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2006/09/08 05:02:34
Subject: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I think my local area is going to be trending toward 750 in warmachine, particularly after the cav comes out. So here's the rework of my tried and true Severius Assassination list. Remember, it's not actually built to kill casters. It's built to jump out ahead on VPs with some (often boosted) rocket attacks and then cream you with an uber counter assault/bombing as you try to close the distance. Severius Avatar, 2 redeemers, revenger (I really, really like the avatar's ability to "hook" beatstick casters coupled with 18 guys throwing bombs). Choir (a no brainer) 4 Vengers (These are the guys I'm the least sure of. I worry that people will find ways to shoot the snot out of them before the come to bear) 10 zealots+MB (Money) 10 zealots (Almost as much money) The piper (He makes Vengers NASTY. If they're on the bubble with range, he lets them have a 15" threat range, through rough terrain. If they aren't, he gives them all two lance attacks when they charge. And if he isn't helping them, he makes zealots crazy good) So if facing this, what would your normal or proposed 750 list do to deal with it?
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"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto. |
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2006/09/08 06:00:05
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Getting rid of the MB and choir leader would be the first priority. Probably pistol wraiths and/or arced spells.
Gaspy would have the better arsenal of spells to get rid of the zealots with breath of corruption. The normal skarlock and at DJ makes for a possible 6 BoCs in a single turn.
The vengers are the only things that I haven't seen in action yet and wouldn't be too sure about how to deal with them. Probably counter charging bane knights/thralls. I think that cygnar is the only army you really need to worry about "shooting the snot" out of them. Especially with the other threats.
Nice signature btw.
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All problems can be solved with proper use of a high powered rifle and a water tower |
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2006/09/08 06:02:15
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Alas I haven't moved beyond box set games but I have created a 750 list.
This is from memory, so please forgive me if I miss something.
Kreoss (Epic)
Redeemer x2
Repenter
Crusader
Full Zealots + MB
Full Delievers
Full Knights Extemplar x2
Senchel
Full choir
Piper
Basically my idea is similar to yours, have enough rockets to pelt the enemy, but have good assault units on the table, KE seem like a good choice with the "if you kill us we grow stronger" and their abiliy to threaten most things.
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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2006/09/08 07:39:34
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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Roll smoke, bottle you in your deployment zone, get LOS to your caster. Same way I deal with everything with my eCaine list.
That's just how eCaine rolls though. I don't have enough experience against Menoth to give you specifics. How do you typically deal with a rolling smoke wall - does eKreoss have spells to counter it?
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2006/09/08 07:44:24
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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Also enjoy 750; it's worlds better than 500. You've finally got room to take stuff you can't fit in 500 so you don't end up with somewhat of a one-trick pony list. And by eKreoss I meant sevvy. On your Vengers specifically: The reason I worry about Vengers is that most attacks that are going to power them up are also going to kill a Venger. So yeah your 3 remaining guys have burly stats, but you're down 25% of the unit. Ignoring magical Def & Armor buffs is pretty nice, but kind of situational. I'd probably chance my Stormguard with them; your Trample attacks aren't likely to hit (since they count as Charge attacks for the purposes of triggering my Set Defense).
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2006/09/09 03:49:46
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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Posted By Jeff on 09/08/2006 12:39 PM Roll smoke, bottle you in your deployment zone, get LOS to your caster. Same way I deal with everything with my eCaine list. That's just how eCaine rolls though. I don't have enough experience against Menoth to give you specifics. How do you typically deal with a rolling smoke wall - does eKreoss have spells to counter it? Not sure what else is in your army. Would the Avatar rush + gaze into your smoke, shoot Avatar in the back with two Ashes to Ashes be enough to screw with your plans? Or would that be too many eggs up front?
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2006/09/09 07:47:43
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Thinking that my mortars, Widows and Behemoth can thin out the zealots while my Man-O-Wars can delay/absorb your Venger charge. My IFPs advance to stall your jacks supported by the Greylords and Blizzards, while eVlad feats to add +3" to the charge of the MoWs at an opportune moment. Manhunters and Doom Reavers will force you to use the invulnerable power of the zealots early rather than when you hit my lines.
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2006/09/09 11:44:30
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hmmmm, havent thought that far out yet. Since its mercs:
Epic magnus, several jacks(2 renegades, mangler, talon and mule
throw in some trenchers or longguners, croe and the gang and the new sniper......
Although I would LOVE to do a Rhul contract with madhammer..... AD dwarves and bokur.......
need to play more.
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Hope more old fools come to their senses and start giving you their money instead of those Union Jack Blood suckers... |
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2006/09/10 09:08:49
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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Watch out for Hordes.
Krueger would be a nightmare for this army with multiple Woldwardens. You'd see like 3-4 Lightning Arcs per turn...
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2006/09/10 10:05:43
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Lieutenant General
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Posted By Achilles on 09/10/2006 2:08 PM Watch out for Hordes. Krueger would be a nightmare for this army with multiple Woldwardens. You'd see like 3-4 Lightning Arcs per turn... Hmm. That sounds like the army I'm contemplating. Krueger is due out this week.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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2006/09/10 13:32:07
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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I got him at FanXpo a couple weeks ago. He's a pig.
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2006/09/10 17:23:57
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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Pig?
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2006/09/11 02:27:28
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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pig = tough/good/borken/etc.
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2006/09/11 04:36:10
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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malfred: What's ashes to ashes do? as I said I"ve got very little experience against Menoth. Keep in mind I don't care if the Trenchers die; they're just there to hold you in as small an area as possible while eCaine manuevers. I'm not kidding when I say if he gets LOS to your caster it's the game - unless you're camping a ton of focus his feat turn will kill you.
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2006/09/11 05:01:27
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Posted By Jeff on 09/08/2006 12:39 PM Roll smoke, bottle you in your deployment zone, get LOS to your caster. Same way I deal with everything with my eCaine list. That's just how eCaine rolls though. I don't have enough experience against Menoth to give you specifics. How do you typically deal with a rolling smoke wall - does eKreoss have spells to counter it? Severius has no problem with trenchers. He just runs the revenger into the smoke and arcs ashes to ashes through the smoke. Lots of trenchers go bye bye.
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"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto. |
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2006/09/11 05:06:39
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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A2A basically does damage to a model then arc to d6 models within so far of the target. Kinda sick against infantry.
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All problems can be solved with proper use of a high powered rifle and a water tower |
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2006/09/11 05:07:55
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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From sevy he's attacking on a 9+2d6 and doing 11+2D6 damage, with a couple of spare focus to boost damage on a couple of guys.
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"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto. |
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2006/09/11 05:09:11
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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The only real issue I see is that the Avatar tends to get KD'd by chickenjacks and never do much. I'd drop him for a cheaper heavy and stick in a unit of deliverers. I understand he'll save you focus and can't be disrupted.... but he tends to be either chain attacked or become a slam target that ends up knocking down whatever's behind him. As he's only Def 10 you'll find lots of speedy little jacks just boost-slamming him. A denny army with multiple Nightwretches will just shoot the crap outta poor ol sevvy. Pistol wraiths will do the same.
Bloaties will knock big chunks outta your Zealots as well.
It's a cool list dude, but I dunno how well it'll do in 2.0.
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2006/09/11 06:35:37
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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Ashes to Ashes would certainly cook the trenchers. Not that I care though, the real reason they're there is to stall your other stuff deep on your side of the table. You've got some fast moving things, so that helps - but with eCaine my army just exists as a delivery system to get him in on your caster.
How do you usually protect Sevvy Ed?
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2006/09/11 08:43:45
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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I'd imagine he does it like everyone else... by keeping him 16" away from you. You'll have a hard time stalling those knights in 2.0. All he has to do is hide them in pendelum. I think the Reclaimer fits this list better Ed. All those bodies and resurrecting Knights. Hella cool.
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2006/09/11 09:01:41
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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It's 19" but point taken. You really can't stay away from eCaine though; while Gatecrasher is no flash it still lets him move pretty quickly. He'll get in on Sevvy if he really wants to. This isn't to say I'd beat ed btw - he'd cream me, I'm sure. This is just hashing out theory under the assumption the eCaine player is better than I am.
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2006/09/11 13:25:44
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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I really count on my Devout to jump in when I'm surprised by sudden, potentially devastating ranged attacks.
You really like the Redeemers, huh, Ed?
I'm not sold on the Cavalry yet, I'd rather play with the Paladins. Vilmon seems to have pretty good stick-aroundability.
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2006/09/11 16:59:11
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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Typical ashes to ashes usage for eliminating infantry problems is to shoot your warjack in the back. Severius with 8 FOC vs. DEF 10 will only miss on snake eyes. The hit will be POW 10 (1-2 dmg boxes at most on a heavy), then roll d6. The additional d6 targets that suffer POW 10 are within 5" of the original target. That's pretty nice coming off a heavy.
If you run the avatar into your lines, the trenchers should be out of formation, and with gaze up they will be unable to give or receive orders.
Of course you'll have retaliation all set up, but it's one way around the smoke.
Not sure how to handle Caine himself, though. Once the trenchers are dead, he should be out running and gunning with True Shot up trying to thunderclap all heavies with that wicked little chain attack.
The only other thing I can think of is that if rolling smoke is up, Severius's army is running up. Once the smoke is gone, try to deviate as many rockets around Caine as possible.
I don't know how to handle Caine, really. I killed him with Divine Might (no teleportation) and then with Feora fire. I know you mentioned epic Caine, but some of the same things still apply (movement and low armor).
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2006/09/12 00:06:50
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ecaine still needs LOS, correct? In which case it's very unlikely you're shooting sevy. He never needs to be in LOS of the enemy to work, and if you get within 16" and threaten him he takes all your focus for a turn. To threaten with caine you've got to risk him a whole lot more than I have to risk sevy.
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"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto. |
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2006/09/12 04:22:36
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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Yes, but his Flash (now GateCrasher) doesn't end his activation anymore, and he can make his special form of melee/ranged gunfighter attacks at you. Gives him a respectable range of 15" inches, with Gatecrasher ignoring terrain and whatnot to get at you. Once there, well Rat 9 with Overkill on his feat turn will turn Sevvy into paint pretty fast. Just bear in mind his movement has to come before the gatecrasher, as after that he can't move anymore. If you've got speedy little reach jacks just run up to engage him as often as possible, forcing him to go around you. If you force a freestrike on him and make him do a circuitous circle around your base, you'll cut down the threat range. Severius is still a big contender in 750.. you just need to keep aware of what all those Epic Casters are now able to do.
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2006/09/12 06:57:16
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Remind me what gatecrasher does. Then remind me if he can pull it off from further than 21" away, because if he can't, he's going to have to suffer sevy's feat and expose himself for a turn.
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"I've still got a job, so the rules must be good enough" - Design team motto. |
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2006/09/12 07:03:15
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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What's Sevvy's feat do?
Gatecrasher allows eCaine to teleport 8" from his current position. After teleporting he cannot move, and can only attack things in his melee range (eCaine uses his spellstorm pistols for melee attacks).
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2006/09/12 07:03:43
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Regular Dakkanaut
Bellevue, WA
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Also: Sounds like the range on Sevvy's feat outranges eCaine, so Sevvy can hit him with it first.
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2006/09/12 09:00:18
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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Infiltrating Moblot
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Once Caine's in range you can feat, Death Sentence him through a node and bottle rocket him to death. His Def is still a respectable 17... so I'd recommend slamming a zealot into him with a revenger and saving the DS focus (it costs more to DS w/ Boost then it does to slam a zealot w/ Boost). You can then arc 2 boosted immolates into him which should average 18 points of damage and adios Caine.
Locking him in position with Menoth's Gaze will help you pull this off, if you're still set on the Avatar. It won't protect him from Gatecrashing though, as it only effects him till the end of his MOVEMENT... after which he can gatecrash away (recent Amendment in the Rules section of the PP forums).
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2006/09/12 10:26:12
Subject: RE: Welcome to 750-ville!
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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Severius's feat causes you to not have any focus next turn nor can you cast spells from within his control area (in case you have some way of gainiing focus).
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