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Are they a good idea or not? I have a Marshal that now has a 7-man command squad, and I wanted to know if the loadout is worth it. I don't use the command squad in games of less than 1500 points - they're too damn expensive as a unit. Besides being Templars and wanting to have a squad charge into battle with my commander, I need to make sure he can get into H2H alive so that he can use his teleport homer.

Don't freak out when you see what my commander has. He's built, and decently painted I might add, so there's no point in saying that I need to drop everything and make him a 90 point Bolt Pistol and Power Sword 3-Wound Initiate.

Marshal - 149 pts
Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Iron Halo, Frag Grenades, Melta Bombs, Purity Seals, Teleport Homer, Infiltrate

Command Squad - 220 pts

Veteran Sergeant - 50 pts
Terminator Honors, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Frag Grenades, Infiltrate

Company Champion - 40 pts
Bolt Pistol, Power Axe, Combat Shield, Frag Grenades, Infiltrate

Sword Brethren Bodyguard (5) - 130 pts
Meltagun (2), Bolt Pistol & CCW (3), all with Frag Grenades and Infiltrate


The combined unit costs 369 points, Infiltrates, can pop tanks with 2 Meltaguns, a Power Fist, and a Melta Bomb.

The Command Squad can deliver 3 PF attacks, 2 Power Sword attacks, and 8 regular attacks, not on the charge. They'll kill 29/12 (2.42) MEQ per CC turn, and will kill 30/18m (1.67) MEQ at 12" or less per shooting turn. So on the shoot and charge, this squad will kill 147/36 (4.08) MEQ, without the Marshal.

I was thinking about giving them all Terminator Honors, so that they'd have additional killing power in CC, and so that my Co. Champion could grab a Power Fist.

Would there be any point in taking an apothecary w/ Terminator Honors and give him a Power Sword/Fist? I'm trying to pack as much killing power into this 7-man + Marshal squad without breaking the points bank.

CK

Im not as up on my BT rules as I used to be (3rd ed for me when I played BT) But here is some help

Your command squad is certainly death, and the fact that you have decided to infiltrate will reduce time it takes to get into assault.

Well with infiltration that is great, the melta bomb might be a waste of 5 points, (You have two meltas already)but if you can't find anything to spend them on by all means. Rather than the halo I would opt for a mantle. If you goal is to get into hand to hand what you really have to think about whether or not you will be coming up against STR8+ weapons or power weapons. If you are fighting guys with lots of STR8+ weapons, or you intend on having to slogg, I would suggest instead that you get a mantle, eliminating the possibility of insta death.

Don't give them terminator honours that IS a huge waste of points sure the extra attacks are great, but if you give everyone the honors, you are spending points where you could have just as easily bought a chaplain for the same cose(who lets you reroll your missed hits, increasing chances of getting MORE hits) and makes your guys fearless. Plus since you are BT if you take a morale check you auto pass, meaning you have to move forward, towards a unit of your choice (chaplain rules)

If you need an apothecary think why you would, and remember you can't use his skills if he is in close combat (nullifying the point of an apothecary). He might just be a waste of points, as opposed to just another marine, if you can.

Also no reason to give your guy frag grenads, only one person in the squad needs it to gain the benefit. That will save some points for something else (plus you don't lose any effect).  Unless they are forced on your guys, in which case

Thanks for the pointers, ATI.

One of the additions I had mixed feelings about was the Terminator Honors. Instead of tacking another 60 points of extra attacks onto the unit, I was thinking about putting in a basic Reclusiarch with a Bolt Pistol, Crozius, and his Rosarius for 96 points.

I feel a little uneasy about giving a 150 point commander an anti-instant death device and not invulnerable save. He has a Mantle, but now he also has a combat shield.

No Terminator Honors, save for the Vet. Sarge so that he can take a Power Fist.

Frags are gone, except for the Vet. Sarge.

I tossed the Marshal's Melta bombs. With 2 Meltaguns and a Power Fist, there's little point to have it.

Along with the other recommendations made, here's the new unit:

<h2>Marshal Agrarius – 150 pts </h2>

Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Adamantine Mantle, Teleport Homer, Purity Seals

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

<h1>Command Squad (7 + Reclusiarch) – 310 pts </h1>

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<h1>Veteran Sergeant – 50 pts </h1>

Terminator Honors, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist, Frag Grenades, Infiltrate

Company Champion - 39 pts
Bolt Pistol, Power Axe, Combat Shield, Infiltrate

Sword Brethren Bodyguard (5) - 125 pts
Meltagun (2), Bolt Pistol & CCW (3), all with Infiltrate

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

<h1>Reclusiarch – 96 pts </h1>

Crozius Arcanum, Bolt Pistol, Rosarius

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

<h1>Total Cost: 460 Points </h1>

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

The Command Squad will dish out the following in H2H (not on the charge):

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

3 PF Attacks, 3 Power Weapon Attacks (Co. Champion w/ WS 4), 4 Power Weapon Attacks (Reclusiarch w/ WS 5), 8 Regular Attacks. This unit will kill 48/12 (4.0) MEQ in CC.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Marshal receives 4 (WS 5) Power Weapon Attacks (not on the charge), and kills 1.5 Marines per turn.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

This unit will kill 5.5 MEQ per CC turn (not on the charge, excluding shooting). That’s 82.5 points killed per turn. If they can get into CC on turn one, they will pay for themselves by turn 6 (It will take 5.76… turns for them to pay themselves off in CC. If they kill a few extra on the charge in turn 1 or two, by the end of the game they’ll have eaten close to 500 points of MEQ.

How does it look now?

CK

Careful on that math. It won't take 5 turns for 460 points of squad to pay for itself by killing 82 points of opponent per turn. It takes 5.6 assault phases, or 2.5 turns. That's kind of a best case scenario, though, 'cuz you're going to be taking casualties, too.

Still, that's a lot of killy goodness. Lot of points in one unit though. Not really my style, but test it out and let us know how it goes.

Sal.

Having the ability to re-roll is great (especially since if you attach the chaplain he can infiltrate with you) if you get any misses. It will work wonders for your power weapons and fist.

If you find that those melta guns aren't as useful (they are designed to take out MEQ's big nasties, and tanks) because your opponent is out maneuvering your command squad (moving outside of range with the tanks) you might consider making your command squad entirely about assaulting units, add two flamers and then you are really ready to rock and roll against light infantry in cover all the way up to monstrous creatures. (of course you lose the ability to take out heavy tanks so that is entirely up to you and what you want your command squad to do).

To me it makes sense to have a command like this, WITH infiltrate it makes a lot of sense. Just make sure you have proper back up with your troops and heavy support choices

Well, a decent plasma gun doubletap will eat many a point away after those boys get out of their first combat.

Thats inherently true about anyone though, I don't see that as a reason to reject the premise of the command squad. I mean, the gun is str 7 and AP2 everything gets hurt by the thing.

You just have to make sure you are consistently in assault and have proper fire cover to get rid of opponents.

To me it breaks down like this, there are always bigger weapons that can kill your guys very quickly, its about making sure you have a way of denying those weapons from firing, or minimizing losses.

My 2500 BT list will have this unit infiltrating up the field, supported by my Sword Brethren (8-man w/ PF and LC Pair). The Command Squad will charge in with the Vets, use the teleport homer to dump a 5-man Termie squad into the enemy line (it has an AC and CML, but I'm going to model another AC before it's all over with). In the meantime, I'll have a 5-man Assault Squad (PF, 2 PlasPistols) that is attached to my other Chaplain with a Jump Pack. They'll be able to cover distance fast, and should hopefully be able to support the Command, Veteran, and Terminator squads by turn 3 at the latest. They'll be supported by a pair of Multi-Melta Attack Bikes that will pop any harassing armor (enemy troops will just end up getting assaulted, so no need for a pair of HB's).

The second wave will consist of a pair of choppy Crusader Squads, each toting a PF and Meltagun. They'll advance alongside my Venerable Dread (AC, DCCW), all of which will be covered by fire from a Pred. Destructor (my only dedicated anti-personnel) and a pair of Multi-Melta armed Typhoons. The Emperor's Champion can slog it with the 2nd wave.

It will lead to me throwing roughly 2100 points of choppy killing power at my opponent in the form of around 60 models and a Dread.

I'll put my 2500 list up in the Army List section later (Maybe my 2K too).

CK