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Ok, I should clarify this.  I know how to use Tactical Squads in Pod Armies, and in shooty armies where all they do is sit back with a few bullet catchers and shoot a lascannon all game, but I'm trying to come up with an alternate use for them in a non-pod list that doesn't involve them being an underpriced heavy weapons platform.  This is for semi-competitive games with friends, so I'd like to stay away from just using them as tiny Las/Plas squads.

One idea I had was just equipping 10 Marines with Bolters, A Flamer, and a PF Sarge to hoof it out, leaving the anti-tank work to Devastator Squads (6 man, 2 Lascannons or 3 ML) and Speeders. 

Basically I wanted to do something with them that was a bit more interesting than sitting at the edge of a firing lane and unloading AP2 death.  Is this feasible at all or will it just devolve into me being frustrated as other players take more effective units/approaches and render the idea moot?

the latter.

Tac squads are either small and shooty, or in pods, in a competitive vanilla marine army.

Not so much, I've been having good luck with giving them a meltagun/flamer and a vet with a powerfist in a razorback killing gak.

Not so much, I've been having good luck with giving them a meltagun/flamer and a vet with a powerfist in a razorback killing gak.

I could see an apothecary list working with a sit and shoot army. Put a bunch of terminators next to several las/plas tac squads with apothecaries (6-8 guys probably).

You're going to be frustrated, but it will be interesting to play for a while. I was in the same camp, and I was interested in truly tactical squads. I started making 8 man las/plas, vet w/pf, and ccw for the grunts. The idea was that they could shoot just as well as a las/plas, and they would have assault power if needed. I was trying to create an 8 wound stationary monstrous creature with a lascannon and plasma gun.

It didn't work. Against shooting armies, I got out shoot. If I tried to assault the shooting army, I wasn't mobile enough to coordinate attacks. If I got assaulted, it was by something that really wanted to be in assault, and my guys couldn't stand up to dedicated assault troops. The vet with the powerfist was essentially dreadnought protection, but any dreadnoughts I faced usually died to the lascannons.

If anything, after trying out this army for a full league, I might look into one 8 man vet squad surrounded by other typical las/plas squads. 60 points (vet w/pf and 2 guys) to protect four squads might be a good return. It also breaks up the 6 man squad monotony. On the other hand, it makes targetting really easy for your opponent.

i agree with what everyone has said.

the only other use i have seen for them, is a buddy of mine who runs salamanders. He runs two special weapons in each squad, vet sarge with power fist, puts them in a rhino and jams forward to jump out and double tap and then sarge does the work once they get charged.

it is a cool list and aesthetically it is pleasing, however, the rhinos are more expensive less effective than pods. Once pods became mainstream, my buddy painted a bunch up threw the exact same squds into pods and i have yet to see the rhinos back on the board.

You could use cleanse and purify and put them in a rhino. Use 2-3 of these squads and back them up with assault marines (screened by the rhinos) and a shooty core of troops (devs, las/plas, etc.).

Or you could walk some squads behind vindicators, predators or landraider.

Neither is as competative as drop pods or SAFH but it's an option.

Do I know you?

Same deal with me and my Salamanders. Too bad too because my rhinos were the best looking part of my army.

I have a buddy who runs his black templars behind three vindicators, it works fairly well actually, but still not as good as pods.



hahaha, maybe, and his were the best part of his army too, he went all out on the rhinos, custom flames and everything, it's a shame he doesn't play them anymore.

Actually Tac squads are very useful as a spearhead for your assault squads. Many people like to trumpet their assault squads as if they were the bees knees, but don't forget that regular marines are just as good when they are thrown down the field.

In this way the best thing to do is get a couple of large SM units with a flamer and a melta, sergeant with a PF and a rhino and smoke launchers. Two or three squads like that and you can get right into your opponents lines, open up with a flamer (which is really just a nasty bolter that ignores cover) and then melta any tanks that require your immediate attention.

ONce they have setup a beach-head run up with some assault squads.

Another thing not to forget is that once you pop smoke for a rhino, any vehicles behind it also count for popping smoke (shooting through the smoke of course) so they are quite a nice way to get your vindicators into position.

Quoting ATI:
"Another thing not to forget is that once you pop smoke for a rhino, any vehicles behind it also count for popping smoke (shooting through the smoke of course) so they are quite a nice way to get your vindicators into position."

Where the hell did you find that rule? Is that just some leap of logic or "common sense?"

Page # please.

Darrian

You kinda managed to get some Orks in your Space Marines there; smoke only counts for the vehicle using it.

Posted By Darrian13 on 09/17/2006 10:12 PM
Quoting ATI:
"Another thing not to forget is that once you pop smoke for a rhino, any vehicles behind it also count for popping smoke (shooting through the smoke of course) so they are quite a nice way to get your vindicators into position."

Where the hell did you find that rule? Is that just some leap of logic or "common sense?"

Page # please.

Darrian

 

Yar! This not be Warmachine! matey. Thar' be no "cloud effects".

Now, as punishment, get t' swabbin' the deck!

 

And the next time ye start thinkin' that fluff=rules, I'll be whistlin' for the cap'n's daughter.

You'll not like her kiss.

I agree with the bulk of the responses.  I've tried nearly every permutation of tactical squads to break up the monotony, and none have been overly effective.  In 2000 pt games I sometimes run a 10 man squad in a rhino with a fist and two flamers.  Very, very rarely it comes through big for me.

Even for countercharge, I've found that scouts work better.  take 8-10 of them, give them a ML and  fist, and let them either infiltrate, or sit back to counter charge.  Either way its' far cheaper then a similar Tac squad.   Of course, if the enemy has plenty of AP4, you're screwed.

When I?m podding, I use mostly big squads (because I like my Rapidfire bolter goodness).

When I field a non-pod army, I still like fielding two 10 man squads with heavy, special, and vet sgt with fists in Rhinos. The rest of my tac squads are little 5-6 man shooty units, but these two are reasonably effective at seizing objectives and assaulting (usually in conjunction with an assault squad and/or chaplain) when I need them to, and can sit and shoot while providing their own counterassault ability if the situation calls for it. They are obviously not as efficient at pure stand and shoot duties, but I find that in most games I play there is too much terrain to get a lot of mileage out of a bunch of static shooty units. It helps to be able to move a good number of marines around, and I have enough cover to make a couple of Rhinos useful. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Well the sad thing is that most posts just confirm what I just don't like admitting. I've also tried just about everything from 8 Man Las/Plas/PF squads to the full on 2 Flamer/PF Rhino squad and they just don't work out if you're playing against a list that's built competitively. You really can't get around the 100-115 Point Las/Plas platform, it just enables so much else with the army. Looks like I'm going to have to reserve my nice 10 Man squads for when I use pods or when I'm playing certain friends who moan when effective unit combos are used.

Oh sorry, that might be a carry over effect, I thought that if you had smoke in front of your tank, and you had another rhino directly behind it, you could get the same affects, if the second vehicle was being shot at from the same direction. if not, well....Oh well, Nothing really lost anyways. I heard this in a tournament and I just figured, well that sorta makes sense.  But you are right, thats NOT IN THE RULES>\.

By the way, the deck has been swabbed.


Aside from that, Rhino rushs (per se) are great. However, I have to say I favor scout squads more than tactical squads for forward deployment.

Personally I play 6 man lascannon squads, no plasma. I have LOADS of heavy weapons though and I play DA which is more geared towards shooty. So....whatever floats your boat. I always figured this, if my heavy weapons have done their job, the opponent shouldn't get within 24 inches. Also, I figured that I can deploy back from the 12" line and still have LoS and have range.

I know this is going againist the grain but it is a unit I have found that I like quite a bit. On paper I don't think it looks that good but after a number of games with them I really like them. 10 marines with Trust your battle brother(over priced in my opinion), a missile launcher(we all know the arguments againist), a melta/plasma and a vet with a fist and a rhino(yeah, yeah rhinos suck). A few of these units can form the basis of a fairly shooty list that can hold its own vs assualts. Try it a few times you just might like it. I know I was very pleasently suprised by the missile launcher and rhino. And I'm not almost of the opinion that 3 pts isn't too much for TYBB.

If you are dead set on big squads and don't want pods or las/plas, I would suggest the following options:

1) cheapo marines. take 10 with 2 special weapons and run a 50-60 down field.

2)infiltrating. as above, more power fists.

3)just go for 2-4 las plas and 2 infiltrating vet las/plas and feel dirty but win.

infiltrating is well worth 3 points. swamping somewhere with 50+ marines is nasty.

J

That does work, and it is much cheaper than a coffin with tracked movement. Plus if it gets destroyed you could get entangled, which is a risk some aren't willing to run.

an 8-man with Cleanse and Purify:

2 Plasma or 2 Meltaguns and a PF. Drop Pod in, doubletap, charge with your fist. I've seen this done - its pretty nice.

CK

Here's a thought (probly get holes poked in it real quick):
What if you took 3-4 max sized black templar crusader squads with the invulnerable save vow and just walked them up the field? That's a lot of power armor to deal with.
cheers

I guess the only problem with such a unit would be that a 20-man is 260 points, without upgrades. Slap on a PF and a meltagun and you've suddenly got yourself a 285 point unit, albeit one that can spank an opponent in H2H. 4 of them comes to 1140 points, making you hard pressed to find the points for a commander or EC.

Maybe 2-3 of them would suffice. Also, I found that having only 5 Neophytes or having 8 of each tends to help with points as well as usefulness. Having 20 models move as a single group is incredibly unwieldy, unfortunately.

CK

ok, my list runs 3x 5 man las/plas combined with 2X 10 man vet w/fist, melta, flamer infiltrate/ Furious charge. I havent had a chance to try it yet, are you saying it might actually work?

cause nothing else I have run does...

I hate khrone bezerkers...I hate alpha clense....the 1 army and 1 mission I have gone against the last 10 times I have played. Chosen RANDOMLY I might add from a large pool of players!!

I would change five man to 6 man (so that you ropponent needs to kill 3 not 2 models to get 1/2 VPs on your squads). Also how are you getting infiltrate and furious assault on regular squads?

He's using traits:

See, but don't be seen and no mercy, no respite I belive.

Posted By Tanarin on 10/17/2006 4:21 PM
He's using traits:

See, but don't be seen and no mercy, no respite I belive.

*TAPS NOSE*

Right on the money...dont know if its cost effective yet though.

What about those two special weapons? Isn't that Cleanse and Purify?

I think that's one too many.

CK

sorry you 're right, only the melta...