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Hi All,

Now that we've had a bit of time with the new codex, I'm curious to hear how it's shaking out for those of you who have been able to get some games in (whether for "real" or via TTS, etc).

In terms of over-all competitiveness, I'm feeling like it's the kind of book that's going to have consistent placing towards the top of the middle tables, and will occasionally place higher in the hands of better players.

In terms of a more narrative approach, I think it's great. Lot's of options and tools for new list types!

Surprises:
- The amount of conditions that must be met for Command Protocols. It's a bit silly for what they actually give you. It would be different if it were like the Mechanicus psalms where you can roll or pick which one you want top of turn, but having to have to have all those conditions met AND having to pick the order pre-game just so I can get a extra 1" of movement turn 1? No thanks.

- The Hexmark Destroyer - I find him to be even more useless than we thought he would be. I've dropped him for more Scarab bases

- Scarabs are tiny, awesome murder machines. One of my favorite units!

- I find my nobles are living much longer than I thought they would and Szeras is a powerhouse. I don't leave home without him!

- They're not as killy as I thought they would be. Although - it would help if I wasn't consistently rolling the worst possible results for my Doom Stalkers ... 1 shot and 1 damage and then I miss anyway - I don't think they've killed ANYTHING yet but that's how the dice gods roll ...

Working as expected:

- Reanimation works great on Warriors and Immortals and pretty much doesn't work on anything else
- Warriors really are great this edition. Especially with the proper amount of cryptek support
- Canoptek Reanimator gets shot of the table turn 1 or 2, OR stays most of the game but doesn't do much
- Strong board control army


So what have you all run into so far?

I've only managed to get in a few games so far. We were looking to start a crusade campaign, but the UK's lockdown 2 and the current tier restrictions have stalled those plans. I've only got a taste so far off what the codex and army are capable of but I'm happy with most of it.

I too am impressed by warriors, really like the new guns, which seem ideally suited for the current edition. Gauss immortals also pack a punch. Tesla immortals are disappointing even with the new arcing strat. They just don't seem to have any real impact.

I love the return of varied cryptek builds and the proliferation of canoptek and destroyer units. Again I have similar feelings about the reanimator. We've been paying 25-50PL games and there's no space for it in the list so take this with a pinch of salt but I think it needs an urgent bump in resilience to make it worthwhile (probably to match the doomstalker - perhaps with less wounds due to its reduced stature).

The new reanimation rules are fine. Maybe there's a better system that doesn't disproportionately affect units with differing wound profiles, but it's ok and thematic. An improved reanimator would alleviate any concerns I had.

The protocols could have been a little beefier in places to justify the hoops you jump through. Along with the crusade rules they unfairly penalise destroyer led forces. I would like the opportunity to take a mad king for a crusade force, but he won't be able to make use of the special necron mechanics.

I'm looking forward to playing some larger games and trying out my aircraft combined with lychguard, monolith (even with the CP cost) and various c'tan in a crusade campaign.

EDIT: I hope that I'll also get to drop szeras' and anrakyr's buffs on some Novokh dynasty lychguard at some point. Those guys will be brutal!

So I was thinking about the reanimator, it needs to have character protection without being a character. What if it couldn't be targeted unless it was the nearest unit if it was within 3 or so of a core unit 6 models and up?

Encourages it to hang about with warriors then but is restrictive enough it doesn't get a free pass.

I hope that I'll also get to drop szeras' and anrakyr's buffs on some Novokh dynasty lychguard at some point. Those guys will be brutal!

I've been playing Nihilakh and only using Szeras and just that makes the Lychguard pretty nasty. Novokh plus Anrakyr would be pretty good I think!

So I was thinking about the reanimator, it needs to have character protection without being a character. What if it couldn't be targeted unless it was the nearest unit if it was within 3 or so of a core unit 6 models and up?

Encourages it to hang about with warriors then but is restrictive enough it doesn't get a free pass.

Maybe? But I still think it has trouble being worth it even with that. I think it's too easy to kill (which your solution at least partially solves), but it also is kind of weak in terms of its special ability. Particularly if you have someone like Szeras in the army as well. Maybe something like what you suggest plus a slight points drop?

I've been playing Szarekhan since the drop and had a lot of success.

I've had similar experiences with Doomstalkers. Okay, but you can't count on them.

What has surprised me a lot though have been Lokhust Heavy Destroyers with gauss. They're just mean and I really enjoy taking them now. Especially since you can get 2 for 1 Doomstalker (I have 3 Doomstalkers and 6 Lokhusts btw). They also don't really care about the -1 damage abilities on dreadnoughts or Death Guard in general. Also, since I run Szarekhan, the wound reroll really helps them and I can run them in smaller units to maximize that ability.

Overall, I've had a lot of success with the book and am very happy with them.

One thing I will say, is how much playing the new Necrons actually feels like Necrons. I really feel that they captured the mechanical feel and flavor when playing them.

One thing I was really impressed with, is how they captured multiple playstyles and while all of them may not be top tier competitive, they are all at least good. I can play Melee Crons, Shooty Crons, and of course Silvertide. You can even run mass Canoptek or Destroyer wing if you want.

While I do have a few complaints, mostly the Warlord Traits and how Command Protocols ended up working, I'm very happy with the dex overall.

The last two games I played I didn't even bother using the Command Protocols.

The only difference from the two games before that that I did use them is that I had more fun in the two games that I ignored them.

They almost seem like a total waste of time to me.

Yeah. I think the units themselves seem fine. The stratagems seem fine.
Points seem....reasonable, nothing really feels super under-priced.

The biggest downside is what happened with command protocols. They should have been map-wide, rather than some tiny bubble around characters.

Even with the whole 'if your last character dies they go away' thing. If they'd been map-wide, the biggest sticking point I have would be resolved.

One thing I was really impressed with, is how they captured multiple playstyles and while all of them may not be top tier competitive, they are all at least good. I can play Melee Crons, Shooty Crons, and of course Silvertide. You can even run mass Canoptek or Destroyer wing if you want.

This is honestly probably the best thing about the book IMO. You feel like you have multiple tools. Not all top-tier, but enough to be interesting, and even the weaker ones are not outright garbage. Hoping everyone else gets the same treatment.

I'm also surprised by how consistent the feedback seems to be. Every time I hear/see this book discussed, it's generally the same feedback. Which is pretty impressive for a 40k codex where there's typically at least one group swinging from the rage rafters. lol

The biggest downside is what happened with command protocols. They should have been map-wide, rather than some tiny bubble around characters.

Agreed.

I'm impressed at just how immovable warriors are with the right support. I just run squads of 14 but over 5 or 6 games have only had 1 or 2 squads be destroyed in that time.
If your RP rolls go cold, with technomancer support and ghost ark getting 2d3 or d3 and d6 warriors back a turn is still so strong.
Add in res orb for when they get really pummeled and they can get back to full strength in no time. I actually feel a little dirty for doing it.

Transcendent Ctan are a distraction carnifex. I'm yet to have mine actually do anything meaningful in combat. It's just waltzes up the board, psyching out the opponent and throwing out mortal wounds. It takes the focus off my real melee powerhouse: Ophydian Destroyers.
Oh boy, those ODs have done some serious work. They just make mince meat what whatever they go through. So many smaller attacks to deal with gribblies and enough heavy hitting attacks to seriously ruin the day of larger things. I love em.

Skorpekh Lord has been real blah for me. Gun is useless and not enough melee to do much. Even with strat support he's always gone down real quick for me to the point I stopped taking him.

Reanimator is nice to have when it doesn't get blasted off table first turn. I've only had 1 game when it wasn't taken out turn 1 and it was a nice bonus to have, made a difference for the warriors RP.

Skorpekh Lord has been real blah for me. Gun is useless and not enough melee to do much. Even with strat support he's always gone down real quick for me to the point I stopped taking him.

Same! Going to drop him and the additional detachment I had he and his Skorpekh buddies in to free up some points. Going to get more scarabs and am considering trying out the Lokust Heavy Destroyers.

Overall it's a very well-designed Codex and thankfully a lot of the underwhelming units are only that way because of points costs. Unfortunately there are still a few units which will never be fixed by points costs, but compared to the 8th Codex where it was 90% of the book I'd say it's a much better effort on GW's part this time round.

The most interesting thing I think about Necrons now is that they don't feel particularly strong and don't look obscene on paper, which is in complete contrast to the Marine Codex where the obscene abusive gak is on display full-view. With Necrons you look at Competitive lists or just play a few games the army seems very middle of the road all in all... but then you're at turn 4 and the army is on 70 VP outta nowhere. It's caught a lot of opponents by surprise where they got lulled into false senses of security by not having lots of their stuff dying, only to be getting crippled in VP's. The army is not high tier when it comes to offense, but it has strong defensive and mobility options and is decent mechanics-wise too. It's an interesting take on an army for 40k and hopefully it holds up as the edition progresses.

My two main disappointments are Core and Command Protocols.

Now, with Core it is not the issue of few units having it. The ones that do make total narrative sense. What irks me is that there are a handful of abilities and stratagems that are locked behind a Core requirement when mechanically and narratively I see 0 reason for this being the case. It feels like an instance of GW being over-cautious which in itself is not a massive issue, but it's clearly not a consistent design ethos across books as there's been less concern for that with the Marine books. The restrictions on Rites of Reanimation are absurd in a lot of cases as Technomancers would have no issues or qualms healing Destroyers or Wraiths, especially as Crypteks are the individuals who basically control the Canoptek constructs of a Tomb World. Yet we jump over to the Marine book and you have Apothecaries doing guaranteed 3 wound heals and rezzing 35-80 point models for free every single turn.

The second issue with Core is more that I was hoping there'd be a more granular aspect to it and of being able to customize choices depending on things like your Warlord. This is very much a general game concern, not limited to Necrons, but if the current books are any indication it looks like stuff won't be changing that much on this front. Essentially it would have been cool to see like, your Core keywords changing depending on your Warlord type. So a Destroyer Cult Warlord gains you Core on Destroyers, but you lose it on Warriors etc. Or not even going that far, you could change the properties of WLT's depending on the character type that takes them. Implacable Conqueror is pretty underwhelming because it only effects Core and so a lot of the best units in the Codex that could benefit from it, don't. But lets say a Skorpekh Lord takes it; that <Core> changes to <Destroyer Cult> instead. Similarly with Crypteks and <Canoptek>. My worries with this stuff are mainly directed towards how Craftworld Eldar are handled as let's assume that Wraith Host units don't get Core in their next Codex. But what if you play Iyanden, where narratively their armies are 90% Wraiths and the dead outnumber the living? An Iyanden army could have bonuses towards Wraiths in it's Craftworld traits, yet have no ways to interact with them or buff them further because Psychic abilities only effect Core and Core stuff is all Guardians and Aspect Warriors, neither of which an accurate Iyanden army will be fielding much of.

With Command Protocols I think it's safe to say that they are a major dud and no Necron player really enjoys them. When you look at similar doctrine-style abilities for other armies they are the most obtuse and complex, while simultaneously having many incredibly weak and underwhelming options. Just from a playability standpoint they don't work particularly well and it really feels like they're a first draft and something which requires more tweaking.

I don't mind the character bubble required to benefit from command protocols. I'm sure that characters have always been described as some sort of locus for necron armies (my old codices aren't to hand). What I'm less keen on is some of the effects and that it is locked behind noble characters. It would be less problematic if there were a way to circumvent the requirement with a specific warlord trait or item. Alternatively a separate bonus for destroyer or cryptek led armies would be equally cool (that is also something that could be added in a supplement as a bonus without an errata to the current rules).

All that being said for the sake of role play I'm going to lean into the protocols with a szerakhan crusade force and give my warlord the traits and items that buff them - he is The Herald of the Silent King after all. I guess I'll see how that plays out in the new year. I will at least be able to double down on one of the good effects like falling back or reanimation protocol buffs.

I would give the Reanimator Quantum Shielding to help its durability issues. Drop the re-aiming the beam Strat down to 1 CP, or leave the Strat 2 CP but make the beam a full Aura effecting everyone within the 6” when used.

Anybody being having success with the non-Technomancer Crypteks or with Lokust Lords?

Anybody being having success with the non-Technomancer Crypteks or with Lokust Lords?

Haven't tried the Lokust Lord yet. For Crypteks, I've run the Plasmancer, the Psychomancer and Szeras. Szeras has been by far the best but you asked about "non-technomancers".

I've run the Plasmancer in a few 2000pt games and some 1000pt games. He actually wasn't half bad in the smaller games, and actually does work against 1w infantry, but I think he's too expensive over-all. I'll take him occasionally just because I have a thing for the model, but he's not what I would consider competitive.

I've run the Psychomancer a few times, but I don't think I used him well. I feel like you have to (at least in part), actually build around him to really take advantage of his abilities. He was great in a Necron mirror match where he turned off obsec on a unit of Nikilak Lychguard, and in another where he removed a character's ability to perform actions (preventing my opponent from completing a data intercept), but I feel like you want to have units ready to swoop in when he does his thing and I haven't really done that yet. I think he has a lot of potential, but you have to use him better than I did. lol

Well, the Warriors come now in two flavors.
Game-wise I prefer the reapers. This the biggest change for me.

Wraiths are still usable in cc and its great that GW has not destroyed the CCB.
Doomscythes are still great for destroying key elements of the enemy.

The other units? Shrug.
The SK has great synergy if used right.

 vipoid wrote:
Anybody being having success with the non-Technomancer Crypteks or with Lokust Lords?

Chronomancers are unquestionably the best Cryptek type in the Codex.

 Bosskelot wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Anybody being having success with the non-Technomancer Crypteks or with Lokust Lords?

Chronomancers are unquestionably the best Cryptek type in the Codex.

Yeah, i find all my lists practically have a chronomancer supporting either a 20 man brick of warriors, or 9 base squad of scarabs.

The biggest surprise for me is actually the model releases thinking about it.

I'm amazed we still have the old destroyers and c'tan. I'm a little shocked they couldn't find the budget for 3 more kits.

Dudeface wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the model releases thinking about it.

I'm amazed we still have the old destroyers and c'tan. I'm a little shocked they couldn't find the budget for 3 more kits.

Likewise on the old C'tans. Really?? GW passing up the chance to super-size a model & charge around 2x-4x as much for it?

Dudeface wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the model releases thinking about it.

I'm amazed we still have the old destroyers and c'tan. I'm a little shocked they couldn't find the budget for 3 more kits.

They didn’t even need a new kit for Destroyers, just a third gun in the Heavy Destroyers kit.

Dudeface wrote:
The biggest surprise for me is actually the model releases thinking about it.

I'm amazed we still have the old destroyers and c'tan. I'm a little shocked they couldn't find the budget for 3 more kits.

It's not just budget. It's suitable release slot. They don't release all at once. Remember we saw completed eldar jetbikes over DECADE before they got released. They were close to getting released but GW went instead with new wraithguard themed release. They COULD have released bikes at the same time obviously. Models were done for! It was not matter of budget because it was all done for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My biggest surprise has been just how awesome the gauss reaper turned into in codex. Pre-codex it was okayish but more limited. Now those are basically my most reliable infantry killing units.

I'm amazed we still have the old destroyers and c'tan.

I was a little surprised by that as well. Imagine how epic the Nightbringer would be if they redid him now with their current level of tech and design capability.

I'm guessing that's still going to happen. Just a bit further down the road. It almost felt to me like they were afraid the Void Dragon wouldn't sell as well if he were competing with new models of the other two ...

There is also a point where they start to cannibalize their own sales too. Releasing too much, too soon means people won't buy it as they've already spent everything they can.

We're over 2 months from the Codex release and plenty of Necron and Marine stuff has yet to be released.

What you can criticize them for is a lack of planning or mixed priorities. I would have expected and hoped for re-done Lokhust Destroyers, rather than an entirely new type in Ophydians, especially since they're trying to purge the range of as much green rod 3rd edition models as possible. Ophydians have the additional problem of looking like a mix between Destroyers and Wraiths, with rules that reflect that and so end up not fulfilling either niche well at all. It's especially brutal because Ophydians could have also been a proper multi-part Skorpekh kit too.

Biggest surprise for me was they gave Necrons more heavy weapons. They needed them, but as said, surprised GW actually gave them it

They Did give us a redone Lohkust Destroyers kit, they just didn’t include all the weapon options in it. They did also recut the old Destroyer sprue to include four plastic rods on it and you don’t get the green ones anymore.

 Bosskelot wrote:
There is also a point where they start to cannibalize their own sales too. Releasing too much, too soon means people won't buy it as they've already spent everything they can.

We're over 2 months from the Codex release and plenty of Necron and Marine stuff has yet to be released.

What you can criticize them for is a lack of planning or mixed priorities. I would have expected and hoped for re-done Lokhust Destroyers, rather than an entirely new type in Ophydians, especially since they're trying to purge the range of as much green rod 3rd edition models as possible. Ophydians have the additional problem of looking like a mix between Destroyers and Wraiths, with rules that reflect that and so end up not fulfilling either niche well at all. It's especially brutal because Ophydians could have also been a proper multi-part Skorpekh kit too.

There's no green rods on sale anymore though.

And new unit sells more than redone kits.

Not necessarily Necron-specific, but I feel GW has gone a bit overboard with the ObSec stuff.

Necrons get access to army-wide ObSec / double-ObSec. Marines now have Rites of War to get ObSec BladeGuard and whatnot.

If they roll out that idea to all 9th ed. books, the entire rule becomes a bit pointless IMO. If they change "design-philosophy" again a couple of books down the road and become more stingy again with the idea, it could really leave a few armies hanging.

I'm in the process of converting my old destroyers using leftover gauss flayers from the new necron warrior kits and moving them onto black plastic bases. I actually think the kits stand up quite well with the added detail. I'll post some pics later if I remember

I'm surprised that they took the option of adding blank rods to the kit when they surely could have added some textured rods without a lot more effort. That wouldn't have helped those of us with existing kits but it would have been great for new players.