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Hi all,

I am preparing my ultramarines for a 2000 point RTT tournament here in Madrid. Up to now I have only played 750-1000 points battles, so increasing my list to 2000 point is something like a challenge to me. I will really appreciate any suggestion, but what I can change is very limited due to my laziness for painting. I will like to field more vehicles, but both my whirlwind and my second predator are still not painted.

(note: any point value may not be correct because I have not the codex in front of me... I will correct it tonight)

HQ:

- Libby with fear and fury (aprox 125-130 points)

- Command Squad for the Libby (6 marines), with apothecary, standard-bearer, pfist veteran sergeant, plasma gun, melta gun, 220 points

- Jump pack chappy with plaspistol 140 points

ELITE

- Termie squad (5 termies) with 2 assault cannons and 1 chain fist, 235 points

- Dreadnought with assault cannon, heavy flamer, DCCW, extra armour and smoke, 93 points

- Veteran squad (6 marines), pfist veteran sergeant, lightning blades marine, energy weapon marine and twin lass cannon Razorback transport with extra armour, storm bolter and smoke (188+108 points)

TROOPS

- Tactical squad, (6 marines) lass cannon and plasma gun, 120 points

- Tactical squad, (6 marines) same, 120 points

FAST

- Assault squad (8 jump-pack marines) with veteran sergeant, flamer and 1 plaspistol (211 points)

- Land Speeder Tornado, 80 points

HEAVY

- Predator Annihilator with heavy bolter sponsons, extra armour, storm bolter and smoke 148 points

- Devastator squad (7 marines) with 4 missile launchers, 165 points

That's all: 46 marines, with 3 vehicles and 1 dread; 4 lass cannons (two of then twin linked), 3 assault cannons, 3 heavy bolters, 3 plasma guns, 1 melta gun, something like 30 bolters of all types and 3 plas pistols

It's a little short of 2000 points, but I have yet to set a veteran skill for the veterans. Normally I will not field that unit, but I did not have enough tactical marines ready to exchange the veteran for a couple o lasplas squads

What do you think? How will this list fare against different armies? Is there enough dakka to face a mech tau while I wait for the reserves to deep strike and assault their suits? Will I survive a couple of hand to hand combat rounds with orks or nids?

Tank you all in advance for your feedback

 

 

I think those tac squads should only be 115 points.

Mauleed is correct. 115pts for 6man las/plas squads. That gives you 10 more points to use.

Capt K

Let's review all points values now that i have the codex with me

HQ:

- Libby with fear and fury and plas-pistol (144 points) (the plas pistol idea is to be able to kill something if he fails the psicic test to launch fear or fury)

- Command Squad for the Libby (6 marines), with apothecary, standard-bearer, pfist veteran sergeant, plasma gun, melta gun, 220 points

- Jump pack chappy with plaspistol 135 points (will join assault squad and deeep-strike)

ELITE

- Termie squad (5 termies) with 2 assault cannons and 1 chain fist, 245 points

- Dreadnought with assault cannon, heavy flamer, DCCW, extra armour and smoke, 93 points

- Veteran squad (6 marines), pfist veteran sergeant, lightning claws marine, power weapon marine and twin lass cannon Razorback transport with extra armour, storm bolter and smoke (183+108 points) They all get the furious assault veteran skill (sorry if that name is no exact, but I can't figure out the "asalto rabioso" translation)

TROOPS

- Tactical squad, (6 marines) lass cannon and plasma gun, 115 points

- Tactical squad, (6 marines) same, 115 points

FAST

- Assault squad (8 jump-pack marines) veteran sergeant with honours and power weapon, flamer and 1 plaspistol (211 points)

- Land Speeder Tornado, 80 points

HEAVY

- Predator Annihilator with heavy bolter sponsons, extra armour, storm bolter and smoke 148 points

- Devastator squad (7 marines) with 4 missile launchers, 185 points


So if everithing is rigth now it is 1982 points... 18 under 2000. I may drop the standard bearer a use its points to get an attack bike with melta canon to go tank hunting...

Any other idea to improve my chances....

Well someona has pointed to me thed the dead points pvalue was incorrect.. so here we are agein making a 2nd revision...


HQ:

- Libby with fear and fury and plas-pistol (144 points) (the plas pistol idea is to be able to kill something if he fails the psicic test to launch fear or fury)

- Command Squad for the Libby (6 marines), with apothecary, standard-bearer, pfist veteran sergeant, plasma gun, melta gun, 220 points

- Jump pack chappy with plaspistol 135 points (will join assault squad and deeep-strike)

ELITE

- Termie squad (5 termies) with 2 assault cannons , 240 points

- Dreadnought with assault cannon, heavy flamer, DCCW, extra armour and smoke, 123 points

- Veteran squad (6 marines), pfist veteran sergeant, lightning claws marine, power weapon marine and twin lass cannon Razorback transport with extra armour, storm bolter and smoke (183+108 points) They all get the furious assault veteran skill (sorry if that name is no exact, but I can't figure out the "asalto rabioso" translation)

TROOPS

- Tactical squad, (6 marines) lass cannon and plasma gun, 115 points

- Tactical squad, (6 marines) same, 115 points

FAST

- Assault squad (8 jump-pack marines) veteran sergeant with honours and power weapon, flamer and 1 plaspistol (211 points)

- Land Speeder Tornado, 80 points

HEAVY

- Predator Annihilator with heavy bolter sponsons, extra armour, storm bolter and smoke 148 points

- Devastator squad (6 marines) with 4 missile launchers, 170 points


So if everithing is rigth now it is 1992 points... 8 under 2000. I may drop the standard bearer a use its points to get an attack bike with melta canon to go tank hunting...

so... criticism welcome...

This army seems to be built around expensive units that are played as they appear on the boxes they come in.  That will lead you to having a fragile force that is somewhat incoherent and ineffective.  For instance:

Your command squad will look like the one on the front of the box, but it has no clearly defined roll.  Apothecaries work best in the enemy's shooting phase, and won't be of use if you plan on using the standard bearer or powerfist in the squad.  The plasma gun and melta gun mix is also confusing.  You can't use the plasma gun and then charge to benefit from the powerfist and standard in the unit.  Taking two melta guns or flamers and dropping the apothecary and you can dedicate this unit to assault and will get a better bang for your buck.

The veteran squad was clearly taken straight from the veteran box set, which results in an expensive and fragile unit.  Sure you have a ton of power weapons in the unit, but it is not large enough to survive multiple rounds of combat.  The fact that it is riding in the most expensive version of the Razorback does not compliment their close combat abilities at all.  If you plan on getting them into combat, you need to move as fast as possible, which means you aren't firing the Lascannon.  You would be better off taking a Rhino instead and adding a couple more Marines to the squad to soak up wounds.  Just so you know this squad is begging for a Railgun shot at the start of the game and will find itself walking across the board and accomplishing little.

WIth the spare points you have, you should purchase teleport homers so you can safely land your Terminators.  Also, for a non-Drop Podding Terminator Squad, the auspex is possibly the best 2 point wargear item you can find.  It will easily pay its points back against any infiltrating army.

Your troop choices are good, but you need more of them.  Right now you don't have enough bodies in the list to withstand any punishment.  If you want a respectable gunline, you need at least 4 las/plas squads.

The fast attack choices are good as well.  The Chaplain and Assault Squad combo works well, and when used properly, Tornados can deliver the final blow to a squad or claim a last minute objective.  The only thing I would change is to put another flamer in the Assault Squad instead of plasma.  You have a decent amount of AP 2 guns and power weapons, but your army has a severe lack of anti-horde weaponry.

Your heavy support choices could use a little help.  There aren't enough wounds in your missile launcher squad, and among your vehicles there is no redundancy, so your opponent can take one shot at a vehicle and shake it each turn and then ignore it while he targets your other expensive and fragile units.

The main problem I see is the lack of wounds in the list.  In 2000 points, 50 models in a non-Deathwing/Drop Podding Terminator list seems a little low.  It won't take much to reduce all of your units to non-scoring.

Side Note:  your Librarian can't use his plasma-pistol if he uses a power in that shooting phase, so be sure not to fire his pistol if you intend on using a power, and vice-versa.

First of all let me thank you for your extensive analysis of my battle force….

…now let me clarify some of the limitation I face when constructing this list….


- First this list started as a 750 points force. Chappy + 2 lasplas squads + assault squad + predator + tornado…it worked ok and I got a couple of victories (sisters and nids) and a draw (space wolves)

- Then I extended the list to 1000 points adding the libby and his command squad and getting rid of the Tornado, which didn’t do much in the first games. This list did work ok, getting a new victory (necrons) and another draw (due to time limitations, because with one more turn it would have been a second victory)

- Now to extend it to 2000 I am really limited to what I already have painted. So I add the termies, the tornado, the veterans and their razorback, the dready and the devastators

- The command squad role is to be a shootty, counterassault force. They will protect the librarian while he cast away fear or fury from my gun line…. Just in case any enemy gets to them the pfist sergeant and the libby will have to do the work counter charging… The melta gun in this squad is a pure defensive weapon, just in case a dread or tank came close the unit. The plasma gun adds the dakka power to the unit. The standard-bearer is first in my list of exchangeable models. This squad, without the standard-bearer has worked quite fine in my previous games both in counter-charging and shooting roles. Your idea of two flamers or two meltas will not fit the shooting role due to poor range.

- The veteran are there as a secondary assault force… I will swap the Razorback from lasers to heavy bolters (but I don’t have the heavy bolters turret painted yet). Normally I will never field this squad, as I know is really expensive, and it will be very difficult that they earns their points back. Those points will be better used for a second predator and more las-plas squads, but neither the tank nor the tactical squads are fully painted yet…

- I like the idea of teleport homer, and normally I will use it in an infiltrating scout squad… but you know what… my scouts aren’t fully painted yet…

- The assault squad plus chappy has been my winner horse in all the games I played till now. I think your two flamers idea may work, but you may risk killing to much models in the shooting phase and then not been able to charge.

So, what I may exchange or add is quite limited… the attack bike is ready, and also a couple of melta gun bikes…. Also I may add more bolter marines to the devastator squad…I may also exchange the dread to a shooting one (missiles and lass cannon) But any other changes require a painting time that I don’t have at the moment…