Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

"To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output."

Maybe not, but they sure die a lot faster.

"Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide"

Nope.

Y'vahra is honestly a bit weak.
He just has too little range to work with.
While he will kill just about anything, he isn't likely to survive the counterattack.

SGTPozy wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Oh please. Don't do that. You've got every right to claim that the Dreadknight is broken, but if he comes in and tries to claim the Riptide is better than the Dreadknight he has to go away? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he has to leave.

How much value does a Dreadknight provide to a Grey Knights army? How much value does a Riptide provide to a Tau army?

To the first part; it isn't because I disagree, I have participated in the discussion earlier in the thread and I told him to go away as I'm pretty sure that most of the Tau plates here cannot be bothered to do it again.

To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide
On the other hand, GK players never leave home without 2.
Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide

Didn't you just post that Razorbacks are underpriced in a "Is the razorback overpriced" thread?

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Oh please. Don't do that. You've got every right to claim that the Dreadknight is broken, but if he comes in and tries to claim the Riptide is better than the Dreadknight he has to go away? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he has to leave.

How much value does a Dreadknight provide to a Grey Knights army? How much value does a Riptide provide to a Tau army?

To the first part; it isn't because I disagree, I have participated in the discussion earlier in the thread and I told him to go away as I'm pretty sure that most of the Tau plates here cannot be bothered to do it again.

To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide
On the other hand, GK players never leave home without 2.
Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide

Didn't you just post that Razorbacks are underpriced in a "Is the razorback overpriced" thread?

Yeah, he did. Which kinda shoots credibility, in my view. I sometimes have sometimes have strange perspectives, but this?

Martel732 wrote:
"To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output."

Maybe not, but they sure die a lot faster.

"Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide"

Nope.

The Dreadknight far outclasses everything else in the codex as it shoots the best, moves the best, assaults the best and is the most survivable.
The Riptide doesn't shoot the best, doesn't have the best movement (Shadowsun and her squad does), doesn't do the best in the assault phase (Farsight does) but does have the best survivability.

Conclusion; Dreadknight is far more central to GKs then the Riptide is to Tau.

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

What do you mean? Yes I did as it is underpriced. I'm not denying that the Riptide is... So what's your point?

SGTPozy wrote:
The Dreadknight far outclasses everything else in the codex as it shoots the best, moves the best, assaults the best and is the most survivable.

False statement.

Conclusion; Dreadknight is far more central to GKs then the Riptide is to Tau.

Conclusion based on false statement means the conclusion cannot be correct. Try again.

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Oh please. Don't do that. You've got every right to claim that the Dreadknight is broken, but if he comes in and tries to claim the Riptide is better than the Dreadknight he has to go away? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he has to leave.

How much value does a Dreadknight provide to a Grey Knights army? How much value does a Riptide provide to a Tau army?

To the first part; it isn't because I disagree, I have participated in the discussion earlier in the thread and I told him to go away as I'm pretty sure that most of the Tau plates here cannot be bothered to do it again.

To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide
On the other hand, GK players never leave home without 2.
Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide

Didn't you just post that Razorbacks are underpriced in a "Is the razorback overpriced" thread?

Yeah, he did. Which kinda shoots credibility, in my view. I sometimes have sometimes have strange perspectives, but this?

I really don't want to sound mean but if you think razors are under-priced and riptides are fine these definitely something wrong there...

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Oh please. Don't do that. You've got every right to claim that the Dreadknight is broken, but if he comes in and tries to claim the Riptide is better than the Dreadknight he has to go away? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he has to leave.

How much value does a Dreadknight provide to a Grey Knights army? How much value does a Riptide provide to a Tau army?

To the first part; it isn't because I disagree, I have participated in the discussion earlier in the thread and I told him to go away as I'm pretty sure that most of the Tau plates here cannot be bothered to do it again.

To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide
On the other hand, GK players never leave home without 2.
Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide

Didn't you just post that Razorbacks are underpriced in a "Is the razorback overpriced" thread?

Yeah, he did. Which kinda shoots credibility, in my view. I sometimes have sometimes have strange perspectives, but this?

I really don't want to sound mean but if you think razors are under-priced and riptides are fine these definitely something wrong there...

I DO NOT think that Riptides are fine. I think that they should be nerfed alongside Dreadknights and Wraitknights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The Dreadknight far outclasses everything else in the codex as it shoots the best, moves the best, assaults the best and is the most survivable.

False statement.

Conclusion; Dreadknight is far more central to GKs then the Riptide is to Tau.

Conclusion based on false statement means the conclusion cannot be correct. Try again.

So because you disagree then I am wrong? Okay...

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.

And again, different codexes are different. The Dreadknights isn't overpowered, it's just the best/only option in that slot. Same with the Wraithknight.
When you take everything into account, the Riptide is stronger than it should be at its point level.

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Oh please. Don't do that. You've got every right to claim that the Dreadknight is broken, but if he comes in and tries to claim the Riptide is better than the Dreadknight he has to go away? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he has to leave.

How much value does a Dreadknight provide to a Grey Knights army? How much value does a Riptide provide to a Tau army?

To the first part; it isn't because I disagree, I have participated in the discussion earlier in the thread and I told him to go away as I'm pretty sure that most of the Tau plates here cannot be bothered to do it again.

To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide
On the other hand, GK players never leave home without 2.
Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide

Didn't you just post that Razorbacks are underpriced in a "Is the razorback overpriced" thread?

Yeah, he did. Which kinda shoots credibility, in my view. I sometimes have sometimes have strange perspectives, but this?

I really don't want to sound mean but if you think razors are under-priced and riptides are fine these definitely something wrong there...

I DO NOT think that Riptides are fine. I think that they should be nerfed alongside Dreadknights and Wraitknights.

Nah dude. Dreadknights give everyone I play a hard time. They don't need to be stronger. Dreadknights don't cause the rage that riptides do though because they die when you shoot them a lot and provide for a fun game with some crucial rolls. The game against a tau player - the riptide is 60" out and can't be touched even if it was in range. It could just shoot 3 str 7 ap2 shots into your terminators but here comes the crucial roll! oh I rolled a 3 on a d6...that means your whole term squad is annihilated by an effective 60 inch vindicator shot...wow that was fun and fair at the same time. So glad your brought that riptide.

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The Dreadknight far outclasses everything else in the codex as it shoots the best, moves the best, assaults the best and is the most survivable.

False statement.

Conclusion; Dreadknight is far more central to GKs then the Riptide is to Tau.

Conclusion based on false statement means the conclusion cannot be correct. Try again.

So because you disagree then I am wrong? Okay...

It's not because I disagree - it's because that statement is factually incorrect.
The Dreadknight does not, quote, "far outclass everything else in the codex" at all.
Shooting the best is debatable.
Moving the best is incorrect - there are units that move exactly the same as it does.
Assaulting the best is incorrect.
Most survivable is debatable.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Y'vahra is honestly a bit weak.
He just has too little range to work with.
While he will kill just about anything, he isn't likely to survive the counterattack.

#

A punisher Pask did rend him to death T1 in one of my games, the 4+ save within 12 inches was helpful though.

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.

And again, different codexes are different. The Dreadknights isn't overpowered, it's just the best/only option in that slot. Same with the Wraithknight.
When you take everything into account, the Riptide is stronger than it should be at its point level.

So why complain if "different codexes are different"? The reason why the Riptide is so good is because of that very reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:

Oh please. Don't do that. You've got every right to claim that the Dreadknight is broken, but if he comes in and tries to claim the Riptide is better than the Dreadknight he has to go away? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean he has to leave.

How much value does a Dreadknight provide to a Grey Knights army? How much value does a Riptide provide to a Tau army?

To the first part; it isn't because I disagree, I have participated in the discussion earlier in the thread and I told him to go away as I'm pretty sure that most of the Tau plates here cannot be bothered to do it again.

To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide
On the other hand, GK players never leave home without 2.
Therefore, Dreadknights have far more value than the Riptide

Didn't you just post that Razorbacks are underpriced in a "Is the razorback overpriced" thread?

Yeah, he did. Which kinda shoots credibility, in my view. I sometimes have sometimes have strange perspectives, but this?

I really don't want to sound mean but if you think razors are under-priced and riptides are fine these definitely something wrong there...

I DO NOT think that Riptides are fine. I think that they should be nerfed alongside Dreadknights and Wraitknights.

Nah dude. Dreadknights give everyone I play a hard time. They don't need to be stronger. Dreadknights don't cause the rage that riptides do though because they die when you shoot them a lot and provide for a fun game with some crucial rolls. The game against a tau player - the riptide is 60" out and can't be touched even if it was in range. It could just shoot 3 str 7 ap2 shots into your terminators but here comes the crucial roll! oh I rolled a 3 on a d6...that means your whole term squad is annihilated by an effective 60 inch vindicator shot...wow that was fun and fair at the same time. So glad your brought that riptide.

How can 3 shots wipe out a terminator squad? They are at least 5 man squads... So you're point is wrong.

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.

And again, different codexes are different. The Dreadknights isn't overpowered, it's just the best/only option in that slot. Same with the Wraithknight.
When you take everything into account, the Riptide is stronger than it should be at its point level.

So why complain if "different codexes are different"? The reason why the Riptide is so good is because of that very reason.

It's so good IN ITS OWN CODEX. You bring up the DK and WK as if every oval base Knight needs a nerf because reasons.
You've failed to support your statements, however.

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
The Dreadknight far outclasses everything else in the codex as it shoots the best, moves the best, assaults the best and is the most survivable.

False statement.

Conclusion; Dreadknight is far more central to GKs then the Riptide is to Tau.

Conclusion based on false statement means the conclusion cannot be correct. Try again.

So because you disagree then I am wrong? Okay...

It's not because I disagree - it's because that statement is factually incorrect.
The Dreadknight does not, quote, "far outclass everything else in the codex" at all.
Shooting the best is debatable.
Moving the best is incorrect - there are units that move exactly the same as it does.
Assaulting the best is incorrect.
Most survivable is debatable.

What shoots better?
I'll give you the movement one as forgot about Interceptors, What assaults better than 5 Str10 insta-death attacks on a character model? Don't say Draigo as he's a LoW.
What is more survivable?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
To the second part; Riptides are good, but crisis suits aren't massively far behind in damage output. Tau can and do work well without the Riptide

I'll go ahead and call bs on this. I've literally never seen a Tau player since the new codex without at least one Riptide. Usually at least 2 - the only single I can remember is because he was a high school student and could only afford one at the time.

And remember - it's not just about damage output or you wouldn't have been offended by the suggestion to drop T to 5. It's about how much damage output there is, how much gets reduced per wound, and the point cost effectiveness thereof.
Taking any one of those three out of context - sure, Tau can do that without the Riptide. But all 3 together?

I wasn't offended by that suggestion, I was offended how only 1 of the 3 big 'knight' MCs is viewed to need that nerf. I'd be perfectly happy if the Dreadknight and Wraithknight were also merged in their T values.

And again, different codexes are different. The Dreadknights isn't overpowered, it's just the best/only option in that slot. Same with the Wraithknight.
When you take everything into account, the Riptide is stronger than it should be at its point level.

So why complain if "different codexes are different"? The reason why the Riptide is so good is because of that very reason.

It's so good IN ITS OWN CODEX. You bring up the DK and WK as if every oval base Knight needs a nerf because reasons.
You've failed to support your statements, however.

Read the previous pages where there have been reasons given about how the others are awesome. I've already said that plasma suits with a buffmander beat the Riptide's damage output.

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:


How can 3 shots wipe out a terminator squad? They are at least 5 man squads... So you're point is wrong.

Was referring to the Str 8 ap2 large blast it can fire.

You said 3 Str 7 shots though... You cannot turn those shots into large blasts, you have yo choose which mode you will fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also get their 5++ or cover save and alsowhy would you had the squad so tightly packed together? Seems like an amateur mistake to me.

SGTPozy wrote:
What shoots better?

Paladins with Psycannons.

I'll give you the movement one as forgot about Interceptors, What assaults better than 5 Str10 insta-death attacks on a character model? Don't say Draigo as he's a LoW.

Well, all GK attacks are ID since they're all Force weapons.
STR10 is often irrelevant - it really just means it's 2+ to wound. Paladins with Hammerhand are Str 6 iirc, so 2+ to wound pretty much everything.
Or hammers that are S9 with Hammerhand iirc.

What is more survivable?

Because of the fact the DK normally has to shunt turn one to be effective (with the Torrent flamer) pretty much anything else in the codex.

Read the previous pages where there have been reasons given about how the others are awesome. I've already said that plasma suits with a buffmander beat the Riptide's damage output.

Yes, the others are awesome. Did I disagree with that?
And sure, but they have to get significantly close than the Riptide, which (along with significantly lower toughness and a worse armor save) makes them far less survivable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:
You said 3 Str 7 shots though... You cannot turn those shots into large blasts, you have yo choose which mode you will fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also get their 5++ or cover save and alsowhy would you had the squad so tightly packed together? Seems like an amateur mistake to me.

He did say "Deep Strike". Yeah, following the rules is amateur.

SGTPozy wrote:
You said 3 Str 7 shots though... You cannot turn those shots into large blasts, you have yo choose which mode you will fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also get their 5++ or cover save and alsowhy would you had the squad so tightly packed together? Seems like an amateur mistake to me.

Nah I Said you roll a 3+ to get the large blast. I know how it works...5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

 Xenomancers wrote:

.5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

No it doesnt.

Who uses Paladins? Therefore irrelevant.

Yes, other stuff is equal against normal stuff but what about against a Riptide in combat? Str10 really helps there. Same as with against vehicles; auto pen.

So you're ignoring T6's benefits on the Dreadknight but it benefits he Riptide greatly? Wow, just wow.

No you didn't, just like I didn't disagree that the Riptide is powerful. The Dreadknight has the same toughness and save...

Where did he say deep strike?

SGTPozy wrote:
You said 3 Str 7 shots though... You cannot turn those shots into large blasts, you have yo choose which mode you will fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also get their 5++ or cover save and alsowhy would you had the squad so tightly packed together? Seems like an amateur mistake to me.

2" unit coherency, large blast template, so it isnt bunching up. Also, 5++ ain't that great. Oh, and markerlights ignore cover, so there's that. You're grasping at straws now.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

.5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

No it doesnt.

Thank you good sir!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
You said 3 Str 7 shots though... You cannot turn those shots into large blasts, you have yo choose which mode you will fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also get their 5++ or cover save and alsowhy would you had the squad so tightly packed together? Seems like an amateur mistake to me.

2" unit coherency, large blast template, so it isnt bunching up. Also, 5++ ain't that great. Oh, and markerlights ignore cover, so there's that. You're grasping at straws now.

Not really, a large blast will give 2-3 hits, meaning 1 or 2 casualties. Yes, markerlights can ignore cover but YOU are gasping at straws by bringing them into the discussion. I will now do likewise; what if they have storm shields and a sanctuc psyker gave them +1 to their invulnerable save? Then none will die.

SGTPozy wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

.5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

No it doesnt.

Thank you good sir!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
You said 3 Str 7 shots though... You cannot turn those shots into large blasts, you have yo choose which mode you will fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They also get their 5++ or cover save and alsowhy would you had the squad so tightly packed together? Seems like an amateur mistake to me.

2" unit coherency, large blast template, so it isnt bunching up. Also, 5++ ain't that great. Oh, and markerlights ignore cover, so there's that. You're grasping at straws now.

Not really, a large blast will give 2-3 hits, meaning 1 or 2 casualties. Yes, markerlights can ignore cover but YOU are gasping at straws by bringing them into the discussion. I will now do likewise; what if they have storm shields and a sanctuc psyker gave them +1 to their invulnerable save? Then none will die.

Nope, they can still roll 1s and die. Also, how is bringing markerlights into the discussion irrelevant? Most Tau have armies have tons of markerlights and 2+ Riptides. So that 2-3 hits turns into the whole squad.

It's irrelevant as we are not bringing Imperial shenanigans into account. They can have prescience on and forewarning/foreboding (the ignores cover one), same as we were assuming that they were not THSS termites when the likelihood would be that they were.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

.5 inch template hits 4-5 models spaced out 2 inches

No it doesnt.

I was giving you an average based on my experience in 40k. In a real game scenerio units have to clump up for all kinds of reasons a lot of them are out of your control. If units never bunched up there would be almost no reason to ever use a large blast template.

As a side-note, is anyone else than GK fieldimg Termies without TH/SS and expects them to do something else than diehorribly?

SGTPozy wrote:
It's irrelevant as we are not bringing Imperial shenanigans into account. They can have prescience on and forewarning/foreboding (the ignores cover one), same as we were assuming that they were not THSS termites when the likelihood would be that they were.

Have to roll on spell table- at best a 50% chance to get the spell you want most the time...have to cast the spell which can hurt you...you can cancel it...seems pretty fair to me.