be taken for Death Guard but lack the defensive abilities that the Death Guard gets in their codex. I am interested to see what uses I can make out of this.
Credit to Games WokrshopCredit to Games Wokrshop
Plague Companies
If all of those upgrades, relics, and stratagems weren’t enough, we now have access to sub-factions. There are seven Plague Companies to choose from, and while these do not have passive abilities, each one gives you access to a new Warlord Trait, a unique relic, and two additional stratagems. These are great additions to detachments you were already taking, but something to note is that you’ll have to pay with a relic/warlord trait slot or CP if you want to take advantage. Some of these Plague Companies are very good making use of units you were already planning on using thanks to the new Stratagems and relics. Let’s jump in, shall we?
1st Company: The Harbingers
The Harbingers are Typhus’ crew, and if he’s in a Harbingers detachment, he gains the Harbingers keyword. Any Poxwalker units in the detachment also gain the Harbingers keyword. The Harbingers are all about Poxwalkers and buffing them. Their Warlord Trait Shamblerot allows the warlord to add one model to a friendly Harbingers Poxwalkers unit within 7″ every time he kills an enemy unit in melee. You still have to pay reinforcement points for each model you add that takes the unit above starting strength, making this not a very good warlord trait. The main problem with Poxwalkers is that you have to get them into melee and then have the points saved for new models. This company also comes with a relic that replaces your blight grenade with a powered-up one called Rotskull Bomb that does 2d3 that is strength 5 ap-2 and 2 damage that automatically hits. Not bad with it also being a plague weapon. Finally, this company has two stratagems with it.
From the Carrion Heaps -This allows you to deep strike up to two units of Poxwalkers at the beginning of the game, allowing you some flexibility that you didn’t have before. Spending 3 CP on making sure you have your troops not picked off early in the game might be useful, but I’m not sure it’s worth it.
Life beyond death – The second stratagem is one that we have seen before but with Terminators and tanks. When a unit with the Harbingers keyword dies, you can damage the unit that killed it by dealing d3 mortals. Not the worst trade for a CP if it means you’re going to kill a unit for it but not worth it for having to take the whole detachment. It also suffers from the unit having to be Poxwalkers.
The Harbingers are a solid choice if you like the Day of the Dead feel. Competitively, though, the company does not utilize the units that you want to take, so I would advise another choice.
2nd Company: The Inexorable
The 2nd company is all about mechanized assaults and rolling into battle in heavy tanks. Their Warlord Trait, Ferric Blight, improves the AP of Inexorable models when they attack a vehicle within 7″ of the warlord. The company’s relic, The Leechspore Casket, allows the warlord to heal an Inexorable Vehicle model within 18″ by one wound, to a maximum of 3 per turn per vehicle, when he kills an enemy model. Ferric Blight is a substantial ability that helps Death Guard deal with vehicles that have great saves and a ton of wounds. However, I feel that the units that Death Guard has that task themselves with killing vehicles do it rather well, so maybe not the best choice for a company, but perhaps the stratagems will change my mind.
Unholy Essence -This ability gives up to three vehicles in your army the Inexorable Advance ability for a Shooting phase. This ability is all but useless as we move into 9th edition, as vehicles no longer suffer the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons. With the twilight of 8th edition upon us, I struggle to think why they put this in, considering they designed these books for the new edition.
Ferric Miasma – This Stratagem gives an enemy infantry unit -2 to its charge rolls for when it charges one of your Inexorable units. This is pretty useful for protecting your screening units or key vehicles like a hellforged Dreadnought from getting charged, particularly from units that can boost their post-deep strike charge with something like the Banner of Blood stratagem.
The Inexorable have a couple of interesting abilities. Still, if you’re looking for a vehicle-heavy strategy, there are better ways to do it, and we are going to cover that later.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop
3rd Company: Mortarion’s Anvil
This company is more robust than some of the others. The Warlord Trait, Gloaming Bloat, makes its bearer harder to wound, with wound rolls of 1-3 always failing. This is a perfect warlord trait on a deamon who loves to be in the thick of it. The relic, Tollkeeper, is an upgrade for a Tallyman model and gives friendly models within 7″ an extra hit each time they roll an unmodified 6 to hit with a melee weapon. This is a great ability that allows you to get more utility with your melee units to spread the damage further. Considering the Tallyman also allows for rerolls in combat, it is a potent relic indeed. Their stratagems are pretty strong as well.
Futility Made Flesh -This abilitybuffs a Terminator unit in the opponent’s Shooting phase, reducing the damage of incoming attacks by one for a phase. However, it is very expensive, costing 2 CP if the Terminator unit has five or fewer models and 3 CP otherwise. This is an excellent boost for the unit survivability when going against heavy, multi-wound firepower. It also combines well with Disgustingly Resilient to make a unit of Blightlords insanely brutal to deal with. This is a powerful ability that, even if only used once, will certainly keep that unit alive.
Relaptic Assault – This stratagem is used in the opponent’s Charge phase and lets one unit of infantry perform a Heroic Intervention. This is a super tactical ability that will catch people off guard and allow some heavy hitters, often Terminators, to get into combat. A good point to also realize is that if you are charged, you get to pick the unit that goes first, which could make this even better.
There’s a lot of power in Mortarion’s Anvil, especially if you’re running Terminators. Both Stratagems are very good, as are the relics and warlord traits, making this a solid choice.
4th Company: The Wretched
The Wretched is all about psychic powers and summoning. Their warlord trait, The Eater Plague, regains the warlord a wound each time it kills a model in melee, up to three per phase. This is another powerful warlord trait for a Demon Prince, especially when coupled with some armor upgrades. The company’s relic, The Daemon’s Favour, upgrades a Malignant Plaguecaster, replacing its Pestilential Fallout ability with the Torrent of Putrefaction. This upgrades the ability to do one mortal wound if you manifested the power with a roll of less than 7, and D3 mortal wounds if your roll was 7+. Unfortunately, Plaguecasters’ Pestilential Fallout ability only has a 7″ range to begin with. However, this doesn’t actually help the casting of powers, and I wish they would have done that instead.
Sevenfold Blessings -This stratagem allows you to upgrade a single Wretched Psyker before the battle for 1 CP, letting them reroll one of the dice whenever they take a psychic test. This is an upgrade I can get behind. Almost no reroll in an army can feel bad when you’re trying to cast a power that goes off on a five like Blades of Putrefaction.
The Rotted Veil -This an ability used at the end of the movement phase to perform a Daemonic Ritual. It can be used even if the character has moved or arrived as reinforcements this turn, but instead of the standard roll, you roll a D6 and add 7 to the result. This improves your average outcome significantly but unsure as to what you would even summon at a max PL of 13 because a Great Unclean One is PL 17. So this stratagem isn’t going to help summon anything of note since three dice are more than enough for a herald.
Overall, there’s some ok stuff here. Summoning in 40k isn’t in the best place right now due to restrictions, but that might change in 9th. The Sevenfold Blessings upgrade is also useful on a Demon Prince, which is great because that is a unit we were already thinking about fielding.
5th Company: The Poxmongers
The 5th company is all about Daemon Engines, and this naturally my favorite because I love Plague Burst Crawlers, and you better believe they got better. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. This company’s warlord trait is Sanguous Flux, and it improves the AP of Poxmongers models within 7″ by one when they hit infantry units in melee. It’s a substantial improvement on the melee units you are already using (looking at you, Blightlords and Demon Prince). The real treasure in this detachment is the relic. This company relic is the Ironclot Furnace, which gives Poxmonger Daemon Engine units within 7″ a 4+ invulnerable save. That’s a significant boost in survivability for many units, one of them being you guessed it… Plagueburst Crawlers. This unit was already nigh unkillable, but with this, they are here to stay. It’s a point to note that Defilers can benefit from this as well, which will help these units shrug off half of their incoming attacks. You can also increase the survivability one step further by giving your Defiler a Feel No Pain by using the Contaminated Monstrosity stratagem. Moving and shooting with no penalty in 9th edition boosts the utility of all daemon engines significantly. Another thing to note is that in 9th these tanks will be able to rush up the board with no fear of being wrapped in combat because now they can shoot. The utility of that relic is pretty astounding because, again, these are units that you were already planning on taking. But wait, there’s more!
Bilious Bloodrush – This stratagem allows a Poxmongers Daemon Engine shoot in the Shooting phase even if it Fell Back that turn. This is a considerable benefit in 8th, though it might not be so massive in the new edition, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
The Flux Abated – This is a stratagem that was designed, in my opinion, to keep my favorite vehicle alive in the game. It allows you to heal a Poxmongers Daemon Engine D3 lost wounds if it destroys an enemy model. This is huge because they are already extremely difficult to remove, and now it can even heal. This will make the PlagueBurst Crawler a very annoying unit to pin down, to say the least. You can also chain tons of other abilities to make the tanks perform even better like two damage flamers on 6+ and another healing ability, and lastly, even the power to advance and still shoot.
The Poxmongers feel like the clear winners in my eyes. I was already planning on taking tanks and tanks that don’t die are even better. The big thing here as well is that you don’t have any units that are required to make this work like troops. If you were just to take a spearhead, you would be all set.
Credit to Games WorkshopCredit to Games Workshop
6th Company: The Ferrymen
This company is all about one of the other powerful units in the faction: Blightlord Terminators. Their Warlord Trait, The Droning, gives enemies within 12″ +2 to their morale tests. This currently isn’t that powerful, but again, given that it was written for 9th edition in mind, this could become very useful. The relic for this company is The Ferryman’s Scythe, which replaces a plaguereaper with one that’s a S+4, AP-3, 3 damage Plague Weapon that does extra mortal wounds each time you roll a 6 to wound with it. The only real downside is that it’s only an option for a Lord of Contagion, which isn’t really taken at all right now.
Vermid Whispers – This is an ability used in the Shooting phase to give a unit of Blightlord Terminators +1 to their hit rolls for a phase. This is a huge boost, especially when combined with the Relentless Volleys Stratagem to pound on the damage. Blightlords were already dependable damage dealers, and increases to that are much appreciated.
On Droning Wings– This is a stratagem that is used at the start of the Movement phase to boost the aura abilities of one FERRYMEN unit by 7″ for the rest of the turn. This has some interesting abilities, but the main problem is the CP cost of 2. The thing I am most interested in using this for is in 9th edition, where if you charge, you don’t go first unless you have a Foul Blightspawn’s Revolting Stench. This ability is super strong because it negates the bonus that your opponent would have for getting charged, which is very strong, bringing that aura to 14 inches, most likely protecting most of your units.
There are some good things in this company, especially if you’re running Blightlords. It’s worth as much consideration as our next company. I am intrigued by the things this company offers, considering I am a big fan of Terminators, but I feel that you don’t necessarily need these bonuses to field them.
7th Company: Mortarion’s Chosen Sons
This company has the chosen elites from the Death Guard ranks. They make all the plagues, and they do the dirty work. Their warlord trait, Crawling Pustulance, gives models -1 to hit the warlord with melee weapons, and when enemy units without FLY try to fall back from this warlord, you roll a D6, and on a 2+ they take D3 mortal wounds. This is a pretty great trait when used on a demon prince because no one wants to be in combat with one. The Company’s Relic, Vomitryx, upgrades a demon prince flamer to an Assault 7, S7, AP-3, 2 damage Plague weapon that automatically hits. Not a bad upgrade for a prince, but there are better relic slots.
Alembichal Narthecium – This is a stratagem upgrade that can be used before the battle. It gives your Plague Surgeon a special Narthecium that lets friendly Mortarion’s Chosen Sons Infantry within 3″ the ability to reroll Disgustingly Resilient rolls of a 1 or 2. It’s pretty great if you are going all infantry or want the elite Terminators you spent all the points on to survive the battle. Something else to note is you can use other boosts like the Hypertoxic Tinctures stratagem to make your troops even better.
Plague Brewers – This is a stratagem used in the Shooting phase to upgrade the plague belchers, plaguespurt gauntlets, and plague spewers of a single unit to damage 2 until the end of the phase. This is not terrible, but it doesn’t really feel like something you would use. Currently, the role of the Deathshrouds is bodyguards, but that might change in 9th.
Overall Thoughts
So, what does this mean for the Death Guard overall? I think that the overall power of the army has drastically gone up. Maybe even to the point where one might consider trying them as a mono faction competitively, which very few armies can boast the ability to do right now. This book’s power is such a welcome change for other chaos books that have come out in the last few months and even the Fabius Bile portion of this book. Every unit in the codex was looked at and altered effectively, which is something else I don’t believe I have seen in another book in a long time.
I can already see some potent combos from this book, which I am very eager to test. The first things that come to mind are the Blightlords, PlagueBurst Crawlers, and the Foul Blightspawn using the new upgrades and Stratagems to make a deadly core in my new lists. I hope that you will be able to come with me when tournament play resumes and take the plunge with me. I feel like Death Guard will make a big splash in the new edition with chaos, and I hope that I will be able to test all the crazy ideas I have in my head with this faction as the tip of the spear.
yes IF codex will mantain what war of spider did 9th ed should be a good ed for death guard.
Dg have some intersting builds right now, termy blob, Pg carried in drill and Dg supported by nurglins, all competitive, we are testing something, what DG really lack is quality firepower, we dont have oblys, soon i will test a dg batt. and a IW patrol with 3x oblys. Blightlords at 3W, if cost is decent, could be really big.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/13 18:23:58
2020/08/13 22:00:22
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
2W on plagues is a big change, and if BL get to 3 is bigger, most builds will be totally revamped, of course anything will depend by cost but seem will be no more than 20%, so a plague should cost more or less 22pts, accettable i guess.
About extra damage, guess you intend multi wound weapons... we still have strat like cloud of flies, then if you play more hard targets as defilers and/or PCB, want see if your opponent aim all the antitank to PM-
@gigasnail yw
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/13 22:22:34
2020/08/13 22:31:48
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
for me mortarion's chosen sons is close to poxmongers as overall utility, now with Pm at 2w is better than before, now there will be a serious competition between BL blob and plague marines blob, PM that can get a 4+++ FNP 2w and reroll 1-2 look very though to shitf. Only drawback is, if you dont want use a drill, you need warptime.
2020/08/14 16:56:52
Subject: Re:Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Eldarsif wrote: I am currently using Mortarion's Chosen Sons and I do like the reroll aura on the Plague Surgeon, especially if you are moving your forces in a castle formation with him in the center.
what make poxmongers bit better is the fact that normally your plagues/blightlords/characters shouldn't be targettable, but your PBC/MBH/FBD are, so give them 4++ is normally better, because until they survive your opponent cant target anything you dont want he target.
2020/08/15 07:53:49
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
the basic idea around that list work is simple...an hard core or demon engines (usually 3xPBC) with a 4++ and supported by healing (poxmonger stratagem and often a poxbringer with fleshy abundance) they simply dont die, behind them you have PM or BL, lot of lists play 15/20 nurglins for obj holding, and pbc provide some firepower and durable character protection. You dont need to spread all over the table your demons engines, you do when/if needed (anyway a PBC with 5++/5+++ and healed d3 wounds/turn is durable enough).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/15 08:02:49
2020/08/15 13:25:29
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
spawns in a heavy primaris meta are excellent, cheap, fast enough and with a bit of support (prescience/warptime) they are a threath, played 5 and always repaid me. If you have spare point consider to play 2x5.
that is the list i played against an ultra (Scorched heart mission), won but i feel marines are a force to reckon 9th as they was in 8th, he did some mistakes so i pulled off the victory, anyway i sense the list is ok to compete.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/15 13:37:26
2020/08/16 12:05:20
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
seem pretty fun and strong, much resilient wounds and fast enough. Anyway i dont think DG will make the cut at major tournaments, marines are still a step above us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/16 12:07:23
2020/08/17 16:54:57
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Xirax wrote: How do you guys run competitively blightlord terminators. I've found their movement to be a real lack luster in 9th ed missions. I'll try warp time next time to negate this.
ppls need to shake away how we played in 8th, now BLT usually have a different use, control center of table covered by PBC and cloud of flies, they DONT need to be DS always, with a spawn they are nearly impossible to charge e deny large portion of table, since start of battle. I never DS my BLT, in a normal table made for 9th ed, BLT can be easily hide start of battle then moved where needed, and yes waptime is useful, but i used most on PBC/chaos spawn than BLT. If i was you i will take out the 2nd prince for a plaguecaster and get the 2nd rhino, i prefer PBC over FBD but is on anyway, the list can work
Should take into consideration a bell guy with 5++ relic, and contaminated monstrosity on rhinos.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/17 17:58:44
2020/08/18 12:15:12
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
yes they changed table size and things change bit, but most important is how the terrain is build, at least 1/4 have to be covered or is the same turkey shoot we seen in 8th edition.
2020/08/18 20:35:50
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
In my limited plytest actually pbc are a must include, then there is competition between haulers and drones, if I should choose now I would go for drones with fleshmower
2020/08/19 16:14:13
Subject: Re:Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
lately i played 2 contaminated rhinos+demon toll i would try it first time i have chance in a tournament, they eat lot of punishment before get down.
Look who suddenly likes Plague Marines! Glad you came around. I have really liked the Demon's Toll in my games of 9th, and I think between that and the Chosen Sons Plague Surgeon abilities, they're going to be really strong in 9th (provided they are Warptimed, or have Rhinos), but I have a question-
I haven't caught any of the official GW news channels lately - was it actually confirmed that "all marines" included chaos (for getting 2w)? Because they've said "All Marines" in the past with things and it did not include Chaos. I'm also a little worried that the corresponding points hike for getting that second wound could render PMs too expensive again (ditto my Rubric marines) - have we heard anything "official" on that?
I m testing, is not like or not, still blightlords have an edge, they need less support, just Pm play better the mission.
2020/08/22 23:13:05
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
dont forget most lists that run Bl runs warptime too, and usually PBC that move 9"+3" average, BL deny the whole central part of table to opponent, no one want engage in melee with them and until PBC are alive, hardly they can be shooted. Pm just play the mission, BL deny it to opponent.
2020/08/23 14:17:41
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
if you want handle the marines lists that are coming out you need plasma. Remember the stratagem transhuman physiology, wound on 4+ ap0 and 1 damage lead you nowhere, ap-3 and d2 is completely different thing, you keep wound on 4's but they save at 6+ and any failed save mean 1 dead primaris.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/24 15:49:51
2020/08/24 16:56:27
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
that is one kind of list why im testing much more heavy fire, 9th edition will be the veichles edition and lack good and reliable antitank is a problem, i started to list 3x dual twin linked lascannon contemptors, 12 ab 2+ lascannons shoots plus entropy cannons (if really needed, but i stills suggest to play spitters so -1 to hit are a no issues) can deal with transports, no matter if they have 4++ invul. Another suggestion is play 9-10 men plague marines units with biologus, the grenade stratagem is too strong, itself it can delete 1 unit each turn no matter the save they have. If you play 3x9 plague and screen them properly with PBC you should deliver some damage, or play just 1 ten men squad with biologus loaded into dreadclaw or termite, unload use the +6 range to plague weapons throw 10d6 grenade and cancel anything. Play 3x PCB with spitters , it's the best tank in the game, if you have ironclot furnace they are nearly unkillable.
PS: but with deathhex....how is possible you cant reset 1 unit each turn?
if you do some suggested changes you should perform better, in my opinion, anwyay harleys can be a thought army to face. The defiler for me have no place in your list better 3 spitters PBC, as said above nurglings are a nice way to deal with harleys they cant ignore them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/24 22:27:56
2020/08/26 21:01:51
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
hello mortarion's followers, did someone had recent experience facing machanized lists? Seems like 9th will be the veichles/heavy infantry edition, i was pondering what we can really use to counter those lists, marines use veichles, same for Ig and mechanicus. If i play nurglings im fine with table control but i cant really touch all those veichles and entropy pbc aren't enough, i was thinking about 3 double laser contemptors.
2020/08/27 08:45:47
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Dedwoods42 wrote: There's a rumour floating around that has been repeated by a few different sources that is quite interesting: that DR as a core part of our army is being switched from the 5+++ to a blanket -1 to wound in our Codex.
Obviously this is only an unsubstantiated rumour at this point - but theoretically how would we feel about it?
I'm unsure currently how it'd impact us as so many things (Surgeons, RR, Contaminated Monstrosity etcetera) would need to be re-written. It'd likely be strong against some armies, but the big bads like Marines currently have myriad ways to stack bonuses to wounding and would largely not worry about it.
that will kill anything good they did with war of the spider...if we lost fnp is a problem, -1 to wound is not the same at all, just a bonus to wound and high ap weapons delete things like PM then. I dont see the 9th edition a great edition anyway, you will see when the 1st few codex will be released, it has same identical issues we seen end of 8th ed.
Remember 1 thing...FNP works on mortal wounds, -1 to wound NO, is a big difference too.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/01 17:50:25
2020/09/01 22:28:29
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
blackmage wrote:if i can suggest you...swap the beast with chaos spawns with FNP, the list could work ok
I thought about that, but the synergy between the obligatory Poxwalker for the detachment and the Beasts is actually kind of enticing. The beasts get +1S and 1 extra damage on 6s to wound whilst within 6" of the Poxbringer. If Virulent Blessing goes off then they get +1 to wound and double damage on 7+, resulting in 3 damage on 5s to wound and 5 damage on 6s to wound. Also, while the Beasts costs slightly more points per wound, they don't cost a CP for the DR bump and have a built in 5++, and have a stratagem to deal MW in addition on 6s to wound (5s w/ Virulent Blessing). Basically at this point I think the Beasts are just as good or better as Spawn with Contaminated Monstrosity as long as you're already taking the Daemons detachment which i definitely am.
Honestly when I set out to make the list I very much wanted to include a unit of Contaminated Monstrosity Spawn in addition to the Beasts but points just didn't allow. I suppose I could cut 3 Blightlords and shave a few points somewhere else to include a unit of 5 Spawn, but I really want 2 plague flails in the big termie unit and want to leverage as much as I can get out of them with stratagems.
Eldenfirefly wrote:
astro_nomicon wrote: Was hoping I could get all you competitive Death Guard/Chaos/Daemons fans opinion on this list. Inspiration came from an off beat Death Guard/Daemons list that I'm tweaking to work with what I can pull off with my collection. I'm hoping it can work by virtue of putting a ton of DR wounds on mid board objectives from the gate with enough punch to remove a few key threats relatively quickly. I know its not going to be bleeding edge competitive compared to Daemon Engine spam, but I'd like your opinion on the concept and any tweaks you'd suggest beyond "buy 3 PBCs". I know Ahriman is a bit shoe horned into the list, but I really wanted a worthwhile warp timer so I can deploy the unit of Blightlords first turn if I want to.
Are you going to start the Blightlords on the table and march them up? It looks like a very interesting list. But your main source of threats seem to be the Blightlords and the plague marines in the Drill. The rest are basically just to soak up wounds and choke up the midboard objectives. I don't know if you might have an issue with a heavy vehicle list. I suppose you could go for the objectives and just outlast them.
Given the amount of stuff you have clogging up the midfield, I think marching the blightlords up the field while under cloud of flies strategem is a fair consideration. You also have warp time to help them move further too. Give it a try. Considering a lot of people are loading up on anti tank guns these days, this might be an anti-meta kind of list.
So yes, the reason I squeeeeezed Ahriman into this list was to be able to start the Blightlords on the table more often than not. I thought about putting them and the Blight Grenade bomb both in reserve but it just seems like too much off of the table Turn 1 in too many games. Hence, Ahriman for a more reliable Warptime, Prescience, and cheeky Death Hex here and there.
And also yes, the Blightlords would most likely receive Cloud of Flies on turn 1, maybe further depending on matchup, while they are hustled up to mid field. I'm not totally a fan of the fact that by far the best damage output in this list is condensed into the Drill and the Terms as you said, but maybe there's enough sneaky/opportunistic damage dealing units between the Beasts, the DP, Ahriman, and the Blightspawn? I'm not sure yet, but hopefully.
Thanks for checking it out
they are not.. you can warptime the spawn they hit harder they dont need stratagems/psychic power at 7+ to deliver extra damage, beast have basic ap0 and 1 damage only, if you relay then on fragile combos (a psy power that gets off at 7+) then is up to you, i m not going to discuss that. As i said above the list should perform fine
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/02 13:08:20
2020/09/03 01:14:31
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Eldenfirefly wrote: I am kind of more worried that now when deathguard marines do get 2W, they will dial up the points cost so much it would be a net nerf in the end. Everyone is screaming that plague marines with 2W are going to be OP. And we know GW tends to overshoot on both sides.
of course, you are right, anything will depend by how much they will cost, anyway if, as it seems, the point increase will be about 20% (21-22pts) we can still play them. What make me more worried is the rumor about FNP, seems they want change it with a -1 to wound, in that case DG will take a big nerf, -1 to wound is nothing comparable with a 5+++ FNP.
2020/09/03 12:19:40
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
no....
1st- it doesn't stop mortal wound
2nd- there are many ways to deny it, many armies have access to +1 to wound or weapons that wound at fixed value regardless modifiers
-1 to wound mean our PM will have just an armor save and if they fail boom they die...and a 22 pts model like that become unplayable.
-1 to wound instead FNP have 0 sense.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/03 12:38:01
Glad you came around. I have really liked the Demon's Toll in my games of 9th, and I think between that and the Chosen Sons Plague Surgeon abilities, they're going to be really strong in 9th (provided they are Warptimed, or have Rhinos), but I have a question-
