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Made in us
Horrific Horror






http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=294

I understand that they use glazing to make the models look like this. A bit of research turned up basically to base the model black, then a heavy drybrush of white, and then ink the model. Is this how these were done, or is there some other way?

Does anyone have a link to a glazing guide that will set me on the right path? I honestly think that these models look cool as hell. Just looking for tips on how to replicate this effect ><


If that upsets your fluff stomach, buy a case of "it's just a game"-bizmo and get over it.
-Mahu

Men are like steel. When they lose their temper, they lose their worth.
-Chuck Norris  
   
Made in us
Horrific Horror






93 view (2 of which were mine) and nobody has any comments about either these tyranids or glazing in general? Just looking for some guidance here--I love modeling minis, but the painting I find tedious and difficult.

If that upsets your fluff stomach, buy a case of "it's just a game"-bizmo and get over it.
-Mahu

Men are like steel. When they lose their temper, they lose their worth.
-Chuck Norris  
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot






um....don't know what to say
they all look basecoated and dipped
they look consistent...

http://www.dysartes.com/model/painting/Dipping1.php

personally, I don't like the style, but that's just me
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





While they do looked dipped, and they do look consistent and good I find the method lacking, dont' get me wrong, it works but I would rather dip/glaze my own rather than pay someone else to do it.

If I were to use a retail painter I would be pissed if they dipped/glazed the models I am expecting to actually have 'painted'.

But it's a technique that works and is 'speedy' enough to warrant using it in a mass production situation. Though I must admit, Blue table's 'level' system should not have every level using the dip/glaze. But again, that's not me, I paint with a lot more care and effort. Of course I probably take 300 times as much time though.

Can you D.I.G. it? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I thought they were dipped at first two. It looks like a black woodstain over white and grey. Not bad, better than some people could manage freehand, but not what I'd want for commission work and not something that works well on every type of model'. According to the bluetable site, though, they glaze:

This is NOT the same as "dipping" (which uses floor wax over the whole model). Glazes rely on high quality paint and inks to apply color. Your models will be less likely to wear or chip.


In another post on these forums, they go on to explain their technique. To quote his explanation:

What is Glazing?



Many years ago I happened across a formula that would allow for the uniform application of paint so that it would shade as it dried. This would achieve an effect smoother than traditional layering or blending in a few coats.



A glaze is a mix of a clear base and colored paints and inks. Thus it is transluscent. Typically, a base layer called a Blackscale is put on that makes the figure look like a black and white photograph.



Glazing is superior to inks or washes because it provides clearer definition between dark and light areas. Inks tend to stain in a uniform tone, and often mottle larger areas.



Glazing is a secret technique. It gives an advantage in the industry of miniatures painting. Painters who come to work for Blue Table Painting sign an ironclad non-disclosure agreement. After that they are shown the secrets of formulating and applying glazes. It takes about six months of full time work to really learn how to use the technique to its full extent. There are about twenty basic glaze formulas. Each can be modified to suit a particular need or produce a certain effect.



Glazing is not dipping. Dipping uses floor wax which is said to degrade pigments. The Dip varnish/wax is applied to the whole model in a single coat. Glazes are applied selectively and in successive layers, not unlike any traditional painting technique.



Glazing reduces the painting time of a figure by about a third.



Glazes are durable. They withstand chipping and handling better than regular paint. They are friendly to the paints they are mixed with.



It requires skill and know-how to mix and apply glazes properly. Using glazes requires timing, subsequent layers have to be put on before the previous layer is completely dry. They can also be used in what we call where the surface tension of two areas of glaze are used to push the pigments where they need to go.



Glazes are best when used in conjunction with traditional methods. It is rare to have a model completely glazed. Glazes do especially well on organic areas of a model such as skin or cloth. Glazing is just another way to achieve the same effect of traditional painting methods: dark areas in the recesses and light areas on the high parts.



Shawn G.


I'm not sure this looks like the results of a "secret technique" that requires an "iron-clad agreement", but they certainly make an effort to distinguish what they do from "dipping". I once dipped a tyranid army myself, although I used a brush and mineral spirits to thin and apply the woodstain (not floorwax, as the quotes imply) and while it looked passable, I ended up getting rid of it. Sold for enough to pay for a bigger bug army, though.

Went digging through my old posts, and guess what? I've been hating on mat ward since before it was cool

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/244212.page 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Your models will be less likely to wear or chip.

Which seems to me to mean they still use a varnish like what is used in dipping, only thinned, brushed on and with added pigments (all of which have been tried and posted on the net).

I like the results but it still looks "dipped" even if it's a bit better of a result then actually dipping them.

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I like the results but it still looks "dipped" even if it's a bit better of a result then actually dipping them


Yea it seems to be a much more difficult andtime consuming way to 'dip'. You get the same look... but without actually dipping. Hmmmm maybe just dip them and be done with it.

Either way I wouldn't pay to have someone 'dip' or 'mock dip' an army.

Can you D.I.G. it? 
   
Made in us
Master of the Hunt





Angmar

Posted By DaIronGob on 09/13/2006 7:21 AM
Either way I wouldn't pay to have someone paint an army.



Fixed your post. :p

 

Nothing against BTP and other painting services.

I understand why, I just don't.....understand why. Understand?


"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the seed of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Well some people just don't want to paint... just play.

Others, don't want to learn how to paint and have too much money!

Can you D.I.G. it? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Well dipped or not, those Tyranids look nice! I think the whole point of their "glazing" thing seems to be durability though, they constantly say it won't chip as easily.


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





St. Louis, MO

Wow.

Where to start?

Everyone here has hit on some really good points. I'd have chimed in earlier but I just happened across this thread.

Let me start by saying that there are HUGE differences in glazing and dipping in, both, technique AND appearance. I will do my best to compare them for you.

I won't bother to go into detail about our methods, as Dumbucket posted everything I'd have said and more on the subject, straight from our site. Thanks for saving me the time! <G>

Regarding "secret techniques" and "Iron-clad agreements":

The wording on the former is a bit misleading. The techniques itself is no secret. In it's rawest form, it is paint covered by glaze. Anyone can do it. Where the "secret" truly comes in is the recipe for the glaze. If you ask a dozen painters who use glazes that they created independently, you will probably come up with a dozen different glaze recipes. At BTP, our recipe is versatile in that we can create numerous glaze colors, as opposed to many painters who can create but a few (if even more than one or 2).

That is where the agreement comes in. There are certain nondisclosure clauses and whatnot that need to be worked out.

Technique Details:

For anyone who has actually seen a dipped mini next to a properly glazed mini, you know that the techniques look nothing alike. Glazed minis are far more subtle and detailed than dipped minis. A glaze enhances and blends colors, where a dip simply fills in the recesses and darkens the colors. In order to glaze WELL, there is a LOT of care and effort that needs to be put into them. If your painter is a "slap and dash" painter who glazes (or not), your minis will look "slap and dash." BTP minis are, most certainly, NOT "slap and dash."

The technique behind BTU's glazing is not nearly so simple as one posting suggested, "a black woodstain over white and grey," or the original post that asked, "base the model black, then a heavy drybrush of white, and then ink the model. Is this how these were done...?"

What I can tell you, which is quite a bit, is, unfortunately, lacking certain specifics (like the glaze recipe) and is far too complex to be handled here in its' entirety. I can give you the "Twenty-five Cent Tour," however... and I won't even charge you for it. 

Here are the steps that BTP takes when painting a mini. Keep in mind that there is much more complexity involved, depending on how many glazes are used on each color or area, what model is being painted, etc., and I am leaving a lot of small and minor details out for brevity. I can give you an idea at each step of the multitude of variances that are possible, but You'd kind of "have to be there" to get the idea.

Okay...

Step one is a primer base coat. Black is very popular for it's "shading" possibilities, as it is with many (most?) other painters, but it is NOT the only color that you can prime with.

Two follows with your base color in each area of the mini (armor, flesh, hair, etc.).

Step 3 will be greatly condensed... This is the step where you shade and highlight the mini. Depending on the complexity of the mini and level of painting, these can vary from one "layer" of each to multiples... This is all still paint.

Of course the next step is, sequentially, number 4... This is the step with the MOST complexity. Each area of a model gets one or more "layers" of glazing. A layer of glazing could be just that... layered... (paint a glaze on in one layer then, when it dries, paint on a different color glaze to compliment/change it), or 2 or more glaze colors painted on at the same time to lie NEXT to each other (mixing only where they meet). This causes the colors painted on to compliment each other even better. It is not the SAME, but is not too dissimilar to how inks are used by some painters... just more complex and advanced.

Finally, we get to your clear coat. Some people use a gloss, some use a flat, some even use a satin finish. Blue Table uses a flat clear coat and is completing its' conversion to, strictly, Testors Flat clear coat.

If you're looking for recipes for glazing, you'd be amazed what a Google search will turn up. Try Googling "painting glazing 'glaze recipe' miniatures." Of course, you want to remove the quotation marks and period, then turn those 'hash marks' into actual quotes for the best results. You're on your way.

Another alternative for learning how to paint that way... BTP *IS* currently looking to hire a new Full Time painter... Relocation to Utah is a necessity, or course, but we WILL train you in this advanced technique.

I hope the information I've provided has cleared up some questions and misconceptions. If you have any questions or comments you'd like addressed, please post them here. We're more than happy to "talk shop" with other miniature enthusiasts.

Thanks for your time!

 

Eric


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