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Let's pour one out for the bird boys. At least they are still better then cultists.
Let us also say goodbye to the old Mutalith. You weren't that good but you were fun. Let's see if the new MW galore version is good enough to compensate !
I'm also a bit confused about the Tzaangor Enlightened: seems like their battlefield role will change a lot. But the 2+ auto hits on the bows looks good at least !
The rest looks really fun ! Seems like the incentive will be to fill out the HQ slots as much as possible to use our powers and cabal points as much as possible !
The new Hellbrutes also look nice ! I just wonder if our frontline won't be a bit more fragile now that Tzaangors took a hit.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Raising the Str by +1 is effectively a +1 to wound in many situations. Don't think its worth it to spend 2CP for another +1 to wound. How do we get +1 to hit though? I am curious. Is it a new strategem ?
Prescience/presage ? Also, isn't +2 forbidden anyway in 9th ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/12 07:41:45
Eldenfirefly wrote: Actually I think it does stack. The infernal pact raises the Str of the weapons, the strategem wrath of the wronged gives a +1 to wound. The two are two different things. Its just that wrath of the wronged at 2CP is a bit steep just for the +1 to wound.
Woah ! That's nice ! But as you said: for 2 CP it would for a surprise burst of damage or something like that.
xerxeskingofking wrote: as mentioned in previous posts, Tzaangor have the BRAY keyword, but notably the TZAANGOR keyword still exists separate to that. It seems odd to add in that one keyword for just this one unit to fix a problem that could have been fixed without using it, so prehaps this is a presage of other, non-tzaangor beastmen being involved in the rumoured Chaos codecii due in 2022?
Yeeees ! Slaangors, Nurgors and Khorngors incoming ?
I was wondering: with the new upgraded force sword, what do you think is the best CC weapon for all our sorcerers now ? The Prosperine Kopesh or the scepter ?
yukishiro1 wrote: You can't swap them unfortunately, you have to either pay another +5 points to ge both (exalted sorc) or replace the bolter (term sorc). In neither case is it really worth it I don't think. Though I guess it isn't a terrible way to boost your ES' points a little bit if you need to get him over a certain hump for while we stand.
Damn ! I misread that !
That's sad, our base sorcerers can't even play with the new toy. Plus there's no bonus for having multiple melee weapons on our Exalted. But we can take a force axe on our termi sorcerer ?
Is it me or the data sheet of our Codex isn't written very well ? Like for example, when it's noted we can take one more combi-weapon on a vehicle (rhino, vindicators, etc...) the profile for those weapons aren't written in the weapon part of the sheet ?
To say nothing about rhinos not being able to fit cultist nor the bird boys.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, here goes my first list using the new Codex:
It's by no mean a competitive list (as you can surely see). But it's a list made using mostly what I have, what I like and what I want to try out.
I wanted to try building around the Cult of prophecy WT and Relic. The DP will go ahead with the Rubric filled Rhino, the Mutaliths and the Disc birds as a distraction and to score some early points. Using the combo Warpweave (can't be charged at 9' or more) + Whispers (move 6' when charged) to hopefully survive a bit longer and have a good laugh .
Meanwhile I'll use the Brazier relic and the dice from Divine the future to boost the Hellbrutes in the back and pepper the opponent with the Scarabs.
I don't expect to win but I expect to have fun ! I think I'll take Engage, Mutate landscape (for the DP), and most likely wrath of Magnus.
Any thoughts ?
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/14 21:28:18
Cult of mutation warlord trait (Touch of Vicissitude) and The Stave Abominus. This gives your Exalted Sorcerer 10 attacks S7 -1 1 where each unmodified hit of a 6 causes a mortal wound. You can get 14 attacks with Paradigm of Change and Swelled by the warp. Or just 12 if take swelled by the warp and Dilettante (the advantage of this is you can take Thrydderghyre).
Personally not the biggest fan of close combat sorcerers but if you want to run one it's not the worst set up.
Yeah ! I had noticed this ! Next Friday I'll have a 1000 Pts game against a Space wolf player and I'll try it out then. I'll also bring a Termi Sorcerer with Exalted mutation and battle Psyker for the maximum slug fest.
Sooo... I was going through the TS part of the Kill team compendium and was wondering: which would be the best place to start a proper TS tactics thread for KT ?
I know not everyone is into the game mode and the army options still aren't very complex. But still, it would be nice to talk about it ! Especially since we look pretty strong from a bird's eye view (full reroll on the Tzaangor blades, the ability to shoot twice globally for a CP, mean looking psy powers, etc ...).
So where do you think we should post it ? Make a new thread in Tactics ?
Maybe rather in the specialist forum ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/02 23:17:41
Eldenfirefly wrote: Yup, I agree too. We are very CP hungry. But our relics and warlord traits are great and its so tempting to take a second detachment as well... so hard to choose.
Anyway, can I just rant about our stupid Rhinos transport restrictions?
Tsons Rhinos : Can only carry basically one thing only: Rubric marines. Cultists and Tzaangors not allowed. Although seriously, would it be that OP to have ten Tzaangors in a Rhino ? Tzaangors hit on 4+ and have only 2 attacks of -1AP, 1 damage weapons.
Meanwhile... Admech transport the Dunerider ... carries 12 infantry (2 better). And Admech has literally tons of stuff that is all considered infantry. You can even stuff 12 Rust stalkers or 12 Pteraxli into a Dunerider. Like, how much scarier are 12 Ruststalkers charging out of a Dunerider compared to 10 Tzaangors? And even all space marines Rhinos are not allowed to carry jump pack marines (CSM rhino included). But you can stuff 12 Pteraxli into a Dunerider? Have you seen the size of those Pteraxli ? zzzzz
Somehow, GW thinks that having 10 cultists or Tzaangors in a Rhino is more game breaking than having 12 Rust stalkers or Pteraxli in a Dunerider ???
True ...
Let's hope it'l get fixed in an faq. In the meantime I'll see if my opponents let me house rule it to take the Gors in the Rhinos. Shouldn't be hard, they were just nerfed and no one really cares about Tzaangors anyway
cody.d. wrote: I think it's more of a fluff sort of thing. Remember that Legions were massively arrogant, often viewing themselves as above baseline humans. So it does make sense that they'd stop mutants or cultist from using things that would be reserved for the marines.
But that leaves a gap. Why don't the chaos marines have rickety, crappy transports to bus around their meat shields. Pretty much an Ork trukk for Chaos. Cheaper, squishier than a rhino and possibly having a larger transport cap to dump those cultist onto objectives.
To be fair it's said in the fluff that even sorcerers respect enlightened Tzaangors as they are pretty much some of the closest mortals to Tzeentch (barring exalted). Plus, Tzeentch is all about ambition and social ascension so it wouldn't surprise me if TS marines wouldn't at least tolerate the birdmen. Especially since most of the legion is made of unfeeling automates. The empty suits couldn't really complain
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/08 01:34:23
Mushkilla wrote: EDIT: Also personally I think spending a CP to take the flamer relic is just a bad choice. We are CP starved enough as is. 1CP is worth so much more than d6 S5 flamer shots.
Agreed ! When I faced off against space wolves I brought a squad of 10 warpflamer wielding Rubrics. Twice I toasted squads of bladeguards and blood claws (maybe ? don't remember the name) with the help of empyreal flames and twice I didn't even need the warpflame pistol of the aspiring Sorcerer. Even less so the relic I spent 1 CP to give him
Hey ! So, last time I tried the Guided by Whispers + Warpweave Mantle combo and it pretty much made my Exalted on disc Warlord uncatchable in melee. Sadly it felt like my warlord still wasn't worth it on the VP side. So I thought: why not try to max out a psychic secondary using Dilettante and Chronos Tutorum to give him Seeker of Shadows ?
So my question would be: Should I go for Interrogation, Psychic ritual or Mutate landscape ? Which one would be the easiest to max out ?
To be honest I really don't think the list is competitive in the slightest (competitive in the sense that the objective n°1 is to win) but I really like the Whisper Mantle combo. And I assure you that an Exalted on disc flanked by a bunch of Enlightened Tzaangors with bows and spears can be a right pain in the opponent's side, or at least demand a bit of resources to be dealt with. All the while attracting attention away from the "main force". 12" fast flying units that can wrack points with engage and snag off badly secured objectives are not to be trifled with !
Now, as for Interrogation. I hadn't even caught on that you needed LOS to do the action. It does make it far harder to pull off. I also saw that I had completely forgotten about Pierce the Veil. But to have a Psycker 6" away from the opponent's edge of the board AND from his units seems like a big ask. Especially if you must do it 4 times total. (Maybe it's doable with a Tzaangor Shaman in addition ?). But the best choice definitely look like Mutate or Ritual.
dreadblade wrote: Apologies if this has already been asked (I've not read all 22 pages of this thread)...
Would you take Scarab Occult Terminators or Rubric Marines? Point-for-point, which are best in 9th edition given that both have ObSec?
Depends, both are really durable at range. And both can really put the hurt between the shooting and the psychic. And both really don't do well in combat (even if the Scarabs do way better). Personally I'm really partial to the Rubrics because of the Warpflamers. With the new Psychic power giving them +1 S on a 10 man unit you can really do work. Even in overwatch !
As for the Scarabs I tend to only ever take them in 5 men squads. To really use the -1 dmg against shooting strat.
dan2026 wrote: How are people using their Rubrics with Warpflamers?
Deep striking them in range?
Advancing them up the board?
In Rhinos?
Whats the general game plan for these guys?
I am considering starting Thousand Sons and could use some pointers.
I go with Rhinos. 5++ and 2 combi-melta/combi-bolter make our metal boxes pull their weight. But if there is a good defensible position in the mid board I like to deploy them inside a ruin (if possible) and try and go for warp ritual while they wait for my opponent's vanguard.
dreadblade wrote: What do people do about psychic powers? Do you select the same powers for multiple units to give flexibility for where to use them? Or do you run different powers on different units so you can use them all every round?
I find grind them down works pretty well in smaller game. Especially if you run cult of time. On incursions we typically have less objectives to work with, so I prefer Psychic ritual compared to Mutate Landscape. If you want to Castle up, Banners is also nice since we are pretty hard to move at range. If you want to go the other way, engage can be pretty easy if you deepstrike your Rubric with flamer or your SOT. Wrath of Magnus can be great against the right comp but in smaller game I prefer to use Ahriman as a buffer.
Speaking of ... would you happen to have a pick of your metal Ahriman Never seen one !
In any case, have good games !
whembly wrote: What are your thoughts on the Terrax-Termites?
A 14W T8 3+ 5++ distraction carnifex seems pretty spicy!
What loadouts do you prefer? I think I'm digging the 2x heavy flamers as the range aligns with the 5 melta shots.
If you can fit a pair of them, seems like a great way to get Engage and maybe an auto delivery to get your rubrics for the Burn secondary.
Wait, Forge World gets 5++ ? Did they errata them to have the Arcana Astartes keyword ?
Yes, even the FW daemon engines get Arcana Astartes/Bubonic Astartes.
Many Chaos Space Marine units described in this section can be
fielded in Death Guard and Thousand Sons armies even though
you cannot normally replace the <Legion> keyword with either
Death Guard or Thousand Sons.
You can choose for any <Legion> Nurgle unit from the Imperial
Armour Compendium to be from the Death Guard Legion. If you do:
• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Death Guard.
• That unit gains the Bubonic Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the seven Plague Companies,
and so also gains the <Plague Company> keyword.
You can choose for any <Legion> Tzeentch unit from the
Imperial Armour Compendium to be from the Thousand Sons
Legion. If you do:
• Replace that unit’s <Legion> keyword with Thousand Sons.
• That unit gains the Arcana Astartes keyword.
• That unit can be from one of the nine Great Cults, and so also
gains the <Great Cult> keyword.
xeen wrote: So, I played for the first time in a while on Saturday and tried out a new concept. I took a Terminator Sorcerer with battle psyker with Aether WL trait (for fly and +3 move) and the staff that is good against psykers, but also has a base -4ap. He has 5 attacks, hits on 2's, St 6 ap-4. With Diabolic Strength it gets him up to 6 attacks with St 8. He actually did quite a bit of work against the Ravenwing army I was facing. And he is only 115 points and does not take up a HQ slot (with the Exhaled everyone is going to take anyway). I think he is something to think about to add a little more punch in CC, but save 40ish points from the DP (also the slot if you want that many HQ).
Yeah, I also like to have a punchy character in my TS armies. Even if most of the time I tend to go with an exalted. I only for the base fly keyword and using Dilettante.
xerxeskingofking wrote: GW have annouced that in thier new GT 2022 pack, all armies will be locked into a single subfaction, IE we wont be able to have two different <CULT>s in a tourney legal army anymore.
how to people feel about this? i dont play at the level where this is a concern, since i play 1k games with a single <CULT> anyway, but i understand a lot of our high level meta builds use two cults, so it might impact our playability at that level.
Rest in peace Terminator phalanx of the cult of time.
Daedalus81 wrote: I had adjusted my list based on the rumors -- went with Time only and I really found it to be lacking. I don't think Time has enough play unless you want to do maybe min sized termies drops everywhere or you're still smitten with the all in crystal blob.
Duplicity is still useful as ever, but I'm feeling like Magic is going to be where I explore for now.
Dilettante
- Trait 1 : Reroll Witchfire/Smite
- Relic 1 : Tutorum
- Trait 2 : Arrogance ( use two cabal abilities )
- Relic 2 : -1 cost to Cabal, reroll denies
CP cast into a third spell
This way I can do Doombolt, Firestorm, and Blast with rerolls on everything ( almost as good as scrolls for Firestorm ) and rerolls on all denies. I can bump Blast to 18" and put another D3 on a character nearby for 6 cabal, which in a typical list still leaves me enough to do +2 / no deny / cast again.
TwinPoleTheory wrote: Ironically, this change kind of solidifies the dead on arrival status for the AoR preview earlier this week. TS is about Rubrics, Scarabs, and Vehicles, chicken people have no place in the new order.
Remember - they could have done for Tzaangors what they did for 'nids with Crusher Stampede.
Be mad about it.
One day the bird boys will rise ! In the meantime, if someone is passing by Paris I'll endeavour to find them a new home As for the balance patch, for me the big winner of our dex is the Hellbrute. -1D, 3+, 5++, ignore 1 AP. That's tanky !
.
Never seen one 
