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Gorkamorka wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:No, I am saying the FAQ only dictates how Orks deal with that rule.

Ramming is a type of Tank Shock is already in the BRB for every other race. The Orks have a FAQ that only addresses how they deal with it with deffrollas. To then step beyond just orks you then drift into RAI verus RAW.

How exactly? The ruling clearly clarifies a BRB rule where the RAW was hotly contested for months.
Are you saying that the BRB RAW is still arguably unclear on the ramming/tank shocking relationship and isn't what the faq says it is when playing with other races... just because the general clarification only exists in a racial faq?

It clarifies a BRB rule for Orks.

I am saying that a racial FAQ is just that, racial.

If you want to apply racial to the general, then one could easily state that the Ork FAQ allows DE to ram with a Torture Amp since generally, ramming is a type of tank shock per the newer Ork FAQ. However you can't since the Ork FAQ is for Orks and how they interact with the BRB rule and the DE FAQ is for DE and how they interact with the BRB.

Brother Ramses wrote:If you want to apply racial to the general, then one could easily state that the Ork FAQ allows DE to ram with a Torture Amp since generally, ramming is a type of tank shock per the newer Ork FAQ.

You could, but you would be incorrect. The Ork FAQ addresses the general interaction of Tank Shock and Ramming. The DE FAQ applies a specific restriction to the Torture Amp.

The fact that the Ork FAQ is newer is irrelevant.

insaniak wrote:You could, but you would be incorrect. The Ork FAQ addresses the general interaction of Tank Shock and Ramming.

That is where we disagree. In my view, it addresses the Specific Interaction of what happens when an Ork Battlewagon with a Deffrolla rams, mainly because it's in the Ork FAQ and it's talking about Battlewagons Ramming.

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:You could, but you would be incorrect. The Ork FAQ addresses the general interaction of Tank Shock and Ramming.

That is where we disagree. In my view, it addresses the Specific Interaction of what happens when an Ork Battlewagon with a Deffrolla rams, mainly because it's in the Ork FAQ and it's talking about Battlewagons Ramming.

Exactly. Even if there was another race that had a Battlestagecoach with a Rolldeffa, you could not use the Ork FAQ to justify it ramming.

Brother Ramses wrote: Battlestagecoach

Damnit, Now I want to make one, but I suck at modelling!

Gwar! wrote:

insaniak wrote:You could, but you would be incorrect. The Ork FAQ addresses the general interaction of Tank Shock and Ramming.

That is where we disagree. In my view, it addresses the Specific Interaction of what happens when an Ork Battlewagon with a Deffrolla rams, mainly because it's in the Ork FAQ and it's talking about Battlewagons Ramming.

The ruling addresses what happens when an Ork vehicle with a Deffrolla rams. The reason for that ruling addresses general rules.

That reason is what applies to everybody, because those general rules are the same for everybody.

insaniak wrote:The ruling addresses what happens when an Ork vehicle with a Deffrolla rams. The reason for that ruling addresses general rules.

That reason is what applies to everybody, because those general rules are the same for everybody.

So why is it in the Ork FAQ?
You claim that "this is how GW does it" but I have yet to see any form of proof.

Brother Ramses wrote:

Exactly. Even if there was another race that had a Battlestagecoach with a Rolldeffa, you could not use the Ork FAQ to justify it ramming.

Yes you could, assuming that the Battlestagecoach can Tank Shock. If it can Tank Shock, it can Ram, in the absence of specific rules saying otherwise. If someone asks why, you point to the Ork FAQ, specifically ". . .as Ramming is just a type of Tank Shock." That sentence is the justification for ANYTHING that can Tank Shock and has no specific rules prohibiting it from doing so, to ram, in ANY Codex.

As for your DE Raider example; as has been repeatedly pointed out, the Torture Amp has a SPECIFIC rules which prohibits it from Ramming even though it can Tank Shock. This overrides the GENERAL ruling that all vehicles that can Tank Shock can Ram. The example is therefore irrelevant, as the Raider can't Ram no matter what.

Again, if it is a General Ruling, why is it in the Ork FAQ? If you allow the Ork FAQ to be used with other Armies, then I want to use it to allow my Raiders to Ram, regardless of what the Dark Eldar FAQ says, because the Ork one says I can.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:

Exactly. Even if there was another race that had a Battlestagecoach with a Rolldeffa, you could not use the Ork FAQ to justify it ramming.

Yes you could, assuming that the Battlestagecoach can Tank Shock. If it can Tank Shock, it can Ram, in the absence of specific rules saying otherwise. If someone asks why, you point to the Ork FAQ, specifically ". . .as Ramming is just a type of Tank Shock." That sentence is the justification for ANYTHING that can Tank Shock and has no specific rules prohibiting it from doing so, to ram, in ANY Codex.

As for your DE Raider example; as has been repeatedly pointed out, the Torture Amp has a SPECIFIC rules which prohibits it from Ramming even though it can Tank Shock. This overrides the GENERAL ruling that all vehicles that can Tank Shock can Ram. The example is therefore irrelevant, as the Raider can't Ram no matter what.

No. You could point to the Ork FAQ and say, "That is how it MIGHT work". However, until your Battlestagecoach equipped army's FAQ comes out saying you could, you can't.

I agree again with you Gwar . . . it can't be proved.

But on the ramming/tank shock thing . . . it says that's how the rule works, as if it's obvious and would work for everyone like that . . . but unless it's in the BRB then it doesn't work like that, even if it's perfectly obvious that's how it should work.

So if that's how you understood the rule to work any way, and that's how your club or whatever play it then great. But if not, then there's no change, and so that's great too. Until there is a general ruling of it, then it in no way changes how ramming and tank shock link up.

Quite simple. As one codex in no way changes the rules of another. =D

Oshova

Gwar! wrote:Again, if it is a General Ruling, why is it in the Ork FAQ? If you allow the Ork FAQ to be used with other Armies, then I want to use it to allow my Raiders to Ram, regardless of what the Dark Eldar FAQ says, because the Ork one says I can.

It's in the Ork FAQ because the Deff Rolla is the item that made it an issue. Therefore, GQ clarified the general ruling in the same location as they confirmed that, yes, this general ruling does in fact apply to this specific upgrade. Makes perfect sense to me.

So, let be make sure; your argument is that you are allowed to pick which FAQs you want to apply, and disregard the others? No, sorry, wrong. If any FAQ is valid, all are valid. Equally, if you wish to disregard them, feel free to do so. . . but you have to disregard them ALL. No picking and choosing. Either all FAQs are valid, or none are.

And all FAQs being valid doesn't ever bring up the issues you keep screaming about. Specific > general, remember? Which is more specific;

1. Vehicles which can Tank Shock can Ram
2. DE Raiders equipped with a Torture Amp may not Ram, even though they can Tank Shock.

Gwar! wrote:So why is it in the Ork FAQ?

Because it's a ruling on the Deffrolla, made because the Deffrolla is the specific piece of wargear that people have been arguing about.

You claim that "this is how GW does it" but I have yet to see any form of proof.

You have access to the same FAQs as the rest of us.



Seriously, this has gone way beyond silly. Tank Shock and Ramming are general rules. A ruling that says that something works a given way because of the interaction of those two rules is going to apply to everybody because everybody uses those rules the same way unless they have specific rules that say otherwise.

If you really find the idea that a general clarification is made in a race-specific FAQ so offensive, feel free to ignore it for your own games. But I think this silliness has gone on for long enough.