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Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

Ahtman wrote:Usually those poor are lead by a cadre of the rich (or elite at at least) though. The American, Russian, and French Revolutions were spearheaded by upper class thinkers that elucidate the cause.


Well of course, there is money and power to be made in revolution. There will always be someone to capitalize on it. The masses will always go back to being poor, you can't really have a country of just rich people, that would just mean everyone is poor, you always need a baseline.

I'm really wondering what the answer is? Does anyone think that removing the payroll tax cap is a good idea? I'm not a true economist, I am mostly familiar with the Austrian economics school of thought because I lean towards libertarian ideals. Cap removal is obviously not the only thing that needs to be done, but after some research it looks like it would be a game changer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 09:16:25


"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






The elite are usually the instigators of the revolutions though. At worst they are tapping into civil discontent and using it to their own ends and at best truly think they are trying to create a better place. It still requires small cadre of intellectual leaders and lower/middle class followers. I suppose it is a bit of a chicken or the egg question as both seem to be required for a successful revolution. Or the CIA bankrolling you, either is good.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Andrew1975 wrote:
Most revolutions succeed when the common (read poor)...


Common and poor are not the same thing. There are a lot of common Americans, but very few poor Americans.

Andrew1975 wrote:
...people take to the streets and refuse to be part of the social contract. Of course usually they are usually led by some rich person, but not always.


Damn near always. I can think of maybe...5? points at which the opposite was true, and even then we're talking about Che Situations (points at which people renounce wealth).

Andrew1975 wrote:
The poor are not really the hardest to keep in line until someone mobilizes them somehow...


No, the poor are really easy to keep in line.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

Common and poor are not the same thing. There are a lot of common Americans, but very few poor Americans.


Do you mean on a global scale? Because I see a lot of poor Americans, many that are deeply in debt with no prospects of ever getting out, which I consider being worse than poor because you have less than nothing. I'm not sure what you mean. Could you explain? What is your definition of poor?

The elite are usually the instigators of the revolutions though.

Usually this is only when they feel abused though, or there is some religious context (legitimate or not). I think the rich in the US are sitting pretty right now. The social contract is what usually gives them the ability to accumulate power and wealth. In general the rich survive on governmental stability and security, in the US especially. Well stability in the government they reside in anyway. No?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/04/08 09:34:00


"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Andrew1975 wrote:
Do you mean on a global scale? Because I see a lot of poor Americans, many that are deeply in debt with no prospects of ever getting out, which I consider being worse than poor because you have less than nothing. I'm not sure what you mean. Could you explain? What is your definition of poor?


Poor people live hand to mouth. Very few Americans do that. They might be in debt, but who cares? We don't have debtors prisons so the worst that can happen, really is a loss of credit.

Andrew1975 wrote:
Usually this is only when they feel abused though, or there is some religious context (legitimate or not).


Nah, that's not true. Or, if it is, then "abuse" is a highly subjective concept; ie. my "best friend" is "abused" because I speak to other people.

Andrew1975 wrote:
I think the rich in the US are sitting pretty right now.


The rich are always sitting pretty, that's part of why people want to be rich.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

I want to be rich, I'd have midget servants living in my kitchen cupboards to bring me my cans on call.

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






dogma wrote:No, the poor are really easy to keep in line.


The current wave of revolutions in the Middle East would seem to disagree with you. The revolution in Tunisia was started by a student. He was so poor he started selling fruit out of a cart, which was then seized and destroyed by the police. So he set himself on fire. 28 days later, the then sitting President Ben Ali was ousted.



And as a government contractor, I'm looking at the shut down in a positive light: "Days I don't have to put on pants."
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






There is a difference between the poor being easily kept in line and the poor being easily kept in line infinitely. They were kept in control for quite awhile and not every element of the events are completely known at the moment.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Government shutdown in less than 24 hours, meanwhile the Obamas go on vacation. I love 2011!

9.00AM: breakfast and a quick call to Al (Sharpton)

9.30AM: Speech on the merits of keeping your carbon footprint low, and how, if gasoline prices are high you should just get a better car.

9.53AM duck a call from Sarkozy

10.00AM: Veto budget

10.30AM: Catch the carbon spewing superjet for a quick weekend vacation with the family.

Oh its good to tbe the King!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Not like Obama can do much at this point anyway.

The tea party representatives aren't willing to compromise like the rest of the repug party.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 13:11:03


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Frazzled wrote:Government shutdown in less than 24 hours, meanwhile the Obamas go on vacation. I love 2011!

It's not like he's taken an active role at any point in...well, any situation. Heck, he didn't even show up at his own "I'm running for president again" party.

So I'm not sure he's really going to be missed.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





Yeah, you go tell your wife the vacation's off. Add in the fact the chick has the arms to beat her hubby to a blood pulp. Add in to pre teen girls.

And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.

Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Remember, it's basically the president's job to see that the legislature's instructions are executed (Thus the executive branch). He can't control the legislature except through the use of veto and lobbying-- the legislature makes laws and sets the budget de jure, not the president. He can urge them onward, sure, but it's still basically like herding wet pissed off cats who are in heat.

Some presidents have more de facto power than this because of their personal influence, but it's rather hard for Obama to have personal influence over the Republican party...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/04/08 13:00:56


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

What? thats so wrong its not funny.
1.He doesn't have to veto the budget extension.
2. The President typically introduces legislation, including the budget.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/our-government/legislative-branch

Some important bills are traditionally introduced at the request of the President, such as the annual federal budget.


He didn't. We're in this mess because he and the Demcoratic Congress didn't pass a budget last year when it was supposed to.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Obama did propose a budget. The legislature didn't vote on it.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Melissia wrote:.

douchebags


Can we all please refrain from making crass and needless and kind of childish comments like this with regards to those whose political views differ from our own please.

Much obliged.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Meh, sorry. I'll edit that out...

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Melissia wrote:Obama did propose a budget. The legislature didn't vote on it.

The Democratically controlled Congress didn't vote on it. Don't blame the Republicans for your mess.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:Obama did propose a budget. The legislature didn't vote on it.

The Democratically controlled Congress didn't vote on it. Don't blame the Republicans for your mess.

At the time the Democrats controlled Congress, the Republicans were being a bunch of meanie-heads. That totally excuses the Democrats for not passing a budget.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Connor McKane wrote:Less than 50% of Americans pay taxes. This is the 1/2 that is considered "Rich."

So yeah, lets tax the "rich" so 50%+ of those who don't pay ANY federal taxes at all continue to have a free ride...

This is why the govt doesn't have enough money to continue. If everyone paid thier fair share via a "Flat" or "Fair" tax then there wouldn't be such a short fall.

All it means is that those who rely on the "dole" so to speak, well...

"Dey wont be gittin dey gummint checks and hafta git off dey butts and mebbee get a J.O.B. fer awhile?"

And, honestly, ask yourself this: Did you pay any taxes at all last year, or did you get a refund for just about or more then you paid in Federal Taxes?

If you didn't then you know what it is like to pay taxes. If you did, then you are not paying taxes... simple as that. Instead of having the "rich" like ME, pay for YOU, how about you voluntarily pay taxes (yes there is a box on your tax forms you can check to have the govt withhold some or all of your refund)

If the 50% who pay nothing did that, there would be no problem.


As a former social worker, I can tell you there haven't been "gummint checks" since the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. Unless you're talking about TANF which has so many restrictions and pays so little that they'd make more money working part time at McDonalds.

You want to know what's wrong? The Earned Income Tax Credit. The government is actually paying people to have children they can't afford to feed. Why not have 3 kids when you know you'll get a 4,000 to 6,000 buck check every year and free housing and free food and even free medical assistance...just because you have a kid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 13:17:33


Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

Melissia wrote:Meh, sorry. I'll edit that out...


Thank you.

If people make that little extra effort, especially when debating with people of opposing political sensibilities it makes the whole process more rewarding for all.

... who knows, you might even save them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 13:19:23


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:Obama did propose a budget. The legislature didn't vote on it.

The Democratically controlled Congress didn't vote on it. Don't blame the Republicans for your mess.
I do blame republicans, but that doesn't mean I don't also blame democrats.

It's just that right now in particular it's the republicanss who are causing problems, even if the original problem was due to democrats sitting on their arses doin' nothing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 13:24:45


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

biccat wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:Obama did propose a budget. The legislature didn't vote on it.

The Democratically controlled Congress didn't vote on it. Don't blame the Republicans for your mess.

At the time the Democrats controlled Congress, the Republicans were being a bunch of meanie-heads. That totally excuses the Democrats for not passing a budget.

(evidently Frazzled has returned to the OT. That thundering you hear is a hundred million weiner dog paws coming, coming for YOU!)

Don't get me started on the Republicans. They're dicking around so they can kiill Planned Parenthood.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Overland Park, KS

I thought I read somewhere that he cancelled his trip, besides its not like it was to anywhere amazing I don't think.

Could be wrong though, can't find the story again.

All riders should be removed from the BUDGET, each of the riders should be a bill voted on separately. Its ridiculous that any social changes can even be put into the budget at all, imo.

If they really want, they should pass the budget, then they can waste all sorts of tax dollars arguing about planned parenthood in the weeks ahead.

   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

streamdragon wrote:
The current wave of revolutions in the Middle East would seem to disagree with you. The revolution in Tunisia was started by a student. He was so poor he started selling fruit out of a cart, which was then seized and destroyed by the police. So he set himself on fire. 28 days later, the then sitting President Ben Ali was ousted.


College students aren't poor, no matter how much they beg to differ. They're engaged by a system that requires extensive capital investment, even if it isn't theirs.

streamdragon wrote:
And as a government contractor, I'm looking at the shut down in a positive light: "Days I don't have to put on pants."


That's not poverty, you are eating, have eaten, and have no worries regarding where you will eat.

You're not poor.

Again, lots of people have definitions of poverty predicated on their own inconvenience, or social malady, these definitions are nonsense.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

daedalus-templarius wrote:I thought I read somewhere that he cancelled his trip, besides its not like it was to anywhere amazing I don't think.

Could be wrong though, can't find the story again.

All riders should be removed from the BUDGET, each of the riders should be a bill voted on separately. Its ridiculous that any social changes can even be put into the budget at all, imo.

If they really want, they should pass the budget, then they can waste all sorts of tax dollars arguing about planned parenthood in the weeks ahead.

While I agree in principle, Planned Parenthood expenditures are part of the budget. Again it would have been helpful had the previous Congress actually done its job.
But his vacation has not been cancelled. You'd think after starting War #3, budget fights, gas approaching $5 a gallon, and that whole economy is STILL in the crapper thing he'd around awhile...


I swear its like watching Rome right before the big breakup. The center cannot hold...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
The current wave of revolutions in the Middle East would seem to disagree with you. The revolution in Tunisia was started by a student. He was so poor he started selling fruit out of a cart, which was then seized and destroyed by the police. So he set himself on fire. 28 days later, the then sitting President Ben Ali was ousted.


College students aren't poor, no matter how much they beg to differ. They're engaged by a system that requires extensive capital investment, even if it isn't theirs.

streamdragon wrote:
And as a government contractor, I'm looking at the shut down in a positive light: "Days I don't have to put on pants."


That's not poverty, you are eating, have eaten, and have no worries regarding where you will eat.

You're not poor.

Again, lots of people have definitions of poverty predicated on their own inconvenience, or social malady, these definitions are nonsense.


Its a scary day when I agree with Dogma.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/08 14:13:07


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Overland Park, KS

Frazzled wrote:
daedalus-templarius wrote:I thought I read somewhere that he cancelled his trip, besides its not like it was to anywhere amazing I don't think.

Could be wrong though, can't find the story again.

All riders should be removed from the BUDGET, each of the riders should be a bill voted on separately. Its ridiculous that any social changes can even be put into the budget at all, imo.

If they really want, they should pass the budget, then they can waste all sorts of tax dollars arguing about planned parenthood in the weeks ahead.

While I agree in principle, Planned Parenthood expenditures are part of the budget. Again it would have been helpful had the previous Congress actually done its job.
But his vacation has not been cancelled. You'd think after starting War #3, budget fights, gas approaching $5 a gallon, and that whole economy is STILL in the crapper thing he'd around awhile...


While I agree it is part of the budget, it is very contentious, obviously. Why would they put it into the general budget that they are trying to get passed in barely any time? Oh that's right, they want to pass what they want without debate. Same thing with defunding HCR in there, it won't pass the senate or the white house with that kind of stuff. Why do these new guys love symbolic bills so much, they put the crap out there and KNOW it won't pass, but waste everyone's time and our tax dollars to do it.



   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Frazzled wrote:
While I agree in principle, Planned Parenthood expenditures are part of the budget. Again it would have been helpful had the previous Congress actually done its job.
But his vacation has not been cancelled. You'd think after starting War #3, budget fights, gas approaching $5 a gallon, and that whole economy is STILL in the crapper thing he'd around awhile...


I swear its like watching Rome right before the big breakup. The center cannot hold...


What I find hilarious is that both sides, even the one arguing for budget cuts, want to increase the budget; according to their proposals.

"We want 60 billion in cuts!" (30 billion if Blue Dog)

"The budget is 400 billion larger."

"No abortions!" (Some abortions if Blue Dog)


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee




Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:Obama did propose a budget. The legislature didn't vote on it.

The Democratically controlled Congress didn't vote on it. Don't blame the Republicans for your mess.


It was actually a Democratic majority Congress, not a Democratic controlled Congress. Big difference there.

When it takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, then one party does not actually control Congress unless it has +1 Congressman in the House as well as 60 Senators. And it was the Senate where everything fell apart. The Dems had a deal with McConnell in December to fund the government through the rest of FY2011; the Tea Party started raising hell, McConnell balked, and the deal fell through.

I am beginning to have a sinking feeling that part of this is a long-term strategy by the Dems to allow the country to see exactly how insane and out of touch the Tea Party is with reality, in an effort to shift public opinion in the next election. But that would require long-term planning and thinking, which I think the Dems are quite incapable of.

As for the off-topic issue of taxes vs. poverty...

I have prepared quite a few tax returns for people who earn 10-40 million or so, as well as for one C-level executive that made 100 million plus. The wealthy get to deduct things regular folks cannot, they get credits against their tax liability that regular folks do not. They are able to shelter money and move it offshore in ways that regular foks are not capable of doing. Even though the highest federal tax rate is 35%, most of the super-rich don't pay but somewhere between 15-20% as a marginal rate; and even most of the lower wealthy (in the 500k to 1 million range of income) don't really pay more than 20-25% as a marginal rate. I remember having to factor in the depreciation on the 50 or so horses that the C-level executive owned, as well as the huge lowered capital rate and qualified dividend rate on his monumental amount of investment income, as well as his deferred stock options that are taxed at a lower rate.

Even Warren Buffet, one of the wealthiest men in the U.S., has comented that it is inherently unfair that he pays a lower marginal rate in tax than his personal secretary. It is not really a matter of the "rich are evil, and the poor don't pay their fair share;" rather, it is that there is a fundamental inequity between the protections and privileges the rich enjoy versus the meager services that the poor are grudgingly doled out. The problem is that most Americans (if not all, besides a few tax attorneys and CPAs) are woefully ignorant of how the tax system actually works, the shell games that are played; and then in turn how this money is spent back out and in what proportions. Both ends of the spectrum have issues, and I have seen it from both ends: I have worked with a lot of wealthy clients in my former life with tax preparation and estate planning, and now I help administer disability and welfare payments to the poorest people in our society under federal programs. It is too easy for the rich to skirt by with as little obligations as they quite often have; and a lot of the rules governing who gets paid welfare and when are a little too lenient. But if I had to choose between having the completely destitute and poor starving in the streets, as well as the rampant crime that would ensue, versus the tax rates increasing 3-4% on the wealthy, I'll take the tax increase.


GKs: overall W/L/D 16-5-4; tournaments 14-3-2 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

daedalus-templarius wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
daedalus-templarius wrote:I thought I read somewhere that he cancelled his trip, besides its not like it was to anywhere amazing I don't think.

Could be wrong though, can't find the story again.

All riders should be removed from the BUDGET, each of the riders should be a bill voted on separately. Its ridiculous that any social changes can even be put into the budget at all, imo.

If they really want, they should pass the budget, then they can waste all sorts of tax dollars arguing about planned parenthood in the weeks ahead.

While I agree in principle, Planned Parenthood expenditures are part of the budget. Again it would have been helpful had the previous Congress actually done its job.
But his vacation has not been cancelled. You'd think after starting War #3, budget fights, gas approaching $5 a gallon, and that whole economy is STILL in the crapper thing he'd around awhile...


While I agree it is part of the budget, it is very contentious, obviously. Why would they put it into the general budget that they are trying to get passed in barely any time? Oh that's right, they want to pass what they want without debate. Same thing with defunding HCR in there, it won't pass the senate or the white house with that kind of stuff. Why do these new guys love symbolic bills so much, they put the crap out there and KNOW it won't pass, but waste everyone's time and our tax dollars to do it.



I'm generally not disagreeing with you. At this point save those fights for next year's budget.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
 
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