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Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Never did like critical fumbles. It's unreasonably random, and falls in to lolememe territory from what I've seen of it.

Failing at the intended task is enough punishment.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Thadin wrote:
Never did like critical fumbles. It's unreasonably random, and falls in to lolememe territory from what I've seen of it.
And it's not even part of the rules most of the time. In D&D generally a roll of 1 to hit or defend is a fail, and a roll of 1 anywhere else is the just +1.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/07 16:59:51


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

 Thadin wrote:
Combat is the tricky part of player dice rolls sucking hard, admittedly. However, I have to say that a +5 to attack is pretty low. That's a strength/dex score of 16 and being lvl1-4.

In this situation, the only advice that can really be given to the player is to keep their chin up, and talk to the DM about their concerns and frustrations. Most of the advice in this case needs to be given to the DM instead, since they're in control at the end of the day.

For 5e fighters, a lot of the subclasses are pretty passive. I don't think I could ever play a Fighter as anything but Battlemaster or Rune or Eldritch Knight, because they do so damn much, very active abilities and more to think about beyond smash stat stick.


Well, yeah we are all Level 4.

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Made in us
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Help me Dakka D&D'rs, you're my only hope!
New DM playing with 3 new players. We ran the Lost Mine of Phandelever. They really enjoyed it! Had to add an NPC cleric to the party. Fighter, Rouge and Wizard run by new players was on track for TPK real quick. Adding a shy, just out of "Adventuring School" Cleric was something I'm super proud of. He's book smart so he can fill them in on basic stuff the PCs should know but hangs back so the 3 players are the real stars.
Anyways, got sidetracked.
They're level 5 now and finished the campaign. They all want to head to the Underdark so I figured I'd drop them into "Out of the Abyss". Problem is, I can't think of a good place to insert them into that campaign.
Start at the beginning with them being captured? I'll have to do some serious re-leveling of the baddies.
Start at the point the heros go back into the Underdark? That's level 7 stuff and they missed a ton of the background.
Any good ideas for a clean insertion?
Thanks!
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Drow sometimes perform Surface Raids, where they attack predominantly elven communities in an act of spite and revenge.

Perhaps, have them caught by one of these surface raids?

I'm not intimately familiar with this Adventure, and I'm only going off a wiki page summarizing it's start.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
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Made in us
[DCM]
Pyre Troll






Upgrading the encounter could work.

You could also change when the encounter happens, having it happen after the party has weakened and blown through their abilities from fighting something else (which could give you the option of having them fight something you or they think would be cool, but haven't had a good chance to use)

There is also the classic betrayed by some npc scenario, such as the evil innkeeper who poisons the party or something
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Drow are quite famous for their Sleeping poisons, so an inn keeper or something sounds like a really solid idea to me.

 Rippy wrote:
When you lose to a 7 year old, it's wise to not come and admit it and then try to blame the armies


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Easy E wrote:
 Thadin wrote:
Combat is the tricky part of player dice rolls sucking hard, admittedly. However, I have to say that a +5 to attack is pretty low. That's a strength/dex score of 16 and being lvl1-4.

In this situation, the only advice that can really be given to the player is to keep their chin up, and talk to the DM about their concerns and frustrations. Most of the advice in this case needs to be given to the DM instead, since they're in control at the end of the day.

For 5e fighters, a lot of the subclasses are pretty passive. I don't think I could ever play a Fighter as anything but Battlemaster or Rune or Eldritch Knight, because they do so damn much, very active abilities and more to think about beyond smash stat stick.


Well, yeah we are all Level 4.


Its hard to know without knowing what the DM is doing. Some DMs scale the challenges to the player. If player is x powerful then the DC changes to accommodate. I don't agree with that method but its not unheard of. If the Dm is scaling up his DCs to create a challenge for a character that would otherwise breeze through the DMG recommended checks then the issue can only be addressed with the DM.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

A super cool DnD themed board game live on Kickstarter now:

The Prologue...

The party starts their descent into the catacombs. A faint light is spotted through a narrow tunnel that opens up into a much larger cavern. The noxious odor of burning sulphur mixed with another foul odor hits you as you enter. The thunderous crash behind you startles the entire party. The billows of debris and dust that spill out of the opening you just came through can only mean one thing – that way out is now buried. Two, large locked doors on each side can’t be budged. You turn your attention back to the faint light and you all creep closer. You begin to make out a large table almost to the back wall and as you come closer, your eyes open wide and you stifle a scream.

Laid out upon the table are various body parts, freshly severed, with blood oozing from the clean cuts and the gaping holes. An abnormally large axe sits with its sharp edge buried deep into the table. The scene looks like a macabre butcher’s table from a horrible dream. It is then you hear the deafening roars, which seem to be coming from all around you. The two doors on the upper end of the cavern both burst open and you expect a charge into the room of inhuman monsters, but the roars still seem further off. Each of you decide to take your chances through the doors in hopes of finding another way out. Tricks, traps and undead denizens lurk in the catacombs before you… The roars grow closer… the Minotaurs are coming back and you must get out now!


KS Page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mdsw/minotaur-catacombs
[Thumb - KS pic 1.JPG]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/09 14:14:10


My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

Our 20th session of Curse of Strahd, and we are on the cusp of..... something. Our group can't quiet put together what is happening at a certain location.

However, our usual strategy of just going up and talking to folks and offering them wine instead of fighting is paying off. Saved us from getting our heads handed to us from a foe that would be way out of our level 4 league. Instead, we are getting to dialogue with them and try to learn plot relevant details.

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 Easy E wrote:
In our Curse of Strahd group, our fighter has a +7 (or something) athletics and a +5 attack roll. Yet, they manage to roll a 1 at least three times a session on a d20. They have gotten stuck in a tight entry way, broken their weapon so many times they don't bother fixing it, and can not reliably climb a tree, jump from roof top to rooftop, or bust down a door.

Going into session 20, they are starting to get a bit frustrated as they remember failing more often then succeeding. In theory, they should be killing things like crazy based on their build, but they almost never end up doing anything; and it is pissing them off.

It does not help that all their attacks are also non-magical in the Curse of Strahd world. They feel like their character who is optimized to hit things really hard with a stick, and do athletic stuff is pretty useless. They are starting to wonder what they add to the party, because they are finding it not very rewarding being a damage soak and just subtracting hit points.

I don't have a lot of good advise for this person. They are new to D&D, but not role-playing.


Our Fighter also ended up running into this issue - the Druid, the Rogue/trickster cleric, and the Paladin all felt like they had stuff (generally, spells) that allowed them to creatively use their character in many more situations than the fighter, who basically only got to stand out after initiative was rolled.

generally, the fighter's player was the most compelled by and had the most fun with magical items, even silly ones. his signature weapon 'for when things got serious' was essentially a Wand of Wonders strapped to a Longsword (any effect that would ordinarily happen 'at range' would originate out of the tip of the longsword and any effect that would happen based on pointing the Wand at something would happen when he hit a target with the sword. The first time he swung it he declared "this HAS to talk" and so I voice the sword. It is very proud of its phenomenal mystic powers and is not keen on simply giving them away on demand.) and while his initial jokey character concept was 'edgy shonen anime protagonist' he kind of warped over time into an edgy, batman-style vigilante hero, so he liked having various ridiculous gadgets.

When we hit level 4 in place of a Feat we gave him the basic artificer ability to create temporary minor magical items - basically, once per day he could make 1 of 6 items which would stick around all day if it wasnt a one-use item. I think he had Alchemy Jug (the one he ended up using most of the time) Cap of Water Breathing, Bead of Force, Wand of Climbing...and a couple others. The alchemy jug we declared the 'jug of hospitality' and decided it could produce any kind of pourable liquid or sauce that would reasonably be provided for free at a dining establishment (in exchange for losing out on 'basic poison' and 'acid' which seemed uncreative and too obvious). Our fighter's player was a server at a restaurant for a long time and delighted in using the jug for both good and evil, particularly its ability to produce TWO GALLONS OF MAYONNAISE.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/09 17:08:52


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

For the first time in 21 sessions, I missed the game last night. I had an alternate lined up to play in my stead, but I missed it.

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MN

Back to the campaign tonight, but I missed a session. Any special etiquette for getting back up to speed?

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Dominating Dominatrix






I typically begin every session by asking my players to recap the last session. It both tells me what happened that was important to them and gives me a chance to fill in some blanks/remind them on things that were important that they may have forgotten or were not paying attention to.

Sort of a.. "last time on...."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/22 06:11:23



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

quick intro and impressions..

I am a LONG term DM ... started in 1979 when I was in 7th grade.. and 2 of those players are STILL playing with me in 2021.. hah!

I pretty much DMed up thru the introduction of 3.0 and .. the "video game ish ness" turned me off from gaming.. the old skool vibe was gone.

we migrated to Board Games, some Miniatatures (I provided) and families etc..

Fast forward to 2020, pandemic hit, and my group decided to try 5e thru Roll20. Another player offered to DM, so I could play.. and he bought the online rules thru roll20 and off we went. Over 6 months, his sense of frustration and our own experiences in roll20, got to the point where playing virtually was.. almost painful. Probably due to new platform, new edition, new dm... what have you

Now, 4 of the 8 people in the game had played with me before, and (evidently) a grass roots campaign to get me to run in person, in 5E was launched..

Got home one day, there was an amazon parcel on my doorstep from a "Get reading dammit" return address (literally).. and inside was the core 3 books.

So, read for a month, got other books from the library, read those, wrote some easy adventures .. and off we went.

Got 5 players, and me.. and they being 1st level, I went looking for CR1 critters. and.. was stunned. Zombies were 1/2 CR, so 2 is a good fight, maybe, but.. 22 hit points? yowch.. I am used to 2e zombies with 8-10.. so I am HOPING that the characters have plenty of damage output.

They do NOT have a fighter.. they have an elven druid, gnome cleric (death domain), a tabaxi rogue and a (humanish looking) Yua-ti purebred Sorcerer.. the 5th player has not decided a class, but was thinking cleric/ftr

It looks like their first fight is going to be with an animated Scarecrow and a Swarm of Crows.. so we shall see.

I was able to check several of the adventure path books out of the library.. and really did not like the scripted feel of the adventures.. I am so used to making my own as we go... so I doubt I will use them.. plus finding out that each "adventure path" has its own Dice, GM Screen, lavatory paper, Maps, socks, and other stuff feels like such a money grab..

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0

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bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info! 
   
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Battlefield Tourist




MN

 Lance845 wrote:
I typically begin every session by asking my players to recap the last session. It both tells me what happened that was important to them and gives me a chance to fill in some blanks/remind them on things that were important that they may have forgotten or were not paying attention to.

Sort of a.. "last time on...."


Thanks Lance. That is what we did! I missed a lot in one game!

We leveled up to 5th level, and spirit guardians is an insane 3rd level cleric spell!

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Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

Hi All - Just about the last week for the DnD themed game on KS my company designed, Minotaur Catacombs.

Check it out with all the minis you get and set-up/play video. Also, how to get three free Hero minis with your pledge.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mdsw/minotaur-catacombs

5 Heroes (8 total possible, also with optional 5 female party add-on for a total of 13 Heroes to choose from)
6 Undead
1 Undead Sergeant
5 Minotaurs
4 Chests
6 Doors
1 Butcher's table
[Thumb - Painted figs.jpg]

[Thumb - KS pic 2b.JPG]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/22 16:59:43


My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

Controversial Post Ahead:

Railroading is an essential tool for a GM and is needed for good session/adventure design. A GM must have an idea of a sessions Hook, Encounter Path, and Big Finale as a backbone of their session. How players move between these points is irrelevant and at the whims of the players.

Railroading is only bad when it is done badly, and the illusion of choice is broken for the player. I.e. Railroading is bad only when it is perceived by players.

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Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

Railroading is a lot like plot contrivance in my book.

Every story needs it or the story would lose all meaning. Some things just need to happen for things to play out in a way that isn't chaos.

The thing is that when you fail to obscure it, it's like showing the audience (or the players) the man behind the curtain. The illusion breaks and all they fell is angry that there's a man behind the curtain. Bad railroading isn't bad because it's railroading per se, it's bad because the players noticed and it broke SOD. GMing isn't that much different from writing in this respect imo. In both cases, it's important to ensure that the invisible hand of the plot is not visible to be seen. It needs to remain behind the curtain.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/28 22:03:58


   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I think you can absolutely structure games that way and they will be fun. Especially if you are going for a more narrative structure.

But I'd argue that it is not required at all, and you can equally have fun with completely freeform sessions where the players have freedom of choice to engage with whatever they want.
I think sessions don't need to be structured like narratives, because I don't think the purpose of D&D is to create narratives.

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

True Da Boss. I just hear people "rail" against railroading like it is original sin of RPGs and that any Railroading is bad.

I disagree strongly. If the GM is using a three act structure to their games, then a bit of railroading is necessary. As LoH says, Bad Railroading is Bad.

Even sandbox games develop their own narratives and sessions may require a bit of railroading to get them to a satisfactory conclusion.

To me, Railroading itself is just another tool in the tool box of being a GM.

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Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

Yeah definitely agree. Bad Railroading is different to railroading done well. Though it does seem weird to use the word railroading in a positive sense.

   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

My Current campaign is broken up like-

Intro situation - party must gel to survive

sandbox - where players pick up clues regarding big bag thing sleeping in the mountains

partial conclusion - party attempts to loot or prevent big bad thing, realizes they are OUT OF THEIR ELEMENT and either is stupid and dies, or retreats, but that allows BBT to start building up his forces after the party woke him up

sandbox 2 - party runs around playing whack a mole with the BBT minions and levelling and MAYBE doing research to see if there is a historical item to assist (yes)

Final denounment - win or lose, they are finishing with this ..

I do not "think" this is railroading, but it IS narrative driven. Can the party walk away from sandbox 1 stuff? Yup, sure can. If so, I shelve this campaign and pull out the other one I have prepared.. lol

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0

www.40korigins.com
bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info! 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

 porkuslime wrote:
My Current campaign is broken up like-

Intro situation - party must gel to survive

sandbox - where players pick up clues regarding big bag thing sleeping in the mountains

partial conclusion - party attempts to loot or prevent big bad thing, realizes they are OUT OF THEIR ELEMENT and either is stupid and dies, or retreats, but that allows BBT to start building up his forces after the party woke him up

sandbox 2 - party runs around playing whack a mole with the BBT minions and levelling and MAYBE doing research to see if there is a historical item to assist (yes)

Final denounment - win or lose, they are finishing with this ..

I do not "think" this is railroading, but it IS narrative driven. Can the party walk away from sandbox 1 stuff? Yup, sure can. If so, I shelve this campaign and pull out the other one I have prepared.. lol


Is it a rail road? Depends on who you ask.

In theory, the PCs HAVE to eventually face the big bad because if they don't..... their world is destroyed or are personally put in danger by the Big Bad and his minions. Choosing to do nothing is still a choice, but eventually the consequences add up for the PCs. So, while they are running around trying to establish a new town and become its rulers, the Bad Guy's power and forces are still growing. Eventually, the Big Bad will come for the PCs town, and they may lead them back into Sandbox 2 or the Final Battle.

Some would see that as a Rail Road as the PCs can not escape facing the Big Bad and his minions.

Edit: Personally, I don't. It is just see it being an inevitable consequence of their (in)action.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 16:08:53


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Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

something I should mention.. there is ONE cultist in one village who is slowly working to free the Big Bag Thing who is undead and locked away.

He is part of the sandbox 1, and if the party talk to him, he will use the party as tools to wake up BBT.. if they dont find him, the BBT will wake up, but like in 10-15 game years..

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0

www.40korigins.com
bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info! 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Da Boss wrote:
I think you can absolutely structure games that way and they will be fun. Especially if you are going for a more narrative structure.

But I'd argue that it is not required at all, and you can equally have fun with completely freeform sessions where the players have freedom of choice to engage with whatever they want.
I think sessions don't need to be structured like narratives, because I don't think the purpose of D&D is to create narratives.


TBH I've played in both Bad Railroaded and Bad Freeform sessions.

Bad Freeform is generally characterized by a DM who has done very little prep and doesnt have particularly interesting ideas, and usually result in the players examining a lot of stuff and it turning out to be boring and procedural and the game world not feeling much like the real world but feeling a lot like one of those old Final Fantasy type games, where you can hit the A button all you want but only a few things and people pop up text and none of it is very interesting, and every few steps the screen goes all woogly and you fight some wolves that for some reason have 4GPs and a magic dagger on them.

Bad Railroading is when your role as player has essentially been written out for you, and the game turns into 'figure out what the DM intended you to do here, and make sure you do it because he punishes you with damage every time you dont do what youre supposed to do.'

At the end of the day, all RPGs are improv and it's more important to follow the rules of good improv (as a group, not just the DM) than it is to strictly adhere to the letter of the rules or a perfectly linear or non-linear structure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/29 18:09:18


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 Easy E wrote:
Controversial Post Ahead:

Railroading is an essential tool for a GM and is needed for good session/adventure design. A GM must have an idea of a sessions Hook, Encounter Path, and Big Finale as a backbone of their session. How players move between these points is irrelevant and at the whims of the players.

Big Finale on a session by session basis? That's a bit much, and a quick road to exhaustion for players and the DM. Similarly, not every session needs a hook or 'encounter path' (whatever you may happen to mean by that). They should follow from previous sessions, and from the players goals and motivations (and hopefully what they're encountering in the world).

Though 'how' players move between the points is very much not irrelevant. They need to build naturally and logically on each other.


Railroading is only bad when it is done badly, and the illusion of choice is broken for the player. I.e. Railroading is bad only when it is perceived by players.


Its a group game. The emphasis on hiding things from players and dazzling them with BS illusions is very strange. The illusion of _choice_ especially so. Yeah, you don't necessarily want individual players to go off playing merchant simulator, but the idea that they need to presented with false choices that always lead back to the railroad is the very definition of Bad Railroad.



------
Also, not sure if anyone here caught the '6th Edition But Not Really' announcement.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-2024-sixth-edition-fifth-edition/

Basically, 2024 will see new core rulebooks (players handbook, DMG and MM, presumably) with new content but backwards compatible with 5e. Which is always an interesting balancing act.

Also 3 'classic' settings will be 'released' over the 2022-2023. This probably just means a hardcover one and done for each (and maybe a hardcover adventure), which tends to be pretty meh.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 00:18:58


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






So DnD 5.5.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Pyre Troll






 Lance845 wrote:
So DnD 5.5.

but will it bring balance to the force.......i mean stuff higher then level 10-12 or whatever it is they playtested for to begin with
   
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Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

I've been waiting for that announcement. The game has too many player rules spread across too many books. A consolidation and balance clean up would do the game a lot of good plus some QoL improvements.

The classic settings will probably be Greyhawk, Spelljamer, and Ravenloft. Blag I mean Dark Sun. My money at least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 01:50:24


   
 
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