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On page 41 of the BBB it states that if you cause enough blows to a unit that matches the number of models, then the attacker gets to pick who has to take the first save.

Three questions: I saw a player claim that the way the rule was worded, you could only use this rule if the exact number of hits equalled the exact number of models, not more hits then models. I disagree but does anyone know if there is a consensus ruling?

2. What if there is no save? Say, a unit with all power weapons attacks another unit. The attacker gets to pick who dies first?

3. More a comment then a question. If the unit has a non base to base IC with it, this rule would not apply becase A. he is part of the unit but B. He can't be wounded as he is not BTB....yes or no?

1. Equal or more is what you need, tell the guy that's how it is.

2. This would matter if fighting against crisis or rubrics I guess (otherwise they're all dead anyway).

Force a wound on the team leader crisis or the powerfist. As you can't spread around wounds to avoid removing models, I assume the powerfist will have to die. There could be a situation (odd number of wounds) where the powerfist takes the last wound, that's fine, but I guess half the time you cause an even number of wounds and he can't be saved.

It gets iffy if you must remove the wounded powerfist in later turns. My club plays it that if a model is removed, it doesn't have to be the wounded model. So for example, the rubrics (with wounded powerfist) are rapidfired with a plasmagun and lose 2 wounds, you could remove a normal rubric and not the powerfist. If  the plasmagun only caused one wound, the rubric would die. This is a seperate issue however.

3. For combat torrent of fire, you use the models engaged in the combat. So if there were 4 termies and a master, the master and a termie weren't engaged, you'd need to cause 3 wounds to inflict a torrent of fire on an assault cannon model (you can't chose the master, no).

1) Page 41 states "one or more wounds on every engaged model" so your friend is apparently missed that little nugget.

2) That situation would only occur if evey attack made at that initiative step ignored armor saves. If it did, then yes your opponent chooses who takes the first (unsavable by normal armor) wound. If that model only has one wound he will be a casualty.

3) While blows are being struck, an IC is a seperate unit for being engaged (i.e. attacking and being attacked) and therefore he would not be an eligible target for a "torrent" attack allocation.

once again time to give your mate a slap. Thats "beefs" golden nugget right there.

on another note I did not know you could torrent in assualt I always assumed it was shooting phase only?

Yea...most of your questions are answered by the fact that the 'torrent of hits' rule is for shooting. also remember that while the attacker gets to pick a model that MUST take a save, the defender gets to choose which shot he saves against.

So, lets say your both playing marines. Your squad rapid-fires into his, and you have a couple plasma guns. So you cause 3 plasma wounds (ap2) and 5 bolter wounds (ap 4) to his 8 man squad. You nominate his sarg as taking one of the hits and must save. But HE gets to choose if it's a plasma or bolter shot that he saves against.

OOH I never knew that. Its a wonder How I ever win games, actually If I knew all the rules maybe I would win even more games

Posted By Sinjin on 11/15/2006 7:58 AM
Yea...most of your questions are answered by the fact that the 'torrent of hits' rule is for shooting.

It's in the shooting casaulty removal rules, which is used for assault also.  Thus, Torrent of fire can be used in the assault phase also.

Well, that's not entirely correct.

The Assualt rules have their own (slightly different) set of criteria for the "torrent" rule. . .mainly that it only applies to engaged models in the unit, and its determined per Initiative step.

It's also even harder to find then the shooting "torrent" rule so I'm not surprised when people don't know about it (its on page 41).

@Yakface You really know your rules? Out of curiosity did you write the rulebook? lol. Do you actuall play 40k? Are you this good with the other rules i.e fantasy, bloodbowl etc

Minor point, but you can't have a power fist on a rubric; you can put one on the sorc leading the squad, but he only has one wound anyway.

Wow that is a good point, however minor.