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I agree with the majority guardians are dead and serve no purpose, firedragons have replaced my stormguardians with haywire grenades. I'm not sure I like my wraithlord, but he's got more guns than before so maybe. Anythoughts? I'm sure to face big bugs and drop pod marines with the librarian with fear of darkness.

Fire Away! (Eldar will probably be shelved if I find a replacement army I want to play... unlikely so maybe I just retire)




<table width="540" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 406pt;" x:str=""> <col width="27" style="width: 20pt;"></col> <col width="35" style="width: 26pt;"></col> <col width="162" style="width: 122pt;"></col> <col width="27" style="width: 20pt;"></col> <col width="122" style="width: 92pt;"></col> <col width="22" style="width: 17pt;"></col> <col width="97" style="width: 73pt;"></col> <col width="48" style="width: 36pt;"></col> <tbody> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td width="27" height="18" style="height: 13.5pt; width: 20pt;" class="xl25">#</td> <td width="35" style="width: 26pt;" class="xl22">Type</td> <td width="162" style="width: 122pt;" class="xl22"> </td> <td width="27" style="width: 20pt;" class="xl22"> </td> <td width="122" style="width: 92pt;" class="xl22"> </td> <td width="22" style="width: 17pt;" class="xl22"> </td> <td width="97" style="width: 73pt;" class="xl22"> </td> <td width="48" style="width: 36pt;" class="xl25">Points</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="border-top: medium none; height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">1</td> <td style="" colspan="2" class="xl24">Farseer</td> <td align="right" x:num="" style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl24">1</td> <td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl24">Shuriken Pistol</td> <td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl24"> </td> <td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B2:G3)" x:num="" style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl26">89</td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl28"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="" class="xl23">40</td> <td class="xl23">Base</td> <td align="right" x:num="" class="xl23">18</td> <td class="xl23">Singing Spear</td> <td align="right" x:num="" class="xl23">30</td> <td class="xl23">Fortune</td> <td class="xl28"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27">10</td> <td style="" colspan="2">Harlequins</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B4:G5)" x:num="" class="xl27">250</td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=+A4*22" x:num="">220</td> <td>Base</td> <td align="right" x:num="">30</td> <td>Shadowseer</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">6</td> <td style="" colspan="2" class="xl24">Jetbikes</td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B7:B8)" x:num="" class="xl26">152</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=22*(A6)" x:num="">132</td> <td>Base</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">20</td> <td>Shurrikan Cannon x 2</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">6</td> <td style="" colspan="2" class="xl24">Jetbikes</td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B10:B11)" x:num="" class="xl26">152</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=22*(A9)" x:num="">132</td> <td>Base</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">20</td> <td>Shurrikan Cannon x 2</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">10</td> <td style="" colspan="2" class="xl24">Fire Dragons</td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B12:G13)" x:num="" class="xl26">160</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(A12)*16" x:num="">160</td> <td>Base</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27">1</td> <td style="" colspan="4">WaveSerpent w/ Starcannon & Spiritstones</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B15:G16)" x:num="" class="xl27">165</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">90</td> <td>Base</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td>Shurrikan Cannon</td> <td align="right" x:num="">20</td> <td>Vectored Engine</td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">35</td> <td>Twinlinked Starcannon</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td>Spirit Stones</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">1</td> <td style="" colspan="2" class="xl24">Wraithlord</td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B18:G19)" x:num="" class="xl26">120</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">90</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">20</td> <td>Scatterlaser</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl28"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="" class="xl23">10</td> <td class="xl23">Shurrikan Cannon</td> <td class="xl23"> </td> <td class="xl23"> </td> <td class="xl23"> </td> <td class="xl23"> </td> <td class="xl28"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="border-top: medium none; height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">1</td> <td style="" colspan="4" class="xl24">Falcon w/ Pulsar Laser, Starcannon and Shurikan Cannon</td> <td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl24"> </td> <td style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B21:G23)" x:num="" style="border-top: medium none;" class="xl26">205</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">115</td> <td> Base</td> <td align="right" x:num="">35</td> <td>Holo-Fields</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">15</td> <td>Scatterlaser</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td>Spirit Stones</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td>Shurriken Cannon</td> <td align="right" x:num="">20</td> <td>Vectored Engine</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" align="right" x:num="" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl26">1</td> <td style="" colspan="4" class="xl24">Falcon w/ Pulsar Laser, Starcannon and Shurikan Cannon</td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td class="xl24"> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(B25:G27)" x:num="" class="xl26">205</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">115</td> <td> Base</td> <td align="right" x:num="">35</td> <td>Holo-Fields</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl27"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">15</td> <td>Scatterlaser</td> <td align="right" x:num="">10</td> <td>Spirit Stones</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl27"> </td> </tr> <tr height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td height="18" style="height: 13.5pt;" class="xl28"> </td> <td align="right" x:num="" class="xl23">10</td> <td class="xl23">Shurriken Cannon</td> <td align="right" x:num="" class="xl23">20</td> <td class="xl23">Vectored Engine</td> <td class="xl23"> </td> <td class="xl23"> </td> <td class="xl28"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

First off, not to sound mean or be a dick, but the formatting of your list needs to be reworked, cause it is hard to read.

But enough of my banter and on with the list:

Farseer: I see a popular build being Doom, Fortune and a Ghost Helm. Singing Spear and Pistol are fine, but I would be tempted to put him on a bike. Yes it is expensive, but the ability to move him quickly to where he is needed most could prove to be very valuable.

10 Harlequins: Not bad. Are you going to have them foot sloggin or Falcon riding?? I'd go with putting them in a transport if at all possible. The only other problem is no Harlequin kisses! I'd load up the whole squad with those weapons! The ability to rend is key with these guys, IMHO.

10 Fire Dragons: Way to big. I'd cut this down to 2 units of six if at all possible. I am tempted to put an exarch with heavy flamer in my units. I want to proxy that first, but it's just a thought, if not keep them normal dragons with no exarch but cut the large unit down to 2 smaller ones.

2x6 Jet Bikes: It seems like this might be the norm, but I want to try using units of Dire Avengers in wave serpents, with a Blade Stormed exarch. I like the way they look! I wonder if eldar will be able to pull off a Serpent of Doom tactic, like Tau do??

Wave Serpent: I'd probably drop this...They seem to die easily and I'd only use them with Dire Avengers as I said earlier.

Wraith Lord: I love, absoultely love the model, but I am not sold on them. I'd go all or none with these guys! I could invision three modified models in a city fight basing...John Scaffer (spelling?) did an amazing conversion for his Alaitoc army, which was quite inspiring.

2xFalcons: Nothing worng here, it's pretty much what I would do with them. I'd make them dedicated Fire dragon transports.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Chappy P!

Your points (for the Farseer at least) are a little wierd. It's sort of equalling out but the individual point values are off. Try to clean up your lists so it's easier to read.

If you are planning against Librarians with FotD, why no Runes of Warding? Since the Farseer has to be within 6" of the Wraithlord, why not Guide. The WL can throw down 7 shots, Guide seems like a good match.

Harlequin Kisses? This is what helps make them very attractive. I would not take them for every model, but 5 would be sufficient.

The Dragons will be one shot wonders. 10 is too many. They get out and severely hurt one Marine squad (example) or a piece of armor. Next turn they get lit up badly.

Falcons are nice, the Wraithlord I'm iffy on. With his weapons, it seems your Jetbikes already have that lane covered, but he is relatively cheap. Ehhh, go for it; he'll be near the Farseer anyways.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of synergy with the list. Playtest it and see how it goes. Good luck.

Run the points - the Kiss is included in his points. I like the build, however I'd drop the WL and some Dragons to make a second Harlequin unit. Good luck - the Eldar are a rough list to play with now.

What about 2x Farseers with Fortune who run with 2x units of Harlequins?

Another thing you might want to examine is the size of your Jetbike units. They are not going to shoot too much, and have the potential to be easily cut down. Try 2x of 4s. That'll save up the points (along with the dragons and WL) to run the second unit of Harlequins and another Farseer.

Then again, you might just be playing my list...

It looks like the farseer is only there to babysit the wraithlord? That's why he's so stripped down--he's just supposed to walk behind the WL and cast fortune until in range to throw the spear. Congratulations--you've spent 200 points on a unit that has the firepower of a 70 point vyper (or a 50 point warwalker), but who has a range too short to stand in cover, so can still be gunned down by a couple of rending hits from assault cannons.

In fact the whole army is like a buffet of different target types that different weapons can all shoot at once--a couple of lascannons to shake the falcons and keep them from shooting, a couple of lascannons or missiles to knock down the wave serpent and strand the fire dragons in the open (where heavy bolters can finish them later), assault cannons knock out the wraithlord, wait for the harlies to close to 18" and then advance and rapid-fire them to death before the assault, and ignore the jetbikes because they can't do anything, until everything else is dead then you can shoot down 2 jetbikes and send the rest fleeing off the board.

Yes I was in a hurry this morning and should have posted the list in a more readable format, my applogies it does look bad.
1. The farseer is footslogging with the harlequins who have harlequin kisses (the points are there, so is the points for a shadowseer so no one is seeing me past 14",  and the entire unit moves pretty quick resilient with a 5+ rerollable invulberable.
2. The Farseer does not have ruins of warding, I was thinking about it and generally speaking the 10 leadership he gives to the harlequins is good enough to have them not break if I am feared, and if my opponent is going after my jetbikes even this nerfed eldar codex list will still beat him up. So I think that it may not be needed, at least not in 1500pts.
3. I had no idea what to run with the 120pts left over so I bought the wraithlord, I'm iffy on him as well, but really don't see a better choice. Perhaps as suggested I run a smaller squad of firedragons in the waveserpent and another squad that gets a ride from the falcon. And take out the wraithlord. If I do that then I have enough points to give the farseer doom.

Flavius, my intention is to take a chance that the wraithlord will never fail his wraithsite, I'm sure that 1 turn in 6 he'll be stupid but I think I can live with that. Even if I had a warlock babysitting the wraithlord I'd feel I was wasting the min. 25pts on the warlock. I like the idea of having two smaller firedragon squads... that seems more viable. What would you suggest to make the army harder to hurt? The harlequins have a 5+ rerollable, the jetbikes turboboost or play the pop n shoot game and the falcons are the most indestructable unit in the game. I really don't see anything as "Come here and shoot me cause I'm a dumb player"

BTW as a side note, I took advantage of local tournament today and ran my old codex eldar for the very last time... Man that was fun. I had a great game against a marine player, the game seesawed a little bit but ended up a very strong win, I somehow and I'm still baffled by this... got tied up with a draw game against the lost and the dammed, and then with my starcannons still unnerfed wiped a deathwing terminator list off the board by turn 5. In my book, Eldar's last hoorah before I have to use the new codex. And the notoriaty of winning a 12 player tourny is nice too. (self congrats is off now, as I'm pretty sure under the new codex they'll have the same chances of tau at a tourny... not likely to win)

Any other thoughts... Whats anyones thooughts of running guardian squad with starcannon platforms inside waveserpents with starcannons, and using the falcons as heavy hitters against the big stuff? obviously a farseer with doom would be a requirement.

Can the Farseer benefit from Veil of Tears? I'm not sure. Plus, getting hit by FotD, you are trying to pass with an 8, not something I'd be too confident rolling.

The Wraithlord may/may not be able to keep up with the Harlequins and Farseer, which is important due to Wraithsight. I may play too conservatively to let him be off on his own.

I've tried Guardians/Warlock(Destructor) w/ Starcannon in a Waveserpent. It's fun, but I think I'd rather have the extra shots from a Scatterlaser, or even cheaper Shuriken Cannon. I'm not sure how competitve the unit is, but it was a nice surprise for my opponent.

Sorry, Sazzle, I didn't mean to imply that you were a stupid player. I was just kind of surprised at the way that your initial army list looked like it was giving every weapon in a stock marine list something to shoot at at the same time.

For example:

10 footslogging harlequins and an emtpy falcon = bad. The heavy guns can shake the falcon easily (with a small chance of killing or disabling it) and the light guns & flamers can move up to short range and take out the harlequins. This setup provides two different types of optimal targets for two different types of weapons.

but

6 harlequins riding in a falcon = good. The heavy guns may shake the falcon, but instead of having to hide for a turn the falcon can still do something: deliver the harlequins. The harlequins themselves are invulnerable to small arms fire and flamers while in the transport, and then invulnerable again after they get into close combat. The big gun doesn't stop the threat of the falcon (because of the payload) and you render the opponent's small guns useless.

Similarly, fire dragons are better in a falcon, but too vulnerable in a wave serpent because serpents are too easy to knock down. But a bunch of fire dragons can't carry an army--they need something else to follow up and protect them from counterassault. Something like harlequins in a falcon (fleet is too unpredictable to get the harlequins where you need them at the right time, assuming they even live, which they probably won't in the open).

Small units of Jetbikes with shuriken cannons are surprisingly fragile and can't acutally do much to hurt anything. If they just drive around the board and hide, then you're playing your opponent's whole army with 1550 worth of your army. There's no particular reason for an opponent to shoot at them until late in the game when other stuff has already been killed. But if you add a spearlock to that unit, suddenly they become a genuine threat to vehicles, walkers. Add embolden to keep them on the board or destructor and they become a threat to all kinds of troops.

I've done stupid plays in tournaments, like moveing my vypers 12" and realizing it was my ctm squad (painful!) Sometimes I'm dumb, but anyways... a spearlok as you have it, is 63pts a peice.... is it worth 63 pts? I'd have to chop out the questionable dreadnought and find 4 more pts (as the list is 1498) It seems pricy but I see the advantages. The other disadvantage is that the warlock makes the squad 7 members... do I try to get up to 8 or can I run 5 jetbikes with one being the warlock and still get the 2 shuriken cannons? I'll review that on my own. I'm just trynig to figure out what I do when I have to face off against an all khorne infantry horde list.... no starcannons is just mean :-(

63 points that makes a useless squad into a useful one is a good investment.

The warlock is worth more IMO than the second shuriken cannon. The bikes don't actually do anything--Eldar jetbikes don't actually do anything. They're just ablative wounds for the warlock and bodies for the scoring unit.