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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/03 12:37:21
Subject: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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I can get 5 firestorms for the 20 more points then I can get for a Gothic class cruiser. I think all in all, more firepower. 5 Lance shots, with a 10 on the Weapon Batteries. Down side though is survivability. A gothic cruiser can take 4 points of damage before it starts loosing it's shooting capability. The firestorms take 4 points of damage, their pretty much a worthless unit. So what do you vets prefer? Go with the fewer ships for the more survivability, or go with more of the ships to get that bigger first punch?
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/03 15:41:04
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Murfreesboro, TN
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I think my opinion is quite clear: CRUISERS UBER ALLES!!!
A Gothic (or Lunar, for that matter) has more options, more staying power, and overall more utility than an escort squadron. The first punch isn't the one that decides the fight; it's the last one.
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As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/08 16:13:42
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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I've just downloaded the rules recently, and haven't played at all yet.
It looks like Escorts are almost impossible to hit with weaponry, but lances would make short work of them. 4 lance shots = 1 dead escort, on average.
Is there something I'm not seeing?
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-S
2000 2000 1200
600 190 in progress
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/08 18:31:36
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Murfreesboro, TN
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They're far from "impossible" to hit with gunnery. Like anything, you have to have a lot of firepower to do anything effective. You have to get lucky to even take down a shield on a capital ship with low-Firepower shots. Lances are great weapons, but aren't the universal solvent of the game.
The major downside of an escort squadron is, for every two hits (shield and ship), you lose effectiveness. Also, a hit by an assault boat kills an escort on a 2+, whereas it only causes a minor critical on a capital ship.
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As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/09 10:22:58
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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I was looking at the gunnery table, and assuming that most Escorts will be travelling abeam or at least >30 cm away when passing a capital ship. Even with 14 weapon battery, that's only 3 dice - maybe just knock down the shielf, maybe kill one escort. Whereas 4 lances should kill an escort, no matter the aspect. In contrast to vs capital ships: weaponry 14 will probably take down the shields and get a hit or two, whereas 4 lances are unlikely to do more than drop the shields. Anyways, it's all theoryGothic until I get my box set
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-S
2000 2000 1200
600 190 in progress
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/09 11:03:24
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Murfreesboro, TN
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If the escorts are 30+ cm away, then they aren't affecting the game (excepting torp ships); if they close to shoot, then they aren't abeam and aren't 30+ cm away.
The gunnery is generally to pop shields, and the lances are follow-up to deal the damage, since they aren't affected by the shift that the new blast markers cause.
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As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/16 02:10:09
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I like escorts, and I know this is a personal thing, but for me 2 escorts per capital ship is a fluffy minimum. List I ran for a long time was a Barge, two Strike Cruisers, and six Swords.
but theres a limit. I remember one guy wanting to proxy a 1,000 pt all Ork Brute Ramship army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/16 06:50:41
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I never liked escorts in my Imp fleets. Go with light cruisers, cruisers and a battleship and you're good.
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All problems can be solved with proper use of a high powered rifle and a water tower |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/12/15 03:32:52
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Getting in here late, but I really like Escorts for all my fleets. They provide a number of functions: 1) additional, quick firepower (faster and more maneuverable than cruisers) 2) force target checks for enemy ships (have to check Ld to shoot the further Cruiser) 3) absorb firepower. As someone mentioned, escorts are capable of staying abeam of enemy cruisers due to their ability to turn 90 degrees at any time in the move. This allows the smallest profile. Likewise, if you Brace for Impact, it doesn't hurt the Escort's firepower as much as a Cruiser's. This is especially true for torpedoe carriers. I've had an escort squadron of 5 ships take an entire Eldar fleet's shooting, and only lose a couple of escorts. The other point is that you have to take minimum 4-5 of them in a squadron. Otherwise, as mentioned, the firepower diminishes quickly. another trick is to use them in and around asteroid fields. Their re-roll to Ld allows them to hide in and then jump out of asteroid fields to strike at enemy targets - but remember to concentrate fire!
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Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
30k Word Bearers 2000 points (in progress)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013
"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/12/24 13:37:32
Subject: RE: IN: To escort, or not to escort.
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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Escorts work, but you have to know how to use them.
For Orks and Eldar escorts are essential and dont effect your fleet strategy much. In many ways they are just smaller versions of the capital ships. A good proportion of escorts is recommended, approx 50% for Orks (you neeed Roks and terror ships) and at least 50% for Eldar (though you can make a workable capital ship fleet).
Necrons dont need escorts, and have the problem that escorts are relatively easy to kill but dont provide premium victory points if you lose them. Generally I would only take Necron escorts to add variety to the limited selection of Necron vessels.
Space Marines are a special case. Even though you have only two capital ship designs I dont recommend taking anything more than a token bnumber of escorts, and then only in a large (and otherwise blad) fleet. The reason is because the Space Marines main advantage is the 6+ armour. Escorts work against you simply because they provide targets for weapons battery armed ships, thus restoring enemy gunnery to its full potential. Exploited well it a serious handicap to oivercome. Besides Space Marine escorts are overpriced. Escorts are the only way to get lances, but it will be better to forgo lances than take escorts.
I cant speak with much experience on Tau and Tyranids.
Now for the main two fleets. Here the escort policy variers from escort to escort
CHAOS
Idolators - Expensive and gimicy. The column shift is not worth anything and is only there to push the price up. Lances - Chaos fleets are full of them, with 60cm range too. I have three Idolators in my 3000pt fleet, and only for a bit of variety. When I make smaller lists they are the first to go.
Infidel - Wonderful vessels. Highly recommended, the last line in the Chaos fledet list says why. because you can take boarding torpedoes. Fill your torps with cultists and fire them at the enemy, they are less effective but can make a turn every time they move. This makes long range fire much more reliable. infidel also send out torpedoes piecemeal so they have a great nuisance factor and can be used to clear away enemy fighters.
Iconoclasts. Cheap and nasty Iconoclasts are a good backstop for your fleet. You dont need many just a few to lurk behind your fleet in the event of outmanoeuver, and then only when facing escort heavy fleets like Orks and Eldar. You can do the same with Infidel though and while their firepower is half as efficient they are far more survivable and still maintain their primary torpedo support role.
In general Chaos fleets dont need escorts too much because Chaos cruisers have good range and arcs of fire. However two small squadrons Infidels lurking behind the fleet are very cost effective and highly recommended.
IMPERIALS.
Firestorm - Dont compare 6 Firestorms to a Gothic, instead compare 3 Firestorm to a Dauntless. the Dauntless has the same manoeuverability and firepower but is generally far more survivable - unless facing bombers. Dauntlesses are always a good choice, Firestorms less so. However this does mean you can add some Firestorms to a fleet with Dauntlesses and have them fit in the same role if you want a bit of a change.
Swords - The must have escort for the Imperials. Swords are needed because they are survivable, cheap and are battery armed. This makes them perfect close escorts for your capital ships. Imperial ships are for the most part short ranged and have forward blindspots. This makes it easy for enemies to outmanoeuver them. Swords are needed to cover those blindspots. a favourite trick of mine is to split my Swords into pairs and assign eacxh pair as close escort to a capital ship and form a triangle formation with their parent vessel increasing her turret factors by two. Swords are also essential for fighting Eldar because few Imperial guns have a range over 30cm, and those ships that do notably the Overlord and Emperor class will be priority targets for the Eldar attack.
Cobras - Very potent, but also risky. Cobra squadrons should be large and held back until they can make a carefully positioned flank attack of 10-12 torpedoes with overshooting torps hitting other enemy vessels behind. The problem is that 4+ armour makes Cobras an easy target. Use with caution.
Unlike Chaos fleets the Imperials must use escort forces. Though the Dauntless can count as a large escort for these purposes. Roles are different than for chaos although the three ship classes are similar. Imperial fleets NEED Swords wheereas Chaos fleets are strengthened by Infidels but are not forced to rely on them.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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