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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/11 20:00:57
Subject: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Calm Celestian
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HQ: [-] Autarch, S.Hawk Wings, B. Mask, S. Chainsword, Fusion Gun 108 ELITES: [-] 10 Howling Banshees, Exarch, Triskele, Acrobatics 182 [+] Waveserpent, B. Lance, S. Cannon, V. Engines, S. Stones 175 TROOPS: [-] 10 Guardians, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Conceal 135 [-] 10 Guardians, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Conceal 135 [-] 10 Guardians, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Conceal 135 FAST ATTACK: [-] 2 Vyper, Scatter Lasers 120 [-] 9 Warp Spiders, Exarch W/ Death Spinner and Suprise Assault 225 HEAVY SUPPORT: [-] Falcon, Starcannon, S. Cannon, V. Engines, S. Stone, Holo-Field 215 [-] Fire Prism, V. Engines, Holo-field, S. Stone 180 [-] 2 WarWalkers, 2 StarCannons, 2 Scatter Lasers 140 Total: 1750 The General Idea is to use the Vypers, Fireprism and Falcon to harass the enemy for the first few turns until the rest of my fireline can get there. [Warwalkers, 30 Guardians and Deep Striking Warp Spiders. Use the Banshees to hit anything tough or as a counter assault force. I'm hoping to have a high enough ROF to force enough saving throws that Marines will fail. With just the Guardians, WarpSpiders and Vypers it's 106 Str 4-6 shots at 12 inches. Hopefully that will be enough to wipeout a couple of squads. Tell me what you think. Cheers.
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"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/11 20:38:55
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Id give you good compositionscores, and bad odds to win a lot in tourneys.
You dont have to be Iron Warriors to play a competitive shooty list, but you shouldnt be that much worse too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/11 21:12:58
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Rampaging Carnifex
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This list is not any good at all.
Why would you want to pay 135 pts for 4 str 6 shots per turn? There are only two things you should ever take guardians for. They should either be 10 man with 2 fusion guns in a waveserpent, or walking with a conceallok and brightlance. The bright lance is highly questionable but it is the ONLY reason to take guardians over jetbikes.
Vypers have no place being played, at all. Warwalkers are really questionable. Why buy 2 Av10 vehicles that can be shaken when you could have a 7 shot wraithlord for fewer points.
Warp spiders have no place in this list. I played a game against a guy with 20 warp spiders recently and found that they still suck. They're too vulnerable to assault and too short range, and easy pickings.
The big problem with spiders in your list is you're giving them something to shoot at with all those guns that aren't worth shooting at your tanks. They have 3+ saves but T3 means fire warriors wound you on 2s, as do heavy bolters and similar.
The banshees seem good but I think I'd rather have mirrorswords than the triskele and possibly more banshees.
Why get an autarch without a power weapon? Really, no reason not to give him a laser lance and a jetbike for the points, but whatever. 5 S4 non-powerweapon attacks does not do crap.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/12 02:04:14
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Plastictrees
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Longshot already kind of said it, but let me emphasize: Guardians still (as in the previous codex) can't cross the board and shoot shuriken catapults at a target they have chosen. They get shot up on the way over--conceal doesn't solve the problem. All the armies you face will outgun you in the 24-12 range band and have something capable of assaulting and breaking the unit before they get to range 12.
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"The complete or partial destruction of the enemy must be regarded as the sole object of all engagements.... Direct annihilation of the enemy's forces must always be the dominant consideration." Karl von Clausewitz |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/12 19:51:31
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Calm Celestian
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Okay, what about this? I'm keeping the Warpspiders, they've served me very well in the passed. HQ: [-] Autarch, Jetbike, Laser lance, Banshee Mask, Fusion gun 133 ELITES: [-] 10 Howling Banshees, Exarch, Triskele, Acrobatics 180 [+] Waveserpent, Bright Lance, Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones 175 [-] 5 Fire Dragons, Exarch, Firepike 100 TROOPS: [-] 10 Guardians, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Conceal 135 [-] 10 Guardians, Bright Lance, Warlock, Conceal 150 [-] 3 Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon 76 FAST ATTACK: [-] 10 Warpspiders, Exarch W/ Extra Death Spinner, Suprise assault 247 HEAVY SUPPORT: [-] Falcon, Starcannon, Shuriken cannon, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field 215 [-] Fire Prism, Vectored Engines, Holo-field, Spirit Stone 180 [-] Wraithlord, Starcannon, Bright Lance 160 Total: 1751
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"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/13 12:47:48
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you are going by what Longshot suggests, then I think this list is better. Worth a few playtests to see how it fares, of course.
A couple things I've noticed from my recent new-codex-Eldar games that may help you - if not, hey, I typed a lot for nothing:
- The bikes really won't accomplish anything against MEQs, so leave them out of sight and use them to capture or contest table quarters. For the points and their abilites, that is all they are really good for. They are also possibly good at blocking transport exits, but you need at least another unit to do that.
- The Banshee Exarchs Triskele was tempting to me, too. I recommend giving her the Executioner as that will really help them. When I used the Tris in shooting recently, I would consistently hit, but fail to wound against MEQ. It needs a Doomseer Dooming the Banshee's target unit for the Tris to be effective. My last game, the Banshees did more damage with their pistols than the Exarch did with her Triskele! 3 pistol shots, 3 dead marines, go figure... So no Doomseer, no Triskele. TRUST me on this, you will regret it otherwise.
- Think about another weapon for the Falcon's secondary. The Starcannon will miss one of those shots every turn. Heck, my last time my Falcon missed with EVERY shot in one shooting phase. And that was with a ScatterLaser! I receommend the Scatterlaser as it is cheaper and you are more likely to hit with it. Sure, MEQs get a save, but at least this way they have to take a save - the Starcannon won't hit often enough for the MEQ to really worry about it.
- who is the Autarch going to run with? The bikes? Or just go where needed?
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-GrimTeef- Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/13 13:30:41
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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Could banshees fleet of foot into assault from the serpent? Then the mirrorblades would be better then the triskele. Anyway, a Farseer with Doom and Guide is very, very good for a list that intends to walk around like you are suggesting, where as the autarch seems to be alone in your list. Guided scatter laser warwalkers hurt all but terminators and TMCs.
You could also drop the fire dragons and the falcon for another Fire Prism. They work much better in pairs the singularly.
Guardian Defenders will want to sit back and take pot shots with their weapons platform. They don't have the firepower or the range to deter any jump troops or fast charging close combat units. They make a good hiding place for farseers who need to guide some Dire Avengers or Doom other units, but that is pretty much it. Storm Guardians are only slightly useful when in a Waveserpent, but for the cost you might as well upgrade to Dire Avengers.
Have you considered running an Avatar and a Farseer along with the wraithlord and the 2 units of guardians? That would be the only way to distract fire away from the guardians.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/13 15:31:48
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Murfreesboro, TN
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Could banshees fleet of foot into assault from the serpent? No, Banshees cannot assault after being dropped out of a Serpent. Since it's closed-topped, pg. 62 still applies, and you can't come within 1" without making an assault move (which pg. 62 disallows).
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As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/14 13:12:53
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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You can't come within 1' in the "movement phase". I can't find anything that discusses movement restrictions outside of the movement phase. It is possible to fleet of foot out of a transport that moved 12', since the unit is still eligable to shoot. The only place I question is where it says on page 62 "After disembarking, models may shoot (counting as moving) but may not assault unless the vehicle is open topped, or a land raider...."
The fleet entry makes no mention of restrictions due to disembarking, nor what happens if you ended up within 1' due to the random distance rolled.
Furthermore, on P38 under "Who Can Fight?" it lists models in base to base with enemy models. Because the 1' restriction clearly states "in the movement phase" and fleet happens in the shooting phase, I could get units into btb during my fleet move.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/14 13:22:24
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Murfreesboro, TN
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Actually, the line "models may shoot (counting as moving) but may not assault" means no assaults. Also, pg. 15 says "A model cannot be placed so it touches an enemy model during the Movement phase - this is only possible in the Assault phase. (emphasis mine)
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As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/14 13:29:35
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
The wilds of Pennsyltucky
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I can't quote you the page but as far as I know the only way to get withink 1" of an enemy is by use of a charge. FOF just won't do it. And as to the list.... Dtop another group of guardians in favor of another 3 squad of bikes and give both a spearlock. It strike sme taht fire prisms are way better but pointless when working on their own. Get more than one or leave them at home and go with more falcons. The ne wwraithlotd is such a wickedly cool model that I have a hard time saying anything bad about it. But a falcon or fire prism would probably work better. Also, in general I think Doom is gonna be a game winner for the eldar. Especially for high rate of fire armies such as yours. ender502
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"Burning the aquila into the retinas of heretics is the new black." - Savnock
"The ignore button is for pansees who can't deal with their own problems. " - H.B.M.C. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/14 17:57:54
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Calm Celestian
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Okay, here we go - I do think Doom is important and I would be remiss if I didn't include the new Avatar. However, I can't bring myself to take a Falcon and not put something in it to transport. Also after a recount of my minatures it appears I only have 9 Warpspiders and not 10 - sad but it does free up 22 points. I took the Bright Lance away from the Guardians as 1 BS 3 shot does not have that great a success rate. The Singing Spear, Avatar, Fire Dragons and Fire Prism should be able to handle those. So here's my final list that I think strikes a balance between effectiveness and my own personal preferences.
Thanks, some final feed back would be apprecheated. Damn spelling. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HQ: [-] Farseer, Spirit Stone, Doom, Guide, Singing Spear 123] [-] Avatar of the Bloody-handed God 155]
ELITES: [-] 10 Howling Banshees, Exarch, Executioner, Acrobatics 185] [+] Waveserpent, Bright Lance, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones 165] [-] 5 Fire Dragons, Exarch 92]
TROOPS: [-] 10 Guardians, Scatter Laser, Warlock, Conceal 135] [-] 10 Guardians, scatter Laser, Warlock, Conceal 135]
FAST ATTACK: [-] 9 Warpspiders, Exarch W/ Extra Death Spinner, Suprise assault 225]
HEAVY SUPPORT: [-] Falcon, Scatter Laser, Shuriken cannon, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stone, Holo-Field 205] [-] Fire Prism, Vectored Engines, Holo-field, Spirit Stone 180] [-] Wraithlord, Scatterlaser, Bright Lance 150]
Total: [1750]
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"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2006/11/15 02:58:22
Subject: RE: High rate of fire Eldar [All comers]
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I would put Star Engines on the Banshees Transport, remember you cannot charge the turn the transport moves, so why bother. Bettter to have the better movement and get the transport in position, then next turn, use your 8" + D6 + 6" assault move out of the transport to hit you opponents lines.
The Avatar is a good choice to support your walking gun line.
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Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)
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