Switch Theme:

Mother Abandons Kids, Encourages Others to do so...  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ph
Druid Warder





choices that develop our identity for one, choices that develop life skills for another

tiger mother enforces their own will on kids under the guise of protection and thus take away our choices to experience certain things

sometimes choosing to fail can be a very important character building moment but overbearing mothers will not allow that

abandon mother on the other hand take away the choice that the kids may have regarding their relationships with their parents thus eliminating possible emotional milestones

its hard to see the choices we make when they seem like givens. an example would be our relationships with our parents. the choices we make, when we actively choose to go to our parents (comfort, stability, advice) or actively move away from them (independence, rebellion), are usually tied with the milestones in our life

and sometimes, a parent being present means having someone there to save you or save you from yourself

when youre 20, 30 or 40 you have sufficient social and emotional interactions and life experiences to help you with how you live your life. its not often a choice we make will drastically affect how we percieve things or situations as we already have a foundation to rely on

not so when youre 5

edited for clarity

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/10 04:17:23


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Bakerofish wrote:choices that develop our identity for one, choices that develop life skills for another


Yeah but, how has that changed from any other age?

The rest of what you said is true, more or less, but I just don't see how it really helps deliver any understanding about this case. I mean, I could also start talking about... I don't know... self esteem, or hygiene or something and how the decisions of the two parents negatively impacted on the children.

It'd be true, technically, if I was sufficiently vague and imaginative, but it really wouldn't actually increase our understanding of the way these parents have chosen to approach the raising of their children. It'd just be placing some artificial set of concepts over the top of the discussion.

Whereas talking about parents putting their own ambitions ahead of their children does increase our understanding, because it's actually getting at the heart of what is going on. Then we can talk about how one parent had personal ambitions and chose to leave her children because of it, while the other had ambitions she wanted to see realised through her children, and believed them so strongly that she was willing to sacrifice or ignore the health and happiness of her children to reach them.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





im not really trying to shed some understanding over the mothers motivations as again theyre the only ones who can really justify that and the most important people they can justify that to at the end of the day is themselves. If they think theyre doing right then the rest of the world just doesnt understand them. They arent breaking laws as far as i can tell.

we can understand them but it still wont take away why we dislike what they do.

i made the comment to point out why both mothers inspire a lot of strong emotions in people

people make leeway to account for reality. a mom leaving a kid to work in a different country isnt bad if the goal is to provide for said kid etc.

both mothers effectively take away the choice we as civilized people expect the kids to have and do so willingly. its oppression in a sense.

generally, when people see other people, especially kids being oppressed...well we tend to react

as for this question:
Yeah but, how has that changed from any other age?


when youre 30 or 40 you know who you are and itll take a lot to make you question that.

when your self identity can change just by how you wear your hair one day means you havent fully developed your sense of self yet so any choice you have can still fundamentally change who you are.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/03/10 05:22:08


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Bakerofish wrote:we can understand them but it still wont take away why we dislike what they do.


If we can understand why someone does something, it may change what we think of their choice. We might come to like it more, we might come to like it less. I know that having come to understand mothers that drive their children in the past, I've come to dislike their parenting choices a whole lot more.

This in turn informs our own ability to make choices about our parenting, or any other related matter. Understanding the motivations people have for the things they do is very important.

generally, when people see other people, especially kids being oppressed...well we tend to react


Yes, but it still really isn't about choices, because all parenting, good or bad, removes choices from the children. You have to, because the child isn't capable of making a lot of choice for themselves. Removing the child's choice to have McDonalds for dinner every night isn't oppression, but good parenting.

If you insist on looking at it in terms of restricting choices, then it gets back to what choices these parents restricted compared to what choices are restricted by less contraversial parents. And that in turn becomes a question of why each parent made their choices. At which point you're right back to what I was talking about, the motivations behind the parenting decision.

when youre 30 or 40 you know who you are and itll take a lot to make you question that.


Oh, the age of the child! Sorry, I read that as 'the modern age' or something. Complete reading fail on my part.

Yes, finding your identity is very important at that age.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





sebster wrote:
If we can understand why someone does something, it may change what we think of their choice. We might come to like it more, we might come to like it less. I know that having come to understand mothers that drive their children in the past, I've come to dislike their parenting choices a whole lot more.

This in turn informs our own ability to make choices about our parenting, or any other related matter. Understanding the motivations people have for the things they do is very important.


Liking something doesnt necessary mean you understand it and vise versa.

i understand why. and you understand why. i think most people can relate to these people and can understand how important their needs are like being yourself and living your dream. everyone has needs like those so we can relate and understand at some level.

i think its the acceptance that we are having problems with. we know why they do the things they do but we still cant accept it as right or do so grudgingly.

Yes, but it still really isn't about choices, because all parenting, good or bad, removes choices from the children. You have to, because the child isn't capable of making a lot of choice for themselves. Removing the child's choice to have McDonalds for dinner every night isn't oppression, but good parenting.

If you insist on looking at it in terms of restricting choices, then it gets back to what choices these parents restricted compared to what choices are restricted by less contraversial parents. And that in turn becomes a question of why each parent made their choices. At which point you're right back to what I was talking about, the motivations behind the parenting decision.


maybe choice is not the best word here. english, second language, nuance lost. Opportunities to make those choices? That the chance to make the choices themselves are lost or taken away?

the reason i keep coming back to this is because if youre talking about concrete and tangible choices like what to feed a kid and how to clothe them etc. then i dont think people should have a problem with the mother because she didnt leave the kids out in the street and im sure the kids are pretty well-off and provided for.

i think its the intangibles and emotions that affect people here. It's like your brain freaking out going "arent you supposed to love your child? then why...."


Oh, the age of the child! Sorry, I read that as 'the modern age' or something. Complete reading fail on my part.

Yes, finding your identity is very important at that age.

Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Bakerofish wrote:Liking something doesnt necessary mean you understand it and vise versa.


Well, yeah, you'll note I already said that when I posted "We might come to like it more, we might come to like it less. I know that having come to understand mothers that drive their children in the past, I've come to dislike their parenting choices a whole lot more."

The point is that in coming to understand why they did what they did we can build a more informed opinion of whether we agree or not with their choice.

maybe choice is not the best word here. english, second language, nuance lost.


Ah, fair enough. I had wondered (I once asked on this site if English was someone's second language, it wasn't and they were quite rightly offended).

Opportunities to make those choices? That the chance to make the choices themselves are lost or taken away?

the reason i keep coming back to this is because if youre talking about concrete and tangible choices like what to feed a kid and how to clothe them etc. then i dont think people should have a problem with the mother because she didnt leave the kids out in the street and im sure the kids are pretty well-off and provided for.

i think its the intangibles and emotions that affect people here. It's like your brain freaking out going "arent you supposed to love your child? then why...."


It isn't about intangibles or not. The kids in one case were left with the Dad who presumably took good care of them while the mother paid child support, in the other case the mother certainly gave her children a good home and a full range of meals.

It's about most dialogue about parenting in the last generation or two being based around the idea that the most important thing a parent can do is love and support their child. Now we have a women who says the Asian way is to drive their child to succeed, and most people think that the parents goals should not be as important as the happiness of your children. Then we have a woman who says that if you're really not that into parenting just bail, it's better for you and the kids, and again we respond that the parents goals should not be as important as the happiness of your children.

It's just... choices aren't a useful way of examining that. Everything is choices.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ph
Druid Warder





yeah i guess it revolves around that doesnt it? Love

i was examining why i was affected by her choice and i found myself going back over and over to one question i wanted to ask:

"why dont you love your kids?"

and i KNOW thats not a fair question to ask because I know there wont be an answer thats going to satisfy me

i understand

but i cant accept.

and if everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes as love then i guess we really wont come to an agreement of whether shes right or wrong will we?

were trying to put a rationale around the presence or absence of a fundamentaly irrational and immeasurable concept.

its not about the justifications of her actions that we end up examining and looking for but how we fundamentally percieve the love of a parent to a child should be

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/10 09:17:21


Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

sebster wrote:You know what? I still like her better than the tiger mother.


Lord Scythican wrote:I am not arguing with you or the statistics. The medical fields of both autism and ME/CFS research are plagued by politics. This is to our detriment. It's hard to follow the evidence when reporting of findings is skewed by politics.


There has been immense research into this field now, and not one study of any decent standing has found a connection between vaccinations and autism. Not one.

The only politicis in this issue is from people who would rather believe something regardless of the findings of countless studies, developed over years and with millions spent on research.

The complaints don't even make sense any more, because the original theories believed it was due to mercury used in the vaccines. They don't even use mercury anymore (as supplies have diminished and substitutes are now used) but the believers continue to drone on.


You must admit, this thread has meandered like the Snake River hasn't it? Excellent.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Frazzled wrote:You must admit, this thread has meandered like the Snake River hasn't it? Excellent.


Pretty much. Kind of inevitable when everyone agrees the lady in the opening story is a bitch. We can argue about how much of a bitch, but ultimately that's just not that much fun, we gotta find something else to argue about.

So... the English teeth are pretty crap aren't they?

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

They are awesomely well designed for eating coconuts, though.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

English teeth Sebbie? Not getting that. If its in refence to an image on the initial post most images are blocked for me.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Kilkrazy wrote:They are awesomely well designed for eating coconuts, though.

Or eating an ear of corn through a chain link fence.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Arlington, Texas

biccat wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:They are awesomely well designed for eating coconuts, though.

Or eating an ear of corn through a chain link fence.



Worship me. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Manchester UK

biccat wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:They are awesomely well designed for eating coconuts, though.

Or eating an ear of corn through a chain link fence.

Being American, I'm surprised you know about healthy stuff like fruit and vegetables.

By the way, potato chips don't count as one of your '5-a-day'.

 Cheesecat wrote:
 purplefood wrote:
I find myself agreeing with Albatross far too often these days...

I almost always agree with Albatross, I can't see why anyone wouldn't.


 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Okay, so the male version of "Cougar" is now officially "Albatross".
 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: