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In a thread in ATT it has been decided that:

You need at least 2 units of kroot (1 is not enough).

You must have 1 unit of stealths to take the pressure off the terrain (which means 2 elite crisis units).

Dpods are not compulsory, just good for spare points (arrays are better).

Also, general knowledge is that:

Fireknives are the only suit of choice.

Broadsides are not as good as a third railhead.

Minimum fire warriors.

Basically, 1500 tau lists use this as a template:

• Shas'el - plasma, missile/cib, array, hwmulti 97/100
  
• Shas'el - plasma, missile, array, hwmulti 97
  
• 2 Crisis 169
  - team leader, plasma, missile, array, hwmulti, 2 shield drones
  - plasma, missile, multi
  
• 2 Crisis 169
  - team leader, plasma, missile, array, hwmulti, 2 shield drones
  - plasma, missile, multi
• 4 Stealths 120
  
• 6 Fire Warriors 60
  
• 10 Kroot 70
  
• 10 Kroot 70
  
• Hammerhead - railgun, sms, decoys, multi, lock 180
  
• Hammerhead - railgun, sms, decoys, multi, lock 180
  
• Hammerhead - railgun, sms, decoys, multi, lock 180

Models: 43

Army Total: 1392/1395

Here are my questions:

Is the centurian a good choice? With stealths being a compulsory choice now, plus 3 railheads, there is less use for more anti-infantry. However, it is better than the fireknife against oblits, and this is important.

Is a bodyguard worth the points sink? It costs an extra 50pts over making a unit of 5 elite crisis. The result is a loss in firepower (due to shield drones) for an extra scoring unit, and with ld9 the unit is stronger.

Are units of 3 crisis too big? The previous question is heavily linked to this one. If they are, then the bodyguard may be necessary.

Are 4 stealths better than 3 stealths and 3 gun drones? We know 3 stealths and 6 gun drones is better than 5 stealths, and it's better to start adding targeting arrays or gun drones than getting 6 stealths.

How useful would a third unit of kroot be? There won't be much terrain left for them, but kroot aren't often stuck in terrain, they are usually just standing in front of crisis units to act as a speed bump from assault, or tieing up enemy shooty units.

First Q: Fk is better, the more redundancy in an army the more robust and less hurt by loss it is.

2 Q: If you're following the guidlines you have written down, no.

3 Q: Yes it is, but even with 2man units you shouldn't need BGs. 6 FK are enough. Also if you do add another 2 FK via BGs, then you suddenly have 4 Crisis units relying on terrain for protection rather than 2 and are defeating the point of taking the SS in the first place.

4 Q ersonally, I don't like using GD, be it 6 or only 3, the unit is far to big for the firepower it produces and must be bonded. Atm I prefere the 4mn TA unit, lot of firepower in small package.

5 Q: very useful indeed. Gives you more flexibility and more options.

Add all the above together and you get:

===HQ===
Shas'el @97pts: PR, MP, TA, MT.
Shas'el @97pts: PR, MP, TA, MT.

===ELITES===
2 XV8 @162pts: PR, MP, MT. TmLd w/ 2 SDs, BSF.
2 XV8 @159pts: PR, MP, MT. TmLd w/ 2 SDs.
4 XV15 @160pts: TA.

===TROOPS===
6 FWs @60pts:-.
10 Kroot @70pts:-.
10 Kroot @70pts:-.
10 Kroot @70pts:-.

===HEAVY SUPPORT===
Hammerhead @185pts: Railgun, SMS, MT, TL, DL, DP.
Hammerhead @185pts: Railgun, SMS, MT, TL, DL, DP.
Hammerhead @185pts: Railgun, SMS, MT, TL, DL, DP.

1500pts

Hmm I may as well jump in and throw out a few questions.

1.Can heavy stealth suit lists be competive, or exactly how competive really are they if you fill your elite slots with them?

2.How wise is the 3 stealths+6 gun drones unit on the board?I have been testing it out and those flying bases on the drones are cause many a groan when it comes to acutally using the unit.

Posted By Sith Spawn on 08/24/2006 1:09 PM
Hmm I may as well jump in and throw out a few questions.

1.Can heavy stealth suit lists be competive, or exactly how competive really are they if you fill your elite slots with them?

2.How wise is the 3 stealths+6 gun drones unit on the board?I have been testing it out and those flying bases on the drones are cause many a groan when it comes to acutally using the unit.

1. Yes they can be competitive, but fireknives with shield drones have an edge over stealths in that, with enough terrain for them, they do more damage to the targets you're more likely to see in tournaments.

2. 3 stealths and 6 gun drones is a great unit, for sure. It's just that it requires more terrain, thus it's not doing its job, which is to take the pressure off the terrain.

This list looks pretty good. I like the bsf on the 4th stealth, it means if I lose a stealth I don't lose an equal percentage of firepower.

Shas'el - plasma, missile, array, hwmulti 97
Shas'el - plasma, missile, array, hwmulti 97

2 Crisis 169
- team leader, plasma, missile, array, hwmulti, 2 shield drones
- plasma, missile, multi

2 Crisis 169
- team leader, plasma, missile, array, hwmulti, 2 shield drones
- plasma, missile, multi

4 Stealths - 3 targetting arrays, bsf 153

6 Fire Warriors 60
10 Kroot 70
10 Kroot 70
10 Kroot 70

Hammerhead - railgun, sms, decoys, multi, lock, pod 185
Hammerhead - railgun, sms, decoys, multi, lock 180
Hammerhead - railgun, sms, decoys, multi, lock 180

Models: 53
Army Total: 1500

Looks good, I like the idea with the bsf.

Question...is this template the only proven effective Tau list and if I use anything else then I could just kiss my victory points goodbye?

I run a 1500 mech Tau list, and it completely throws this template out the window.

No, it isn't the only effective list, if you're winning with your list then it is effective. However, this list and the Farsight list are probably the two most powerful ones.

As powerful as Tau get, anyway. Which means good luck taking out even the most slowed Necron player, drop pods, godzilla or Falcondar.

tau v eldar tends to draw quite often, both fast skimmery annoying, played cautiously
tau can win v pods at 1500, deepstrike and dispersal

not played a gojirra army yet, and tau always struggle against necrons

Really? I play a necron player often and I'm often at the winning end of the stick.

Then again, he's not the shiniest guass flayer in the army..

It's just a matter of targeting destroyers and getting the heck out of there when he teleports right behind my temporary fireline.

Those rules are fairly good guidelines to go by, but to answer your question, orchewer, I've found that there's a bit of wiggle room. Fireknife are the best overall suits, but Deathrain and Blinding Spear suits aren't bad choices either, and I like using a Centurion or Helios Ninja'O, mainly because it lets me fly in and tie up units which I can't commit shooting resources to just yet. Broadsides have their merits, and though (to borrow a quote from Spooky) mech FW teams aren't for the faint of heart, they can do well with careful placement and maneuvering, especially with a marker hit or two.

I've got two 1500 lists which I go back and forth with, depending on my preferences. One is almost identical to the one Mephet'ran posted, and the other is something like this:

Helios Nina'O
2 10-man FW teams in Fish
2 10-man Kroot squads
2 2-man Fireknife units w/ shield drones
Stealth x6
Ionhead
A pair of Broadsides w/ drones

I don't have the list or the codex handy at the moment, so I don't want to try and be too specific and make a mistake

As games get bigger, I usually toss in a pair of Tetras (for objective grabbing, along with the BS4 light), another Hammerhead, and more battlesuits (starting with a Fireknife-5 'El). My Troops more or less stay the same.

Davian, no Railhead at 1500 ? How do you deal with Speed Princes ? They're usually fast enough to dodge your Broadsides, and nothing else in your list can kill them.

it's a common misconception that speed princes are immune to plasma but it's still a misconception.

I never said they were immune, but trying to take down a T6,W4, 4 or 5+ inv save and if Khorne, FNP, with plasma isn't easy if you've only got 2 turns before he reaches your Crisis...
Even with assuming T6, W4, 5+ inv save you need 12 plasma hits on average, that means 24 shots at BS3... If its Khorne you're going to need 24 hits, 48 shots at BS3 (assuming 5+inv [no one takes the berserker glaive anymore], FNP).
Whereas one RG shot kills him outright.

Does everyone use 2+/5+ daemon princes with +1 wound/+1 toughness where you're from? I don't see a lot of those. They're missing at least 1 if not two of those aspects any time I see them.

If it's a Khorne prince, he will spend the game chasing an ionhead around and practicing his harmonica playing, of that much you can be sure.

If it's a 3+ prince, it's dead before it moves. If it's a 2+ prince with T5, it's punked by stealth suits. If it's a 2+ prince with T6, it requires a lot of plasma.

if the broadsides have ASS, the Prince is screwed

The only daemon prince I face always has d.rune .

Well, that's part of the reason I don't use that list 100% of the time ;P . Even still, like Longshot, I don't come across those kind of Princes all that often, so it's not too big a deal. I do see a lot of Flyrants, though, and they can pose similar problems.

If the Khorne Prince has D Speed then he won't. Models with Speed are not subject to frenzy.

I don't see a reason not to take that kind of prince, its not like he's very expensive.
Lord @153pts: Mark of Nurgle, Great Weapon, Aura, Essence, Speed, Stature, Armour. And you still have another 20pts of gifts to use if you want, as well as Veteran Skills.

Khorne--
"Must charge if there are any enemy units in range at the start of the assault phase (even vehicles, etc)"

With your movement of 6+1d6, you're going to have a pretty hard time avoiding charging a hammerhead or devilfish when your opponent wants you to. They simply take up too much space for you to avoid being within 12" of one if you ever want to charge.

You pretty much have to run your prince away from hammerheads/devilfish, or risk charging one and being left out in the open.

For non-Khorne, yeah. T6 things with 2+ saves are bad for Tau

Broadsides with ASS are pretty nice against 2+/5+ anything, if only because you get multiple wounds from railguns. I usually take 2 XV88 with ASS; one with PR, one with SMS.

By the way, anyone have a reference for these suit nicknames? As this is my second post on Dakka, I don't know what a Fireknife is (though I'm assuming a XV8 with PR/MP) or for that matter any of the other nicknames you've assigned.