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Never liked the way the newcrons were retconned, it undermined the c'tan. No one would take Khorne seriously if the world eaters just broke him and enslaved his bits. The C'tan are realspace gods they shouldn't have been defeatable.

But The newcrons came about in a very comicbook esque era of 40k where one upping everyone with being the bestest was seemingly the modus operandi. So you get necrons owning technology that can delete the whole galaxy just because. Again, undermines too much just for some 'bestest' cred. Just to make the silent king the biggest bad boss. No, just as they walked back Draigo's abilities, they need to walk back the necron's. Even the emperor isn't portrayed like this, despite being poster boy. It's the only example of a faction being given true unequivocal dominion and control, rather than perceived control with other things above them. 40k is ALWAYS about bigger fish, and yet the necrons get portrayed as the biggest fish. it doesn't gel. It's worse for me than the dislike of the tau being 'nice'.

However, you can spin this in an 'all as planned' tzeentchian way. The c'tan broken themselves into shards to hide their essence away so the eldar gods couldn't easily find them. They were the only threats to their existence until the ridiculousness of the necronretcon. The whole story is being told from the necron perspective, but that doesn't mean it's true. 40k is great at that. So they thought they'd defeated the c'tan, but the c'tan decided to hide away in tesseract vaults, until they wish to reform and come back stronger than ever.

It's basically a sleeper cell inside a sleeper cell - the necrons thought their long sleep was their idea, while the c'tan were long sleeping inside their long sleep....

My head-canon since forever is that the Outsider in its rumored dyson sphere is out there, unbroken, and biding it's time (or simply hasn't woken up yet). My desired storyline is that there are Oldcrons with it, Pariahs and all, complete with their tougher-than-a-marine-esqe stats.

Totally works.

I was trying to do a classic 'what you think you know you actually don't' manoeuvre GW likes to pull to try and retconn the newcrons without changing anything.

By making everything from a fallible necron point of view not being correct and the c'tan are actually still gods and masterminding things.

It can be both. The Necrons could have turned on the C'tan, broken them, while some C'tan escaped or decided to make the best of a bad situation and manipulated or engineered some form of self-fragmentation or self-exile. There are many C'tan, not just 4 now, so both situations could be true.

Things to consider here.

The Deceiver was the one to lead the Necrontyr down the path of self-damnation. He assisted in the development of biotransference.

Not all instances of biotransference are equal. Your basic Necron Warriors are comprised of the former general citizenry, and they border on mindless automata. Certainly they’ve no distinct personality, but do have some basic problem solving skills it seems.

Only the high ups of the nobility got a Proper Transfer. Or so we’re told. Certainly we know The Silent King had total dominion through his command codes, ensuring absolute obedience to his commands. As part of his self-imposed penance and subsequent exile, he destroyed those codes.

But someone granted him those codes, yes? And only after biotransference made such control possible, yes?

I put it to you that it’s well within The Deceiver’s skills and personality to have a cheeky back door into that, so it could enforce a Truth among all Necrons.

Previously, it was The Deceiver that convinced the C’Tan to start devouring one another, until only the four remained.

Now we’re told it was the Necrons turning on their masters, using their insanely powerful might as well be magic weapons to rend them apart, imprisoning the remaining Shards to keep them shattered and shackled.

I put it to you that Both Are True. But in fact, not all the C’Tan were rent asunder. How simple would it be to insert into the Silent King the memory of The Deceiver definitely being the first to go, you know, last Tuesday afternoon? Definitely all gone. Yup. Definitely it’s Shards in those bottles. 100%. And from The Silent King to every other Necron.

Then, having had your fun? You just slip away and cause mischief and mayhem elsewhere. After all, your competitors for that delicious life stuff are all but gone from reality now. Just you, maybe some others which threatened you into it.

And we can extend that to The Silent King’s own memories being a Lie Become Truth, thanks to programming.

Therefore, the two backgrounds aren’t entirely mutually exclusive.

While the newer lore isn't perfect, the old lore kinda just felt like Tyranids, but metal. Another functionally mindless race out to destroy everything.

While I am sad about loosing some of the bits of old lore (RIP Paraiah's) Overall, I think it's been a more positive change than a negative one.

Mad Doc covered the other angles pretty well in his post above.

 Tawnis wrote:
While the newer lore isn't perfect, the old lore kinda just felt like Tyranids, but metal. Another functionally mindless race out to destroy everything.

I never understood this take. Nids and Crons seem radically different. Tyranids wipe the galaxy cleam, making evrything Nid. Necrons turn the galaxy into a terrorfarm for realspace gods and seal it off from the warp.

Not to mention the fact we have 8 flavors of marine codex or whatever.

 Tawnis wrote:
While the newer lore isn't perfect, the old lore kinda just felt like Tyranids, but metal. Another functionally mindless race out to destroy everything.

While I am sad about loosing some of the bits of old lore (RIP Paraiah's) Overall, I think it's been a more positive change than a negative one.

Mad Doc covered the other angles pretty well in his post above.

Whether that's an accurate take or not, the same is far worse for every imperial faction - they're space marines that fight for honour and the imperium BUT BLUE/RED/BLACK! If you accept that for the imperium you must accept it for anything else. Similarity of theme is not a reason to disqualify an army, or the imperium would only have one...


@Mad Doc, no problem with those concepts, the main issue is the seeming actual mastery and in control power of necrons which is at odds with every other faction (even the eldar weren't in as much control as they thought they were).

The c'tan are a great foil for the setting that were squandered to make necrons uber when they retconned them and I think just a small amount of tweaking to get them in a position of unknown dominance will do wonders.

My own version goes like this: the Necrotyr go to war with the Old Ones. The Old Ones win. Necrons come back with C'Tan. Old Ones start losing. Old Ones start using the Eldar as their perfect psychic shock-troops, and go back to winning. The strongest C'Tan begin to devour the others and use the energy to tear holes in space-time, which is more than the Eldar can handle. Now very desperate, the Old Ones try to create the ultimate superweapon by pretty much mashing up the Eldar with a giant fungus alien called a squiggoth: the Krork. This turns out to be a terrible idea as the squig DNA infinitely replicates super-psykers with giant brains whose powers all exponentially increase the more of them there are, and the (already weakened) fabric of space-time completely explodes.

In the wake of this disaster the Old Ones were almost obliterated, and the survivors degenerated into Slaan. However, the C'Tan were also caught in the warpstorm, and the Deceiver unluckily happened to be near the center of it. Now obviously the Silent King was never given complete control over all Necrons; he was given the power by the Deceiver to betray the other C'Tan so that the Deceiver would rule the entire galaxy alone. But with the Deceiver shattered the Silent King now had the opportunity to attack the remaining C'Tan on his own, and did so. Any last attempts by the C'Tan to take shelter from the warp rifts were repelled by Necron weapons.

The Silent King was not, however, able to realize his dream of taking the galaxy for himself. Ever expanding warp rifts were making space travel increasingly impossible for the Necrons, and what's worse a new race of invaders called the Enslavers had poured in from the warp, and were hunting down and killing Necrons (who lacked the psychic defenses of the Eldar). Running out of options and unable to sustain any sort of conflict with the galaxy in such a state, the Silent King ordered the remaining Necrons to seal themselves in stasis tombs that Enslavers would be unable to locate. With no knowledge of how long it would take for the galaxy to stabilize and the fear that awakening too early would only result in the Necrons being isolated and killed while warpstorms hampered them, he ordered them to sleep for a bazillion years and then reluctantly destroyed the Deceiver's remaining codes, knowing that if he retained them the Deceiver might return and control him once again.

In the aftermath the Eldar fought a long war against the Enslavers, but able to counter their warp-powers with their own psychic abilities and traverse through the webway they held off long enough for the warp-rifts to begin healing (which did happen back when the galaxy was younger). The Enslavers, realizing they were losing ground, retreated back into the warp. No more Krork spawned after the cataclysm, but related creatures called Orks, Grots, and Snotlings began spawning instead, with pieces of their abilities.

And as for the C'Tan, they're still around but in pieces of their former selves. They're largely dependent on the Necrons now, but the Necrons are more dependent on them than they would like to admit; not just for their raw power but their knowledge of mastery of physics. And some of the pieces have already succeeded in rejoining...


Well that went on longer than I meant, but it's my attempt at several things: 1. explaining what actually happened to the Old Ones (and Krork) 2. making the Deceiver smart enough to potentially deceive someone 3. giving the Silent King a good reason to delete the codes and go to sleep 4. still keeping the Necrons and C'Tan kind of scary 5. not making Necron lore too close to Tyranids or Chaos. And it gives you the flexibility to say that your lord controls his C'Tan or that your C'Tan controls the lord, which I like.

Neat theory Orekosaurus, but I thought the Necrons were always able to travel through space in a manner that bypassed the Warp altogether?

There was some weird retconning kind of where they for some reason decided that necrons needed to steal webway gates and call them dolmen gates?

I don't know if their inertialess drives are still a thing.

Did they ever explain why the Pariahs were no longer a thing?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Did they ever explain why the Pariahs were no longer a thing?

No, the necrons are afaik the only thing in 40k that got a top to bottom full on retcon reaming. GW normally likes to reinterpret things, or make them mistakes or misunderstandings when they update stuff. Oh you thought it meant X, no it really meant Y. But the necrons for some reason got unsubtly torn apart and rebuilt.

That included just deleting chunks of their background without any alternative interpretation - just removed entirely. Pariah were one such thing.

I assumed that the Pariah were just a short term experiment that a few scattered Necrons did and then got ditched because they decided the Pariahs weren't cost effective, or something along those lines.

But yeah they were a good creepy idea when they lasted.

the implication was that the pariah gene itself was added to the human genome in the deep past, specifically to use them later as a weapon.

So it's not really possible for them to be a short term experiment.

Well I meant the actually making the humans with the gene into Pariahs part was short lived.

The experiment with the gene itself was elongated by the 60 million year nap. And remember, 60 million years ago humans were still primeapes at best, and the Necrons back then would have no idea that humans would become so widespread.

 kyrtuck wrote:
Neat theory Orekosaurus, but I thought the Necrons were always able to travel through space in a manner that bypassed the Warp altogether?

As Hellebore said I think they retconned that along with Tyranids being sublight speed, and now they use the warp in some vague fashion. I never liked the idea that Necrons had there own special hyperspace different from everyone else's, so in my version they just use super-calculations plus warp-nullification to make very safe warp jumps. But very energy-intensive so they can't hop around as frequently as Eldar. They don't normally use the webway which would be silly, but can enter it through their stolen gates if they really need to (dangerous because they don't know it very well).

I also don't know if there's any actual GW basis for the idea that warp rifts will close over time, but it makes sense to me because otherwise you'd have 3 more Eyes of Terror still floating around.

 kyrtuck wrote:
Well I meant the actually making the humans with the gene into Pariahs part was short lived.

The experiment with the gene itself was elongated by the 60 million year nap. And remember, 60 million years ago humans were still primeapes at best, and the Necrons back then would have no idea that humans would become so widespread.

Yeah it all being a Necron conspiracy makes no sense, if anything it would be an Old One project since they were supposedly tinkering with humans for a bit before abandoning them. In my headcannon blanks are a sort of "counter-wave" psyker that pushes back on any other attempt at psychically manipulating the material world, and would have been valuable to the Old Ones in suppressing dangerous warp-energies. But the early experiments were inconclusive and they never had a chance to view the final results. Instead the Necrons found out about them and saw their huge potential, so created the Pariahs instead.

 Hellebore wrote:
No, the necrons are afaik the only thing in 40k that got a top to bottom full on retcon reaming. GW normally likes to reinterpret things, or make them mistakes or misunderstandings when they update stuff. Oh you thought it meant X, no it really meant Y. But the necrons for some reason got unsubtly torn apart and rebuilt.

That included just deleting chunks of their background without any alternative interpretation - just removed entirely. Pariah were one such thing.

I certainly can't think of an equivalent example so late in the game's development, unless you count squats/LoV. And it's really bizarre, because the Newcron lore sucks and causes as many problems as it solves.

What about someone who thought the Nightbringer was cool and wanted all his Necrons to serve him? Well he's out of luck. What about someone with a bunch of Pariah models? Out of luck. But I didn't have much trouble making up my own story that still includes them and I only spent a few hours thinking it through.

 Hellebore wrote:
Never liked the way the newcrons were retconned, it undermined the c'tan. No one would take Khorne seriously if the world eaters just broke him and enslaved his bits. The C'tan are realspace gods they shouldn't have been defeatable.

I like it, for my part. An uprising against your own gods is cool theme. It gives a mythological quality to a people's past. The Klingons from Star Trek claim that they once had gods, but that they killed them.

The C'tan were mighty, but they evolved in a (literal) vacuum, with no meaningful opposition to force them to adapt and change. In time, they were made obsolete.

Mind, the lore should have kept some C'tan (or parts of them) around, as meaningful threats with their own plans. Although they are from realspace rather than the Warp, in many ways they are even more alien than the Chaos gods, since they are not born from the emotions of mortal beings. However, similar to the Chaos gods, they offer all sorts of possibilities for deals with the Devil. They don't even need worshipers, only servants... a purely transactional relationship. "You help me escape this tesseract vault, and I will reward you beyond your imagination."

.

-Guardsman- wrote:

Mind, the lore should have kept some C'tan (or parts of them) around, as meaningful threats with their own plans. Although they are from realspace rather than the Warp, in many ways they are even more alien than the Chaos gods, since they are not born from the emotions of mortal beings. However, similar to the Chaos gods, they offer all sorts of possibilities for deals with the Devil. They don't even need worshipers, only servants... a purely transactional relationship. "You help me escape this tesseract vault, and I will reward you beyond your imagination."

It did.

The secret antagonist of the Infinite and the Divine is a rogue C'tan Shard. A Deceiver Shard tricked Abaddon into the whole Gothic War in the BFG game and the final boss of the Rogue Trader game is a Shard.

Necrons do not have full control over the C'tan Shards, and occasionally they escape and go rogue.

There is also The Severed that are Necrons that have been mind wiped and enslaved by their Tomb World AI and are basically Oldcrons. You could easily justify the lore of a C'tan Shards escaping and mind enslaving a Tomb World into serving it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hellebore wrote:
Never liked the way the newcrons were retconned, it undermined the c'tan. No one would take Khorne seriously if the world eaters just broke him and enslaved his bits. The C'tan are realspace gods they shouldn't have been defeatable.

The issue here is that unlike the Chaos Gods, The C'tan have tabletop models. FFS Uriel Ventris defeated the Nightbringer, the C'tan were already undermined into the underground.

At least with the "new" (FFS it has been fourteen years) lore, those defeats can be minimised as just being a small Shard instead of "an Ultramarine can somehow defeat a Star God".

 Tyran wrote:
The issue here is that unlike the Chaos Gods, The C'tan have tabletop models. FFS Uriel Ventris defeated the Nightbringer, the C'tan were already undermined into the underground.

At least with the "new" (FFS it has been fourteen years) lore, those defeats can be minimised as just being a small Shard instead of "an Ultramarine can somehow defeat a Star God".

Like an avatar of Khaine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe daemons are essentially components of their respective gods, too. Except that instead of being the scattered remnants of a destroyed whole, they are more like tendrils, simply retracting to the bigger mass of Chaos energy that constitutes a Chaos god. Banishing even something so small as a nurgling is like slapping away a slimy tentacle of Nurgle trying to force its way into realspace. But of course, an Imperial Guard conscript who banishes a nurgling by stomping it with his boot cannot rightfully boast that he fought the Lord of Decay and prevailed.

.

-Guardsman- wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
The issue here is that unlike the Chaos Gods, The C'tan have tabletop models. FFS Uriel Ventris defeated the Nightbringer, the C'tan were already undermined into the underground.

At least with the "new" (FFS it has been fourteen years) lore, those defeats can be minimised as just being a small Shard instead of "an Ultramarine can somehow defeat a Star God".

Like an avatar of Khaine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe daemons are essentially components of their respective gods, too. Except that instead of being the scattered remnants of a destroyed whole, they are more like tendrils, simply retracting to the bigger mass of Chaos energy that constitutes a Chaos god. Banishing even something so small as a nurgling is like slapping away a slimy tentacle of Nurgle trying to force its way into realspace. But of course, an Imperial Guard conscript who banishes a nurgling by stomping it with his boot cannot rightfully boast that he fought the Lord of Decay and prevailed.

.

Once upon a time that used to be the lore, but nowadays Daemons are individuals with their own personalities and goals independent of their God.
Particularly successful and powerful Daemons are even capable of breaking with the God and become either independent or change allegiances to another God or hypothetically even ascend as a new Chaos God.

Daemons still start off as a sliver of the God’s own being.

The more powerful the Daemon, the greater its autonomy.

There was a forgotten WD article Donkey’s ago which added some interesting perspective. Like Lesser Daemons not technically being malevolent. They’re created to do certain things, and naturally to enjoy doing such things. Think like a lovely Pupper training to be a Working Dog.

But to the degree they’ve no concept of another being not wanting to be involved. So, Plaguebearers enjoy listing and spreading disease, and must assume all others enjoy the same.

Whereas a Greater Daemon has actual sentience. It’s free to pursue its own goals, to a limit (Skarband for instance took ages to convince trying it on against Khorne). But within that limit? The god doesn’t particularly care how they go about achieving it. And there’s no requirement for it to Play Nice with its brother Greater Daemons of the same god.

To sort of go back to the OP.

Do they need to walk back Necron abilities?
I mean... I kind of feel they have. Yes, the 5th edition book is full of obvious nonsense that would make them immediate masters of the galaxy. But in modern lore it never seems to play out that way. There's far more emphasis on the Necrons falling apart - mentally, physically etc.

I personally didn't like the classic C'Tan. GW revealing that almost every single major mystery in the lore was explained by "the C'Tan did it/are behind it" was lame. If you liked them then fine - but for me it felt like an imposed Johnny come lately. Being able to play supposed gods on the table felt... incredibly dumb.

I guess my issue is that I don't see the Necrons as this terrifying all-conquering force. I see them as grimdark horror because they are insane. Every single one of them is screwed up by the process of Biotransference - just in a variety of different ways. Time is not your enemy, forever is.

How exactly you convey that in game is debateable - much like all the flaws that should effect every faction. But I do think Black Library has sort of done that in more recent fluff.

Tyel wrote:
I personally didn't like the classic C'Tan. GW revealing that almost every single major mystery in the lore was explained by "the C'Tan did it/are behind it" was lame. If you liked them then fine - but for me it felt like an imposed Johnny come lately. Being able to play supposed gods on the table felt... incredibly dumb.

That was frankly always my opinion of the old C'Tan as well. They felt like a rip-off of the Chaos gods from a fanfic setting similar to 40k, who then somehow got ported back into 40k despite the original version still being there. Awkward and out of place, like if you just added the Zerg from Starcraft to the setting as a new race unrelated to Tyranids.

But I don't condone the terrible way they got done in by the new fluff. That was very lame. I much prefer their mutual destruction with the Old Ones as the final end to the War in Heaven.

Tyel wrote:
To sort of go back to the OP.

Do they need to walk back Necron abilities?
I mean... I kind of feel they have. Yes, the 5th edition book is full of obvious nonsense that would make them immediate masters of the galaxy. But in modern lore it never seems to play out that way. There's far more emphasis on the Necrons falling apart - mentally, physically etc.

I personally didn't like the classic C'Tan. GW revealing that almost every single major mystery in the lore was explained by "the C'Tan did it/are behind it" was lame. If you liked them then fine - but for me it felt like an imposed Johnny come lately. Being able to play supposed gods on the table felt... incredibly dumb.

I guess my issue is that I don't see the Necrons as this terrifying all-conquering force. I see them as grimdark horror because they are insane. Every single one of them is screwed up by the process of Biotransference - just in a variety of different ways. Time is not your enemy, forever is.

How exactly you convey that in game is debateable - much like all the flaws that should effect every faction. But I do think Black Library has sort of done that in more recent fluff.

It's more that no faction should have galaxy delete buttons as a feature of their background - "but they're insane or don't want to use it", is not a narratively effective 'balance' against that capability. It's purely big dick swinging fanfic created to make the faction uber at their inception when the retcon happened during Driago and Sanguinor era of juvenile writing.

The c'tan 'did everything' was a meme before memes and it doesn't stack up. The only two things the c'tan did, was influence the machine cult and create the pariah gene. Cegorach can claim to have done more. That's pretty small in the scheme of 40k. The attitude of 'new stuff can't do big things' is really limiting to the setting and is biased in its application. Sisters now have mech suits just because, something completely new but it's ok because sisters get them. Tau just existing gets gak on, despite the fact that every faction was 'new' at one point or other and if we applied the intolerance to tau to everything, there wouldn't be a 40k setting to bitch about.

The 'fighting a god' on the tabletop is no more implausible than fighting Angron or a bloothirster, each a powerful manifestation of Khorne in realspace. Modern c'tan were weak from having been starved. And they don't need to be shards (pure derivative of Khaine rather than something original), when being realspace gods they aren't bound by physics and could appear in 50 places at once, each manifestation being a fraction of the over all power.

The current necrons were mary sued - they got all these uber abilities, enslaved and then overthrew their gods, immortal and their downsides aren't really downsides, they just make them sad they aren't real boys anymore. When they were damned to servitude they actually had real consequences to their actions, now it's just waiting find a way to put their minds back in other bodies, so they're just immortal robots who have galaxy bombs and pokeball c'tan. Oh but they're a bit rusty and fall a part a little - it has no actual affect on the faction as a whole, but it's sad...



The cultural aspects of the newcrons are totally fine, they could have added those without any issue whatsoever without retconning everything else. They could even have had 'free' necrons who had no c'tan to own them and tried to recreate their living empires (like flesh eater court levels of dellusion), without changing the fact that they sold themselves to the c'tan and were enslaved by them. The game play and background of the faction would look exactly the same as they do now, except that they wouldn't have galaxy nukes, wouldn't have the power to break gods and just in general would suffer the consequences of their actions a lot more than they currently do. The silent king becomes a defiant revolutionary figure, rather than just a boring ubercron with super juice who feels really bad about things despite regaining his entire empire and people back and destroying his oppressors - but we still don't have meat! It's so sad and depressing we didn't have this complete victory while wearing meat suits instead of immortal robot bodies. oh the ennui!

The infinite and the divine really shows how much this is a case of having their cake and just being disappointed they didn't get icing on it, so they're spending all their time trying to put icing on the cake. The woe is me the peasants don't have minds aspect is unimportant - the thousands sons manage with just sorcerer characters and 40k basically treats the average grunt as an NPC regardless or species, with only the bosses having real personalities and stories (there are some exceptions, but the general rule holds true). The upper echelons are trying to get meat back and are exploiting the immortal uber tech they have at the same time.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:

That was frankly always my opinion of the old C'Tan as well. They felt like a rip-off of the Chaos gods from a fanfic setting similar to 40k,

Huh, I don't really see why they'd be "rip-offs" of Chaos gods. C'tan always struck me as coming from a "being of pure energy" idea which shows up in various sci-fi settings and the odd Star Trek episode. In 40k they functioned as a realspace antithesis to the Chaos gods, which I thought was great.

 Hellebore wrote:

The c'tan 'did everything' was a meme before memes and it doesn't stack up. The only two things the c'tan did, was influence the machine cult and create the pariah gene. Cegorach can claim to have done more.

There was the whole "The Nightbringer created the universal image of death in the subconcious of all mortal races." Which I admit, the first time I read it I rolled my eyes. But once I started down my Necron path I thought it was hard AF.

On the bright side, having started to get into Epic I love that the Necrons there are the OldCrons. Pariahs are there and their silly new things aren't.

It was couched as potentially being metaphor, although could have been true.

It was part of the truly mythological aspect of the war in heaven, when they discussed the 100 swords of khaine, the first wraithguard and the aspect of the destroyer infecting Khaine when he fought the nightbringer, giving us the reaper aspect.

The chaos gods are no different, they have a feedback where their visage is tied to the emotions that feed them. They imprint themselves onto the souls of mortals as well.

And while yeah it's pretty edgy and silly simply because they decided to make him look like a human reaper rather than a necron version of death, in the metaphysics of 40k it's in keeping with the way greater galactic entities behave.

So...
In what way bringing back the C'tan "stronger than ever" actually walks back the Necron abilities?

Instead of having to deal with one setting ending button, now we would have to deal with several setting ending gods. Seems a really counterproductive way to address the issue.

 Hellebore wrote:
It was couched as potentially being metaphor, although could have been true.

It was part of the truly mythological aspect of the war in heaven, when they discussed the 100 swords of khaine, the first wraithguard and the aspect of the destroyer infecting Khaine when he fought the nightbringer, giving us the reaper aspect.

I don't recall where that's from, but what I'm looking at is in the description of the Nightbringer alongside it's codex entry: "The Nightbriner used it's powers to reach into the minds of young races and plant the seeds of their darkest fears. . ." and "Primordial fear of the Nightbringer had been mprinted upon the collective psyche of many more races than it could ever feed upon . . .it had become the personification of death in every species racial memory". . . "only the Krork escaped. . . their race being spared the fear of death." Which is kinda a fun flex for Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyran wrote:
So...
In what way bringing back the C'tan "stronger than ever" actually walks back the Necron abilities?

I think because it means the Necrons aren't/weren't out there killing "gods".

 Tyran wrote:
Instead of having to deal with one setting ending button, now we would have to deal with several setting ending gods. Seems a really counterproductive way to address the issue.

Hey man, what part of grim darkness is unclear?

There was a really cool wd article that went into the legends of the war in heaven describing the things I mention. It's during that story that the fear of death concept is supposed to have occurred.


@tyran, if khorne can't one shot the universe and is still considered a god, why do the ctan need to be able to do that to be considered one? They never had world ending powers, why are you making the arguments that the would suddenly get them?