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2021/01/25 16:46:15
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
The list still needs some fine tuning, but if you play Mortarian (which Is likely required for competitive play) there are only so many ways to build DG.
No it is not...good players can play around morty and you play with 500 less points... Hypes about that piece was spread through internet " Morty the immortal autowin" but lot of high level players dont agree.I played couple of list with and without him and without you have lot of chaces anyway... again...the best thing to do is play...watch less internet
For examplke that list is almost identical copy and pasted Nanavati list
Tyel wrote: Yeah, I think while I keep trying to squint and claim otherwise you are right on Spread the Sickness. Deploy scramblers is easier than having to sequentially get to all objectives, even before factoring in mortal wounds. I can sort of see why they'd not want you to just put say 20 poxwalkers on one objective and claim 3 points each turn - even at the loss of D3 wounds or whatever - but its not like Oaths of the Moment is especially difficult to score.
At least at the moment I can't really see what you'd do differently to your list.
Just to clarify as I'm confused by Spread the Sickness. Is it just 3VP per contaminated objective at the end of the battle? Not per turn.
Yes and cant be performed by poxwalkers, they cant perform actions.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/25 16:57:49
2021/01/25 17:11:48
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
chaos spawn, are good but anywyay i would mix them with FBD, they dont fly and anyway less durable than drones 1x5 is fine and work pretty good
Yes Mortarion have that issue, lost death to false emperor now it might struggle kill enough models and dont get tarpit, is a thing that ppls realize only when they play, sanguinary guards, blobs of Pm, terminators or large blobs of fearless infantry Morty cant handle them properly.
Is main reason why lot of top players arent so sure it will make really a cut into meta, very durable, can kill single models easily but for the rest it struggle. Last but not least armies like sisters and their multimeltas or Gk that can one shoot Morty.
2021/01/26 01:08:29
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
broxus wrote: Well the meltas are a problem against everything in an elite army. I feel GW went a little crazy with the MM and me SRU really changed their points. On smaller tables they are almost impossible to get away from.
Yes but their meltas improved by prayers (not sure if im using right word) deal tons of damage.
2021/01/26 11:50:49
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Tyel wrote: The Internet certainly seems fond of the LoC - but I'd like to understand why. Is it synergy with say flash outbreak? I guess its a source of 3 damage attacks that you can't easily get elsewhere. It just seems to me the LoV at least has the double heavy flamer to (hopefully) do some work without being at the mercy of long charge rolls.
I think Daemon Princes are in this odd place because wings make them expensive but the idea of not taking them feels very alien. I'd be interested to see if people experiment without the wings as its another source of 3 damage - and 6 attacks hitting on 2s should be more consistent than 5 attacks hitting on 3s (even if plague weapon rerolls to wound can mitigate this.) Throw in a psychic power and it seems a reasonable choice.
simple his ability work only on CORE with PLAGUE weapons so basically work only on deathshrouds, no real reasons to add him, beside his wepon+patogen and mortarion choosed sons company.
Tyel wrote: The Internet certainly seems fond of the LoC - but I'd like to understand why. Is it synergy with say flash outbreak? I guess its a source of 3 damage attacks that you can't easily get elsewhere. It just seems to me the LoV at least has the double heavy flamer to (hopefully) do some work without being at the mercy of long charge rolls.
Well, the manreaper allows you to massacre stuff like harlequins, orks or daemons, while the plague reaper has been upgraded into a better thunderhammer that wounds pretty much every vehicles in the game on 3s and gravis or bikes ons 2s with re-rolls, with no less than 5 attacks. Either way you have a powerful counter-charge unit that can seriously mess up anything that wants to fight with whatever unit he is buffing.
I think Daemon Princes are in this odd place because wings make them expensive but the idea of not taking them feels very alien. I'd be interested to see if people experiment without the wings as its another source of 3 damage - and 6 attacks hitting on 2s should be more consistent than 5 attacks hitting on 3s (even if plague weapon rerolls to wound can mitigate this.) Throw in a psychic power and it seems a reasonable choice.
Honestly, having a 4++ in combat is more valuable than than the psychic power since blades is gone. If you want more attacks, you can just drop the explosive outbreak pathogen on the LoC.
agree in my tests i always found LOC better
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5) Noxious Blightbringer. Movement is always an issue with DG infantry. Gaining +1 movement can add up during a game. Regrettably his movement aura only gives +1 regardless if you normal move or run. His other auras to impact enemy morale and combat attrition tests really won’t come up as often as you would like with all the armies that ignore modifiers. If you wanted to build around this it could be very good against some opponents. (Utility)
remember anyway his relic...2+ and unit at 6" cant fall back. Is not so useless.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/30 19:39:26
2021/01/31 12:03:29
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
FOUL BLIGHTSPAWN
He has a nice gun and is probably the hardest to evaluate. Both his built in ability and his relic aura are very strong. I'm gonna need to practice more with him to maximise his abilities but I'm finding the 3" fight last ability very difficult to actually pull off. The same ability on a SM judiciar is on a bit of a melee beast who wants to be in combat and has the 4++ durability to survive.
The blightspawn isn't easy to navigate into within 3" of a melee target without getting tagged himself and dying pretty rapidly due to zero melee output and no invulnerable save. I'd be interested in hearing people's advice on using this guy affectively because I feel like he should be awesome but I'm struggling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/31 11:18:57
use the relic revolting stench vats
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/31 12:03:47
2021/02/01 01:57:50
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
there is really nothing that Pm do better than Bl and for troops you have far cheaper and effective choice...poxwalkers. Maybe just play a cheap squad to get some backfield obj, protected by cloud if needed.
About blightspwan....pure gunlines WONT work in 9th, opponent must come to you if want try to win, he is a strong option, the relic+viscous death for me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/01 02:00:18
2021/02/01 18:59:35
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
had a game on TTS against a blood angel scorched heart mission
Some considerations: still not sold on Pm, good and decent durable unit but nothing a skilled opponent cant delete when decide to do, maybe better have a single unit of 10 BL (better for straragems and tallyman ability), perhaps better switch the 9pm for 20 more poxes and 2 more Ds termies.
About PBC, they are anyway a good choice but they aren't core so thye dont have access to re rolls and area abilities, still a unit to consider anyway. Im planning to play couple of defilers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/01 19:19:22
2021/02/01 22:12:37
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Managed to find a photo of it on FB doesn't it have Nurgles gift though which is the -1T?????????
it has not
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Salt donkey wrote: Here are deathguards competitive book units full stop. This being made where I played mini tournament against the best players in my area.
-Most HQ’s aside from regular lords and sorcerers depending on how you kit them out and what you do.
-both types of terminators
-blightspawn and tallyman. Maybe surgeons (Not sure here)
Poxwalkers
-mower drones
-chaos spawn (I think?)
Everythqing else could be ok at local levels or as a niche one of 1 (maybe) but won’t see play in top level lists.
Let’s go over problems of other units being talked about. First all go over units most everyone knows are bad.
Hellbrutes- they are expensive and have no inv. -1D doesn’t help you against all the AP in this meta.
Blighthaulers- does anyone think 140 points is justified here? GW probably didn’t like a $25 model being spammed, and wanted to make sure that didn’t happen.
Drones without mower- too little damage output.
Noxious blightbringer- his points cost mainly just gets +1 M. Not terrible but overpriced. His relic is also probably only worth the CP you spend on it, since your opponent will know he has it at the beginning of the game.
Biologus putrefier- no op mortal wounds combos killed him.
Cultists- Did they really need to take away these guys obsec?
-CSM stuff- just fragile in our army. A rhino dies faster than like 1 blightlord.
Now here’s me talking about units people like in this thread
Plague marines- I get why people want these to be good enough but they’re just not. The problem with blightlord comparison is 2 fold. The first is you can get much more effectiveness using single target buffs on a 10 man blightlord squad than a 10 man plague marine unit, Tallyman +1 to hit and enteral hatred do a lot more here than they do for plague marines. The second is that plague marine efficiency decreases quicker than blightlords in game. For example, in most cases the same number of shooting and melee attacks will wipe out a plague marine unit vs killling only around 4-5 blightlords if we are being generous to the plague marines). That’s a problem because now the plague marines aren’t dishing out more damage point for point than the blightlords, since more PM died and we have lost special weapons on them while the blightlords ones are still safe. That leaves PM as being only good as obsec holders, but walkers do a better job than them in this area.
-Plagurburst crawlers, the flamer version of them is just too much weaker than their 8th counterparts to worth it. Getting +3 range on their flamer and 3+ BS just doesn’t outshine getting a worse version of DR (for tanks at least) and a having S6 non buffable damage on the flamers. The entropy cannon version looked good for a moment, but no native re-rolls on any of their shots makes 3+ hitting only slightly better than 4+re-rolling one’s. 175 is just much for something that only gets 2 of these good shots and a bad motor (d6 shots is still bad (I too have used Disgusting impact and a CP re-roll for it to miss everything). Let’s not even talk about the slugger.
-
100% agree but this, like you said, become clear when you start play really competitive, in any other soft/medium game enviroment you cant figure that out.This is why i always said ad will always say...play against competent players using competitve lists, if you really want have a taste of how a codex is, all the rest if just fun, and for fun anything work fine.
I think lot want some unit work just cause they spent time and money on them and refuse to admit they are bad, that is understandable at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/02 00:24:43
2021/02/02 07:51:08
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
if i can give you a suggestion...take off 3 deathshrouds and add some extra blightlords, they work fine in big unit, enhanced by tallyman,keep the 2x3 Ds and add a full squad of BL. You might also try use a patrol for 2x3 deathshrouds+your malignant, with mortarion choosen sons company, so you have 2D flamers, 2 wounds make a big difference in actual meta.
2021/02/03 21:31:08
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
2. Plague surgeon with Living plague and Fugaris helm. I didn't use this but the helm sounds great on a Surgeon in the front line with either kind of terminators to strip auras from enemy melee units. But I'm not sure if it's actually necessary if I just use Gloaming Bloat to prevent rerolls. Are both of them together overkill?
I played a list with both, gloaming bloat and living plague, having 2 drones and 5 spawn i can flash outbreak what i need more.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/04 12:18:30
2021/02/04 12:58:34
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
ninjafiredragon wrote: So I ran a game against an ultramarine player earlier this week with a list very similar to what Blackmage posted above, basically with a daemon prince instead.
The game hurt me deeply.
He just ignored mortarion for the first two turns and focused everything on killing my troops. All my poxies and my possesed squad were just straight up dead before I got anywhere close to combat. Redemptor dreadnoughts just seem better than any tool we have access to.
So wasnt morty able to just go ham then since he was ignored? Yea, charged a full 10 man hellblaster squad, which promptly got transhumaned, and Morty killed a full 2 marines. That was depressing. Especially considering he just fell back with them and shot morty, then charged with Gulliman. Morty actually survived with 1 wound, and killed girlyman on the swing back, but guess who revived with 6 wounds left.
By the end of the game, he had still at least half his army left, and my only models were 3 chaos spawn hiding on an objective. The score was almost close, if he didnt max out 2 of his secondaries through killing my crap.
Overall feels that death guard are pretty survivable, but their damage output (at least against marines) is still pretty pitiful. But I guess why compare anything to marines in 8th lol.
im happy to hear that ppls start to figure that Mortarion is NOT so overpowered and not a must include, anyway he needs to be played a bit different than in 8th, now he is most a force multiplier, used in/with support of other units, with cloud of flies and decent terrain shouldn't be so easy remove 10 posessed 2 drones and 3-5 spawns, and still have mortarion hitting on weak enemy sides (10 primaris in any case, are out of reach for him now), or deny the center of table. Anyway im quite sure that DG will NOT make the cut in 9th, playable, mid competitive but nothing that can shake the meta, imho.
This is why I believe that 3 PBCs are better than 1 Morty
Agree, same for me 2-3 pbc are needed, the list im actually play dont have Mortarion but 2 pbc+16 termies instead (10 blight and 2x3 ds)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/02/10 00:08:37
2021/02/11 00:20:50
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Hmm, interesting. mortarion may actually be advantageous in a DG vs DG match, because DG is usually not Shooty enough to threaten Mortarion
.
hardly morty does much against a DG, he cant remove the bunch of troops (poxes and/or Pm) or termies, he get into never ending melee. Still ppls believe that mortarion can be neutered only by firepower....10 Bl with spawn and biologus are unchargeable my mortarion, just an example.
Marine lists will change to fit new DG, unsure if PBC are really mandatory, usually i run anyway 2 of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/11 00:21:55
2021/02/11 01:00:59
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
ArcaneHorror wrote: What's the best way to get possessed up the field without a transport? There is the use of cover, but I can't count on that.
Soup with a Gnarlmaw and WB or TS Warptimer, you’ll usually get a deep charge T1
lost -1T is a thing to ponder, soup stuff is not always a big deal.
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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Not having access to FW Datasheets at the moment, what makes Contemptors, tempting? Do they gain any of the Plague Company benefits, despite having FW's brand of not-quite update rules?
they get, as said above, the buffs, and they are quite "cheap" maybe ponder play 2 of them instead PBC, not being core is a big limit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/11 19:34:29
2021/02/12 16:49:37
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
tallyman work great with a big bunch of BL, no need to deepstrike them if you have some deathshrouds, a full 10 man marine squad with bolters+blighlauncher is ok with tallyman. BA is one of armies that actually suffer DG, they have to close up to you so they get hit by all your debuffing and if you have a vats blightspawn is super hard for them successfully charge something.
Impression about PBC? im not so sure they are needed so much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/13 23:35:14
2021/02/16 00:51:09
Subject: Mortarion's sons Death Guard tactica 9th ed
Jidmah wrote: IMO the only support character deathshroud need is the foul blightspawn with relic, because if another melee deathstar gets the jump on them, you are losing a lot of points.
In most instances yes, but if you are facing the Dark Angels terminator blob you need the 12 extra mortal wounds. The foul blight spawn is also critical.
I just wanted to give the example of how 365pts of DG can own 600+ pts of Dark Angels with the right build.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grotrebel wrote: I don't think you want to run a squad of 6 because of blast.
5 is finde.
Also if they deepstrike it's hard to get Support characters there.
Deepstriking 3 x 3 or going for 3+5 will see a lot of lists and they are great on their own as well.
