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The sentinel description actually suggests to me a conversion.

Make them all like the middle one and it is just converted killa kans.

gungo wrote:
I mean it makes sense for GW to just combine deathriders and roughriders into 1 datasheet..

I don’t expect the same unit in 2 variants to exist in the future. I’ll be presently surprised though if they include dkok head options.

I do hope the unit that has the dkok keyword is the engineers or some form of combined grenediers/engineer kit..

I just really like the idea of shotgun and gas grenade veteran type deepstriking unit… give them hotshot lasguns option as well and a special mole launcher type weapon and I’ll be happy.

It couldn't be just Death Riders with a head swap without a stark unit redesign, which the art in kill team does not suggest it would be.

They'd need the rebreather unit, different legs, different torso's (4+ save carapace on death riders) different arms to go with the trench coat... Basically, would need whole new riders, and then the steeds are also different with clawed hooves and hairless bodies.

Unless the Attileans had a big redesign of their kit. Datasheet wise, maybe they could be combined with the different options?

A more "Elite Feel"... Hmmm...

Wild speculation here, and something I personally do not agree with at all if it were to be correct, they are purposely trying to reduce the model requirement of guard, specifically the infantry as they find it is overwhelming for new players.

I have(had) the disposable income to purchase 70 plastic DKoK one way or another for an average price of £28 per 10. This was my calculation to make 5x10 man squads, 1 command squad and 1 HW squad and bit to convert commanders etc. So £196 for a platoon, I'd like another also tbh, but then... £196 for roughly 400pts is really hard to swallow, not to mention it was an absolutely mammoth task to paint.

If that platoon cost was close to £120, I think I'd do it again, but yeah, it's pricy for a horde style army... However that is how I want my Krieg to be, I want 100+ men charging over no mans land.

They may keep the old cadian box knocking around, or just have it bare bones, bumped back up to 20x and that could be the conscript box.

They should give the codex an option for militia anyway and allow the use of necromunda kits - with really limited weapon options.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
In all my life playing 40k I have not seen a single Exterminator, GW doesn't even have a photo on it on their website.

There were quite a few knocking around in 3rd edition. I think they were mainly SW ones though, they were cool.

I'm really trying to think back on the order of things in 3rd.

One I'm fairly certain of is the exterminator kit was not available when the guard codex was released.... It potentially was a resin kit by forgeworld though?

I remember the kit being available by the time the SW supplement was released though.

Guard can have all the options they want in terms of characters/support. However I am of the opinion absolutely every one should be attached to a squad, bar a commissar perhaps, who should have the autonomy to stroll across the lines.

Everything else should be wrapped up in commands squads, or embedded within units. It would also bring the amount of data sheets down in the codex. Guard have something like 10x 25-45pts(ish) characters across HQ and Elites (without special characters and tank commanders)

Have command squads, allow unto 2 advisors to be attached to each company/regiment command squad and 0-1 per platoon command squad, allow priests to be attached directly to squads, same with crusaders etc.

Ditch plenty of the unit specific auras they grant for the advisors in favour of granting abilities to one unit in line of sight to the command squad etc.

Just yeah, no need for so many individual characters knocking about in terms of data sheets and independently in a guard force.

The Krieg vets with plasma gun specifically is weird, I think that is just a lost in translation thing, or comes as standard with the squad that can be swapped out considering the special weapon options in the kit.

The Krieg Vet kit has plenty of other options, so I assume they will be represented in some capacity.

Not looking like we'll get Krieg Grenadiers though which makes me a little sad personally, though they could just have Karskin rules and a switch of keywords if they did come back about, hopefully the engineers are still an option.

I would make a rule interaction with troops with vox casters for the indirect fire buff to work. As long as a troop with a voxcaster has line of sight, then no -1. If that troop squad happens to be a command squad with a master of ordinance attached, it is an additional +1 to hit.

Guard are always going to have squishy troops, that's their thing.

Though, I do think there should be a mechanic where they can dig in for the start of a battle, gaining numerous defensive buffs until they move. The game requires movement so it wouldn't turn them into an unstoppable gun line, but it would allow them to survive the first turn. This is troops I'm talking about btw, I don't think their vehicles needs such a buff.

Honestly, guard would work aesthetically so much better if you bought the legs and torso (more than 1 combination) then different sets of heads/arms/backpacks/accessories that were able to make multiple squads.

People get the variety they want, GW probably don't take up any more shop space with guard infantry sets than they currently do.

Also I concur, the second edition cadian sculpts were so much more aesthetically pleasing than any of the plastic sculpts so far (helmet is too big, hands are too big, lasgun is too big).

So, the none heavy weapons in infantry squads rumour seems false when reading the warcom article.

Whether on their own or as part of an Infantry Squad, Heavy Weapons Teams are responsible for taking down the big beasts that lasguns won’t scratch.

Hmmm... I think I'm going to get the army box. And shadow vault. I'm a Krieg player, and want my army to remain Krieg, but there was always something about having mixed regiments in second edition that I really liked. I also want the codex ASAP so that is another factor.

If worst comes to the worst, I'll move on some of the kits I don't need, but I'm fairly confident I can convert some of the new kits via kit bash with the Krieg Vet kit to make some new variety of Krieg units there. Though... I also think I should wait, as the optimist in me still thinks we will get more Krieg kits in plastic at some point.

Really, for me anyway, I just want a unit of new kit bashed catachan to be mordant acid dogs and some kit bashed salvar chem dogs to add in for variety anyway in terms of mixing regiments.

Most probably know/realise this already, but the Cadians are the same CAD design as the Krieg veterans, The leg poses/stances are exactly the same, and I'm fairly sure they are the same arms till it get to the cuffs of the uniform and then the hands. Certain weapons are exactly the same pose/stance such as the plasma gunner.

EDIT: Not completely the same, they don't have the kneeling poses, but mostly the same. To be fair, I've got 50x of the new Krieg vets painted, and you can't really tell there's some double or tripled up poses in there with some basic changes, such as accessories and different bases.

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm surpremely disappointed that Commissar Yarrick is out of the codex. He's such an iconic character and foil to Ghazzy, I'm hoping he didn't just kick the bucket off-screen or if they just ended up Chekov or Al'Rahem'ed him into the history pages.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
So Scions are getting the Harlequin treatment sorta. TF is a Lord Solar?

Also way to go GW for invalidating a bunch of people's squads of Scions? Went full Plasma or full Melta or full Volley? Well screw you, thats not how the kit is made!

Lord Solar is basically another title for Warmaster, with less bad history attached to the name. So like Lord Solar Macharius.

I doubt he is gone. He may end up getting an updated model at some point and that may include a small weapon/wargear change. I also imagine the story will return to armageddon at some point.

Alternatively, they have realised that some human characters shouldn't be alive in the era indomitus?

My DKOK is an assault Korp/Mechanised company anyway so I'll adjust with the doctrines to suit that.

Now, I'm trying to figure out a paint scheme for the cadians in the army box in advance, as I don't want them to be cadians, but also don't want to do and/or wait for a head swap option either (official or third party).

Thinking mainly black/midnight blue, or green camo pattern, then either option would include a blacked out face with a face paint style skull on them. Then include some morbid trinkets/skulls etc to have them as raised from a death cult/culture/tribe of sorts.

So, the sentinal really didn't need a full new kit I agree.

However, the thing that is really irking me with the new kit is how weird the armoured version looks, and how normal the scout version looks. The scout version doesn't have the weird ergonomic vibes I am getting off the armoured version which is what is putting me off... The armoured version almost looks Tau-ish, but the scout does not.

Third row, 4th across is what I am potentially going to go for, with plain matt black carapace armour to break it up a bit.

So many other options than the 8th cadian scheme.... The 8th cadian standard scheme is genuinely so boring.

There's enough in the lower portion of the rider to make me think a Krieg alternate/upgrade set may come at some point. I doubt there's enough sprue space for an alternate horse which is the true crux that makes it unlikely it is a dual Krieg set unless the Krieg horse had a redesign, and the hooves and head swap, and the tail can be removed.

For the rider to be Krieg it would be different torso and head, the arms and legs would be fine for Krieg.

Just realised it is a full helmet with the fur ring attached, as opposed to them being separate parts. Weird design, sort of like it, very 40k impractical though.

Just happened to watch Sodaz' death korps of krieg video on youtube, the horses in that are more similar to the new horses as opposed to the forgeworld horses. I'm more into the idea that those horses can work with the coat/drape thing for Krieg now.

DKoK get a mini transhuman (only would one 3+).

And 80pts per squad. The true kicker will be if they are locked into regimental doctrines with that. However, stick them in cover, and they will be harder to kill, so I wonder if the Cult of Sacrfice doctrine could in fact work for them?

Is 20pts per squad extra going to be worth mini trans.

I assume this is DKoK Vet guardsmen also... I wonder if they'll be able to get other upgrades that make them a little tankier (medic etc).

I'm not being a white knight etc here, but can we really stop having a 'sky is falling' meltdown every time codex rumours pop up?

Yep, the rules don't look amazing in some regard, and have absurdity in others (I also dislike ignore inv rules), but it has been shown time and again that when certain people get their hands on the rules, they can actually make things work - 2A guardsmen might actually be competent, let's wait and see.

We don't need another negative spiral of a thread just for the sake of it... It's overplayed in all the spheres of discourse when it comes to 40k in particular, leave it for the goons on prominent social media platforms to have the meltdowns and leave this thread for just actually what it is, rumours.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

We don't need another negative spiral of a thread just for the sake of it... It's overplayed in all the spheres of discourse when it comes to 40k in particular, leave it for the goons on prominent social media platforms to have the meltdowns and leave this thread for just actually what it is, rumours.

People aren't complaining 'for the sake of it'. They're specifically complaining about the reveals/rumours - which are the topic of this thread.

And the complaining is without all the relevant context, it's prudent not to call any of the new rules amazing without all the knowledge, such as pt cost, any potential restrictions etc, at the same time it is not the time to call anything awful without the full context.

Discussing it is fine, as long as it is an objective and thought out discussion, lots of what typical happens is not that.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
2A guardsmen might actually be competent, let's wait and see.

They could be amazing. But, did you get into Guard collecting for their incredible close combat ability? Lots of things make an army good, but they aren't always in character.

Again, I don't dispute this, but for certain guard it is fairly lore friendly... There are melee based regiments, and Catachan (especially Devils) and Krieg have always been fairly competent melee fighters for humans.

I really do hope senior officers aren't going to only be cadian and/or special characters.

I don't mind my HQ being called a platoon command squad in some regard, but I do want a none cadian/special character option to have a character issue 2 orders.... Or have a lore friendly DKoK Marshall on the field rather than just a Lieutenant.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I don't mind my HQ being called a platoon command squad in some regard, but I do want a none cadian/special character option to have a character issue 2 orders.... Or have a lore friendly DKoK Marshall on the field rather than just a Lieutenant.

Just convert up a DKoK version of the new characters to count as them. Given there's no alternative that they could be confused for, it shouldn't be a problem.

I know I can do that, and fully intend to do that, it's more to do with keyword interactions, especially for stratagems and/or relics.

Just allow a standard regimental command squad with a generic senior officer.

The latest leaks from Mordian Glory have no command squads in elites and the following as HQ choices -

Cadian command squad
Cadian castellan
Gaunts Ghosts
Iron hand Straken
Lord Solar
Scion Command Squad
Platoon Command Squad
Primaris Psyker
Tank Commander
Creed

Unless there have been some amendments to that since, that is the leak.

Now granted, there is some debate on whether senior officers grant 2 orders, or 1 with the re-roll 1 order, but the platoon command squad does not have a senior officer, meaning they are all special characters or Cadian.

Early days still anyway, so not fully dejected about it, but it would be a bit meh if it did happen.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The latest leaks from Mordian Glory have no command squads in elites and the following as HQ choices -

Unless there have been some amendments to that since, that is the leak.

Now granted, there is some debate on whether senior officers grant 2 orders, or 1 with the re-roll 1 order, but the platoon command squad does not have a senior officer, meaning they are all special characters or Cadian.

Early days still anyway, so not fully dejected about it, but it would be a bit meh if it did happen.

I'm not sitting through that whole livestream of nonsense. This is the bit that I followed:

Spoiler:

If that's not the case? Meh. Not like they've removed the Marshal from the IA Compendium.

I didn't sit through it, he posted a google sheet on the video:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1PlnctYYLtDqTp5tDNhElj5en8eecnczPXVt9S8wfqck/edit?usp=sharing

If regiment specific stratagems are locked to the regimental traits then it will work. If the regiment specific stratagems are locked to regimental keywords, then it will not.

E.g. - Cult of sacrifice trait gets *example* unique stratagem - this is fine.

If the stratagems are locked to regimental keywords - e.g. Cadian - this is not fine as it means certain units will have different stratagem choices than others, even though they should be functioning as one 'custom' regiment.

Same with relics and keywords, it predominantly just break immersion which is a little annoying for purests.

For my DKoK Assault Korps, I want to be able to use the same stratagems for the same units, not be locked out of a stratagem for 1 unit as it is a count As Cadian Castellan.