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Bla_Ze wrote:BRB pg 95 DEEP STRIKE "First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive, and roll the scatter dice."


BRB pg 13 TERRAIN TYPES - Guidelines on categorising terrain
...."Remember that other models, friends and enemies, also count as impassible terrain"...

BRB pg 14 IMPASSIBLE TERRAIN
"Models may not be placed in impassible terrain unless the models concerned have a special rule....."¨

Now no rule that has been presented changes this.

I can see the point you are making. Here are the only problems I have with your reasoning...

It would seem to me that if these restrictions were in place they would be reinforced in the Deep Strike rules, particularly with the apparent contradiction of the rules you listed by using the term "anywhere." Also, why are there units in the game that are clearly intended to be able to deep strike where there are units already?

No the deep strike rule does not grant them a exeption.

Becuase normal rules apply unless there is a another rule that specifically overrides that rule.

"Anywhere on the table" is providing you follow the normal rules.

"Anywhere on the table" seems pretty specific to me.

Your claim is that the rule against placing a model in impassible terrain overrides the rule telling you to place a model "anywhere on the table". You do realize that the only way that can be true, and the conditions of both rules be satisfied, is if impassible terrain is not on the table?

BeRzErKeR wrote:"Anywhere on the table" seems pretty specific to me.

Your claim is that the rule against placing a model in impassible terrain overrides the rule telling you to place a model "anywhere on the table". You do realize that the only way that can be true, and the conditions of both rules be satisfied, is if impassible terrain is not on the table?

Which would mean you could move under impassable terrain, right?

Bla_Ze wrote:Becuase normal rules apply unless there is a another rule that specifically overrides that rule.

But surely you can see that it can be reasonably interpreted that that "anywhere on the table" bit might override that movement rule?

The rules as they are written for Deep Strike keep models from entering play in Impassable Terrain or on top of Enemy Models due to the threat of Mishap, while allowing models that have special rules concerning Deep Strike such as the Monolith and Mawloc to function as intended.

I am going to start a parallel thread so we discuss the implications of deep striking there.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I am going to start a parallel thread so we discuss the implications of deep striking there.

G

well heck yeah!
clearly this horse hasn't been beaten completely to death...
sorry GBF,i don't mean to sound like an , but i think we're to the point
that GW FAQing it is the only solution. another thread with everyone yelling over and over
isn't going to solve anything. IMHO.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I am going to start a parallel thread so we discuss the implications of deep striking there.

G

While I would appreciate if everyone would indeed take the actual discussion to another thread, why not use the Mawloc thread already in use in this forum as really the issue mainly concerns the Mawloc at this point and time?

I wanted to start a new thread so I have the opportunity for a fresh slate to state my interpretation regarding how deep strike works with the Mawloc. It ties in directly with this thread and is a means to serve your (yakface) request that we discuss the poll elsewhere.

: )

G

A problem with the poll, as I see it, is the preface does not consider all the facts.

To summarize, the Deep Striking occurs in the Movement Phase of the game. As a result, the question is does consider whether Deep Striking adheres to the movement phase restrictions. That is, does deep striking occur in absense of other rules in the game which are considered to otherwise, always be in effect... such as, not moving / placing models in impassible terrain and not moving within 1" of the enemy.

As in politics, the answers to polls commonly can be tied to how a question was phrased, data that was given, and perspective of the answers.

Option B is the answer that closest resembles the RAW for Deep Strike while observing the always in play rules of impassible terrain, 1" of enemy, etc, IMHO.

Cheers,

tac

So what's the choice for "I'm fine if you place your model in the 2" space between models in my unit, but please don't balance your mawlock on my forgeworld DKOK."?

A

Was that in response to my question, Gwar?

If so, what is the response for "My GUO is sitting on your models and that's final!"?

Pika_power wrote:Was that in response to my question, Gwar?

If so, what is the response for "My GUO is sitting on your models and that's final!"?

Kick in the balls

What now this poll is flawed? Sure "all polls are flawed" that is the nature of them folks.

But let's give the people responding to the poll question the proper due here .. both sides have been given more than ample opportunity to lay out the case in a fair manner.

While the majority is in agreement with A there is as expected disagreement

Green Blow Fly wrote:No what the rule says is place the model on the table.

G

EXACTLY!, NOT enemy models, NOT hills, NOT on the base of an area terrain piece, NOT on the felt game mat, ONLY on the table...

If you aren't playing on something that can be called a table, you can't deep strike at all obviously.

Tactica wrote:
To summarize, the Deep Striking occurs in the Movement Phase of the game. As a result, the question is does consider whether Deep Striking adheres to the movement phase restrictions. That is, does deep striking occur in absense of other rules in the game which are considered to otherwise, always be in effect... such as, not moving / placing models in impassible terrain and not moving within 1" of the enemy.

what phase something occurs in is usually a red herring arguement, and although the 1" rule applies, it is nullified by "anywhere on the table" in the deep strike special rules.

Tactica wrote:A problem with the poll, as I see it, is the preface does not consider all the facts.

To summarize, the Deep Striking occurs in the Movement Phase of the game. As a result, the question is does consider whether Deep Striking adheres to the movement phase restrictions. That is, does deep striking occur in absense of other rules in the game which are considered to otherwise, always be in effect... such as, not moving / placing models in impassible terrain and not moving within 1" of the enemy.

As in politics, the answers to polls commonly can be tied to how a question was phrased, data that was given, and perspective of the answers.

Option B is the answer that closest resembles the RAW for Deep Strike while observing the always in play rules of impassible terrain, 1" of enemy, etc, IMHO.

Cheers,

tac

Therefore, C is the only logical conclusion, could someone in the B camp please explain how placing the model is movement but scatter isn't? It doesn't seem very consistent to me and instead imo reflects that the primary motivation is just to prevent the mawloc from deepstriking onto enemy models instead of consistently applying the rules.

Pika_power wrote:Was that in response to my question, Gwar?

If so, what is the response for "My GUO is sitting on your models and that's final!"?

Wobbly Model Syndrome. We don't actually put the model where there would be a significant chance of damage to models/paint and/or where it can't actually stand up. We play as if it had been placed there.

Mannahnin wrote:

Pika_power wrote:Was that in response to my question, Gwar?

If so, what is the response for "My GUO is sitting on your models and that's final!"?

Wobbly Model Syndrome. We don't actually put the model where there would be a significant chance of damage to models/paint and/or where it can't actually stand up. We play as if it had been placed there.

Wobbly Model Syndrome only applies to terrain, not to models as of p13. My GUO does not budge from his seat of Golden Daemon quality models.

Pika_power wrote:
Wobbly Model Syndrome only applies to terrain, not to models as of p13. My GUO does not budge from his seat of Golden Daemon quality models.

Technically you are correct. That doesn't make your statement or position any less ... impaired.

GL ever finding a game.

pretre wrote:
GL ever finding a game.

*slow clap*

Congratulations. This topic is one step closer to Deffrolladom. Would you care to try to use fluff as justification next, or would you rather go on about how I'm clearly rules lawyering and a WAACing TFG who should die in a hole?

Remember the side I'm arguing for here. You're the one arguing for a position not supported by the rules, as I have just proven with the WMS rule only applying to terrain. There are no provisions to let you deepstrike onto other models, and all of us are agreed that GW doesn't want a GUO crushing models left, right and centre. Occam's Razor means taking the path of least resistance. Sure, we could rule in your favour, then change the rules so that WMS applies to deepstriking units, or we could simply rule in my favour and decide that it's not an issue.

D.

Place the marker where any other model would be able to be/move. Roll for scatter. If it happens to get into impassible terrain, roll for mishap.

Well, if you plop your GUO onto a model, it will mishap and be forced to move. THERE IS NO SITUATION, EVER THAT WILL EVER RESULT IN A MODEL STUCK ON TOP OF ANOTHER MODEL! ROAR!!!!!

Klawz wrote:Well, if you plop your GUO onto a model, it will mishap and be forced to move. THERE IS NO SITUATION, EVER THAT WILL EVER RESULT IN A MODEL STUCK ON TOP OF ANOTHER MODEL! ROAR!!!!!

It mishaps after its rear wrecks the paintjob of the victim unit.

Pika_power wrote:

Klawz wrote:Well, if you plop your GUO onto a model, it will mishap and be forced to move. THERE IS NO SITUATION, EVER THAT WILL EVER RESULT IN A MODEL STUCK ON TOP OF ANOTHER MODEL! ROAR!!!!!

It mishaps after its rear wrecks the paintjob of the victim unit.

Wrong, it automatically mishaps. It will never sit on the model.

I think this thread has been asked and answered. Closing now as the flaming is going and I am in too good of a mood to swing the Hammer O Smoting.