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I will make this a short post and leave the comments to the audience.

12 Guardian Jetbikes (264 pts) +  Turboboost + Fortune

To kill one (!) of these you need 16 Assaultcannonshots with BS4 on average.

( 2/3 to hit, 5/6 to wound, 1/9 to penetrate = 5/81 = ~1/16



 

Yeah, but why would you bother to shoot at them? They're not going to be doing anything useful while turboboosting around the board.

They do something:

- deny points
- secure objectives
- get close (specialised shooty units will not like this)
- get into position to fire their guns and jump 6" behind terrain next turn.
- deliver ICs
- povide a closer target for ICs to hide behind.
- force target priority checks
- block the path (to an exit ramp of your own or by the opponent for example)

So the opponent gets into a lose/lose situation. He cant shoot them, but ignoring them isnt great either.

I would charge them with dedicated H2H troops w/ jump packs or fleet.  Then you've got 10 guardians who presumably have ditched their farseer and will be toast if theyget close enough to get off more than a few shuriken cannon shots.

They sure die nice to assault troops though. Or are they getting close and still managing to stay 18" away from my assault troops?

Give that same squad (or a smaller one) a warlock with enhance. Now they can do more then just deny points but they can also combine shooting and assault to take on non-assault marines and the like.

Probably better ways to spend points (and money, oh so much money) but it's not as bad as it seems at first. Actually fairly comparable to assault marines MEq kills (if you figure shooting and assault and an enemy not in cover.)

the guardians move 30", assault squads move 18" ... tell me how you catch them again?

Against fast assault armies they should just shoot from 24" then roll back to 30" until the fast assault elements are all dead.

My initial excitement cooled down a bit after I realised that Shining Spears have very similar defensive qualitys while being way btter on the offense for only 13 additional points per model.

This aside we allways need troops, so one cant allways substitute against spaers.

The suggestion to assault the Guardians with specialized mobile assault units makes sense of course, but it also is kind of a compliment. Before I had the impression that Guardians die to anything.

Eldar troops as a whole can all be good, depending on how their used. Dire Avengers are pretty much cannon fodder when their just on foot, but with a Wave Serpant and Blade Storm, they make any player cringe in fear. Storm Guardians with a Warlock with Enhance are very very nasty. Scouts and Pathfinders are great for psychological warfare with their AP 1 ability. Guardian Jetbikes are great for gathering/denying objectives, or getting somewhere quick when something needs reinforcements. The only thing that I've seen as lack luster so far is the regular gaurdians. But if you have a bunch of higher priority targets, then the gaurdians can still pack a pretty solid punch. Especially if their carting around a scatter laser.

Eldar are very nasty now with the new codex. I've played 4 games against them, with 1 win, 2 losses, and 1 draw that should have been a loss. There is nothing in their army list that is useless anymore.

Uhm, you kill them the same way you kill regular marines: Weight of numbers. The more dice you throw, the more you will fail.....

I agree that guardian jetbikes are now a good unit, but it seems like a big group of ten with fortune isn't the best way to play them.  First of all, are there any shuriken cannons in the unit?  Secondly, this unit can't move 30" in one turn.  They either turbo-boost or move 12"+6."  If they turbo boost, a smart player can keep them from getting into H2H, but if they move in for the shot they are opening themselves up for serious retaliation.  Its hard to hide 10 bikes when you've only got a 6" jump, plus most armies have AP 2 guns that don't care about fortune and can move quickly enough to get an angle.  It seems like multiple smaller units of jetbikes could accomplish the same role, support each other, and be harder to take out.

What I would do:

1) shoot plasma at them

2) get into combat with them

3) ignore them

In no particular order.

The jetbikes work best in squads of 3 or 6 with maximal cannons. Warlock makes the squad way too tempting a target for points - he adds a big fat 45+ to the price tag (ow). As squads of 3, they are awesome. So cheap and so fast. 76 pts for a 12"+6" S6 gun with T4, W3 is the way I look at it kind of like a really cheap, weak, fast dakkafex Great for rear-armoring tanks out of nowhere, turboboosting and blocking exit hatches, scoring extra points in objective scenarios, chasing fleeting units, etc.

As far as nothing in the Eldar codex being useless anymore:
d-cannons (24" guess, killable by children with rocks)
warwarlkers (AV10 expensive walkers)
most of the special characters (too expensive and slow)
vypers (AV10 open topped and more expensive than a landspeeder)
banshees (why banshees over harlequins, ever?)
striking scorpions (S6 powerklaw? I hear a unit just begging to be mugged by a chaplain on a bike or a daemon prince or a flyrant that used to laugh at all of the above. Also, still very very slow).

Because (1) you can put 10 of them in a grav tank without using a heavy slot and (2) against doomed meq units they become more killy than harlequins.

Banshees + harlequins in the same army is stronger than harlequins alone. You send the harlies against the chaplain on a bike or daemon prince or flyrant, and the banshees against his/her/its minions.

I agree

10 Howling Banshees with Exarxh w/ Warshout and Executioner = 187 points

The unit will kill:

Regular Banshees
3 Attacks on the charge = 27 Attacks, 13.5 Hits (50%), 4.4 Dead MEQs (33%)

Exarch
3 Attacks on the charge, 1.98 Hit (66%), 1.3 Dead MEQ's

Total = 5.8 Dead MEQs, before Doom


6 Harliquins with 6 Kisses and Shadow Seer Upgrade = 162 points

The unit will kill:

4 Attacks on the Charge = 24 Attacks, 4 will Rend on Average leaving 20 Attacks, 13.2 Hit (66%), 6.6 Wound (50%), 2.178 Failed Saves

Total 6.178 Dead MEQ's


Now you can see that the Harlequins are better for their points but here is where Banshees shine. Banshees almost outnumber Halriquins 2 to 1. Banshees can take their own transport, you don't necessarily need a Falcon in an army you are fielding Banshees (though if you are fielding Wave Serpents you want Falcons). Banshees have a 4+ Save therefore they will last longer in a protracted combat than Harliquins (though Harliquins do have hit and run, they will still need to weather two rounds of combat or getting shot up). It is easier to buff Banshees than Harliquins (Warshout give the unit the ability to hit better some of the time and you drastically increase the units kill potential with doom, there is nothing that can buff the Harliquins Rending and Dooming the unit you charge if an only negligable improvement). Banshees are more reliable (they always have power Weapons, with Harliquins you pray you don't roll badly the one change you get to use them to their potential).

You could argue that Banshee cost go up because you need to Transport them in a Wave Serpent, I would counter that,in that you almost need a Falcon to Transport the Harliquins, though the Falcon has more battlefield utility and survivability, you are going to be spending have the game over extending the tank to get into a good position, Falcons are best staying back, denying VPs and getting Guided all the time. The Wave Serpent is a little more "disposable". Plus, Escalation will seriously hamper the Harlies in a Falcon whereas Banshees in a Star Engine Wave Serpent, will just gun it on the turn they come in.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/18/postid/119966/view/topic/Default.aspx

Keep this thread on topic please.

While 12-13 jetbikes are pretty hard, you also have to take into consideration the amount of space these take up. Even on the smaller flying bases, jetbikes take up alot of real estate on the table. Making maneuvering them difficult in the most optimistic of situations.

While you can field that many, I dont recommend it. Anything more than 6 is going to be hard to utilize. Especially if you think about COD.

Dakka is synonymous with mathhammer, but mathhammer cant quantify alot of variables that need to be considered. Such as unit size, play area, opponents, etc.

Jetbikes in small squads are still my fav troops choice though.