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Chongara wrote:Blue eyes aren't the "norm*"
Being 6'+ isn't the "norm"
Liking the sound of nails on a chalkboard isn't the "Norm".
Being a genius isn't the "norm"
Being lactose tolerant isn't the "Norm"
Speaking French isn't the "Norm"

So what?


*assuming "Norm" here is being used to mean 'most common'. Rather than 'proper'. If being used to mean 'most common' it doesn't really have much value, as these examples illustrate. If being used to mean 'proper' rational evidence is needed to prove how it is harmful to the self or others.

Do you really, honestly think your examples are the same situation? If so I feel sorry for you.

Why should I provide "rational evidence". I made the claim. You debunk it! Your "rational evidence" thus far has been drivel. "Speaking French isn't the norm." Really? Are you being a wise guy or are you incapable of honesty in your intellectual pursuits?

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Science has no answer.

That is not strictly true.

Just like with any other behavior, no simple, single cause for homosexuality has been found; instead it is a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. Biological factors from the very moment the egg is fertilized, through the important stages of the womb, and in early developmental stages in childhood are extremely important, along with a very complex interplay of genetic factors.

And even with all of the these factors, some people who later find out that they're homosexual, nevermind those who never find out in their lifetime, still reproduce, and besides that, assuming it is a recessive trait with a wide variety of linked genes (it is), there's be no more reason that homosexuality would die out than, say, blue eyes.

In truth, there is a proposed evolutionary benefit-- homosexual members of the family group would be able to hunt, defend the family, farm, and craft items just as well as heterosexual members, but they would provide less of a drain on the group's resources due to not producing children. Therefor they are beneficial to the group.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Homosexuality is a deviation of humankind. It is not normal.

I don't know why it exists. No one does. Science has no answer.
Is it evolution trying to take them out of the gene pool?
Is it just a misfire of the mind?
Is it genetic?
is it learned?

We don't know.

But we know it is not the norm.
People can do whatever they want. They can be gay as grandma's hatband.
But you can never legislate acceptance.

On what exactly are you basing "The Norm"...?

For centuries a "Flat Earth" was the "Norm"
Slavery was the "Norm"
Women being denied basic rights was the "Norm"
Segregation was the "Norm"...

Just because an "Idea" is the "Norm" doesn't make it correct....

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:

Chongara wrote:Blue eyes aren't the "norm*"
Being 6'+ isn't the "norm"
Liking the sound of nails on a chalkboard isn't the "Norm".
Being a genius isn't the "norm"
Being lactose tolerant isn't the "Norm"
Speaking French isn't the "Norm"

So what?


*assuming "Norm" here is being used to mean 'most common'. Rather than 'proper'. If being used to mean 'most common' it doesn't really have much value, as these examples illustrate. If being used to mean 'proper' rational evidence is needed to prove how it is harmful to the self or others.

Do you really, honestly think your examples are the same situation? If so I feel sorry for you.

Why should I provide "rational evidence". I made the claim. You debunk it! Your "rational evidence" thus far has been drivel. "Speaking French isn't the norm." Really? Are you being a wise guy or are you incapable of honesty in your intellectual pursuits?

If you make a claim without rational evidence, there isn't anything debunk or even discuss. As for my evidence: take your pick.

Anyway, the statement that "Speaking French Isn't the Norm" is true where "Norm" is defined as "less common" That is, the statement:

There are more people in the world that do not speak French, than people that do speak French.

Is true. Just as the statement:

There are more people in the world who are not homosexual, than people who are homosexual.

is also true.

Neither of those two statements have very much value however, which was my point.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Homosexuality is a deviation of humankind. It is not normal.

I don't know why it exists. No one does. Science has no answer.
Is it evolution trying to take them out of the gene pool?
Is it just a misfire of the mind?
Is it genetic?
is it learned?

We don't know.

But we know it is not the norm.
People can do whatever they want. They can be gay as grandma's hatband.
But you can never legislate acceptance.

Ah, okay. Probably should wrap it up here folks.

Homosexual people are being accepted, more and more, into the society of today's youth. I live in Texas-- and yet a flamingly homosexual black boy was elected class president twice in a row in my junior and senior high school years. This was something like... six years ago, seven?

You may not accept homosexuals, but that doesn't mean that nobody will, or that society will never do so. Perhaps all the older people will never be able to do so, perhaps they're so stuck in the past that they cannot make friends with those different from them. But I like to think that I, and children of today's age of interconnectivity and social networking, are a little bit better than that.

Call it arrogance.

Chongara wrote:If you make a claim without rational evidence, there isn't anything debunk or even discuss.

Indeed. The onus is on the claim-maker to prove their point, not on everyone else to disprove it.

NO GAUIZ THE BIBLE SAYS NO SO NO.

"But, I thought there was no connection between Church and State...?"

LOLWUT? YOU BELIEVE THAT gak?

Oh, and if anyone actually thinks that gay people shouldn't be able to marry, you have lost all respect in my mind.

Either you are, #1, an idiot, or, #2, a religious fanatic, also known as, an idiot.

Karon wrote:NO GAUIZ THE BIBLE SAYS NO SO NO.

"But, I thought there was no connection between Church and State...?"

LOLWUT? YOU BELIEVE THAT gak?

Oh, and if anyone actually thinks that gay people shouldn't be able to marry, you have lost all respect in my mind.

Either you are, #1, an idiot, or, #2, a religious fanatic, also known as, an idiot.

I do recommend you go back and read the entire thread rather then spouting drivel that really has no relevance to the current discussion

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Homosexuality is a deviation of humankind. It is not normal.

I don't know why it exists. No one does. Science has no answer.
Is it evolution trying to take them out of the gene pool?
Is it just a misfire of the mind?
Is it genetic?
is it learned?

We don't know.

But we know it is not the norm.
People can do whatever they want. They can be gay as grandma's hatband.
But you can never legislate acceptance.

Why not? They are a group of people just like any other? Maybe they were born a little different, just a little off.

Do you believe that others with mental disabilities should not be able to get married? Because they are not normal?

Should two people that are autistic, who have found happiness together, not be allowed to get married? Because they are a deviation of humankind? Are they not people?

Are you saying that they are not Humans?

Everyone needs to step back a bit and realize this


is not a valid argument tactic. Refute a persons actual point not made up ones.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Homosexuality is a deviation of humankind. It is not normal.

I don't know why it exists. No one does. Science has no answer.
Is it evolution trying to take them out of the gene pool?
Is it just a misfire of the mind?
Is it genetic?
is it learned?

We don't know.

Look, this can't be a debate. Your position is simply too ridiculous. Instead, I'll just try and list as many of the errors as I can think of on the spot, so that maybe you can recognise you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and maybe you'll just stop talking.

So here we go;
Your assumption that science has no idea why homosexuality occurs is completely factually wrong.
Your unstanted assumption that a thing must have scientific purpose to exist is nonsense.
It is absurd to suggest someone can learn to be gay. Do you think if you were given morning lessons that in time you'd start to desire sex with men?
Evolution can't "try" to do anything. It simply is.
No-one is try to legislate acceptance. The homosexual community does not, in fact, give two gaks about what some random homophobe thinks about them. They want equal rights before the law.
There is nothing in being the norm that actually makes it better, or more desirous. The idea that every individual is free to reject or embrace any idea of normality and still be equal before the law is actually the whole fething point of modern society.

And besides, we DO know. It's just that it varies from person to person. For most who would actually define themselves as homosexual, it's probably biological-- a combination of genetics, embryonic/fetal development, and so on. There's been numerous documented things which contribute to homosexuality.

But not everyone defines themselves as such. A great deal of people are simply bisexual-- or perhaps they're more emotional-based than based on their partner's gender (IE, they're attracted to a specific person, who happens to be the same sex... or the opposite). You know, the old saying "I'd go gay for [person's name]". Or in the homosexual community, "I'd go straight for [name]" is probably more likely, heh.

Human sexuality is an incredibly nuanced and complex system, with uncounted billions of variables from the ten or so years before puberty effecting it, from genetics to hormones to fetal development to what the mother was eating at what particular time-- even including the mother's health years before the pregnancy-- to environmental factors, from those beyond our control such as natural disasters, radiation, pollution, etc to more commonly thought of ones such as society.

And we still haven't found everything there is to know on the subject.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:Homosexuality is a deviation of humankind. It is not normal.

I don't know why it exists. No one does. Science has no answer.
Is it evolution trying to take them out of the gene pool?
Is it just a misfire of the mind?
Is it genetic?
is it learned?

We don't know.

But we know it is not the norm.
People can do whatever they want. They can be gay as grandma's hatband.
But you can never legislate acceptance.

Ah, okay. Probably should wrap it up here folks.

Indeed. This thread is becoming piling on. Everyone will just have to wait until the inevitable thread in the next week or so, rehashing the same .