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You are not allowed to take any saves against DoG. If you fumble your attack, the model is gone, no tricks beside immortality allowed.

Well, I guess at least weird boyz can now hit planes with their zzap power. Everything else is really sad.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

Dr. What wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.

But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???

Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).

Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.

Incorrect, Main rulebook states Infantry models are the only things allowed in transports BW or not the declaration is a mystery to us all at this time but I imagine something in the near future might explain this.

Right, only infantry can embark on transports unless explicitly stated otherwise (for example, Jump Infantry is allowed on a Storm Raven).

However, super-heavy transports can transport any kind of non-vehicle model and walkers. When looking at the table for apoc, bikes take up exactly as much room as a very bulky model. I don't think there is any more than this to the update.

Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.

 Sovspot wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.

Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?

Correct, but you can't move more than 6" or attempt a ram when you want to disembark on the same turn, so it kind of evens out. Moving 18" twice works wonders if your opponent is castling up in a corner when playing one of the new deployments though.

Actually, I do believe that (transport) looted wagons would be all over the place if they could be taken as dedicated transports. Those skorchas you can put on them are quite sexy.

Pretty much. Also, shooting black over golden marines, as 3+/FNP is no longer as good as 2+ armor. Getting a unit of boyz joined by a warboss in combat with the sanguine guard might also help, because only one of the PKs can be challenged.

The Good Green wrote:I love the idea of the looted wagon. I'm taking one to get a bunch of 'ard boyz into the grit, while I give their trukk to some burnas. I agree hardily that looted wagons should be allowed as transports... maybe just for elites (and flash glitz). I can understand not giving lootas and burnas their own ride tho... bit of an auto-deathstar there.

Why? It's no more or less an auto-deathstar than Sternguard(or equivalent) in Rhino, Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent or Ogryns in a Chimera. I don't see why orks shouldn't have that if everyone but orks can get dedicated transports for almost every single unit entry. It's not like the looted wagon is better than other default transports.

Orkaswampa wrote:2 Dakkajets on a waagh would mess up a 30 man death company squad as well as your average loota fire.

Lootaz are really terrible at killing MEQ though, even more so at killing FNP MEQ. Rather aim them at the sanguine guard, as those usually cost more points and so you kill more point on average then when aiming at the DC. Always depends on what either unit is doing at the moment though.

Using the Waagh! to counter-charge the DC is also a very good idea, as you deny them both FC and Rage that way.

I have dropped them and replaced them with more boyz. It's really sad how much better that has made my army. Besides the nerf to the KFF and allocation, the two hull points really seal their fate. Any marine army simply tosses a couple of krak grenades their way, and they die, where they could keep khorne berzerkers busy for a few rounds before. Guardsmen or eldar simply disengage from combat if you charge them, a melta bomb usually means a dead kan, haywire grenades mean a dead unit. Gauss weaponry and high strength blasts vaporize them. Pretty much every rule change has turned against them.
They are too expensive for three rokkits that miss half the time, while the short range of the grotzooka tends to put them within range of a unit that can take them down in combat - which might be as powerful as space marine scouts.

the_ferrett wrote:Um.... KFF helps ENEMY units?

Unlike almost every other aura in game, the KFF has not been limited to "friendly units" "units from Codex:Orks" or "units in your army". The FAQ in 5th concerning this kind of abilities has never appeared in new the rulebook(unlike most other FAQ answers), and has not (yet?) been reprinted.

Considering that all our allies are considered enemy units, this might as well be intended, rather than an overlook.

If I'd ever have to attend a tourney at such low point levels, it would probably look somewhat like this:

- HQ -
Biker Warboss - He's a beast, and can take on most troops by himself, as well as any vehicle.
KFF Mek - Prevents focus fire

- Troops -
3x 20 Shoota boyz, Nob, BP, PK - Yes, I still believe in the power of the klaw. Sadly no spare points for 'eavy armor.

- Fast Attack -
Dakkajet, extra shoota - It's nigh invinicle at low point levels, too good to skip

- Heavy Support -
3x 3 Kannons. Can't beat their cost efficiency, and they are pretty decent all-round shooters.

You'll probably notice that I've skipped lootaz, but I really don't see a reason to fit them in. Kannons can handle vehicles and MCs if deployed agressively, dakkajet handles light armor and any kind of infantry(remember pinning!), the warboss takes on heavy armor and, when assisted by a boyz unit, characters and MCs.

Hide. He has no choice but being your warlord, so you shouldn't toss him and that VP away carelessly. On the bright side, many leader feats benefit him even when racing around alone. But you'll want to keep him around till the end of the game anyways, as he can contest or even clear objectives easily.

I usually only unattach him when he can make an assault move that locks him in combat on the same turn. Against walkers, MCs or beatstick characters it's more beneficial to bring the boyz along as additional wounds and challenge protection. Don't have yourself baited out into the open by a rhino parking exactly 13" away.

keltikhoa wrote:I still cant believe cover save for deff rolla.... BRB says no cover saves for hits in melee. what do they honestly consider a Deff Rolla hit to be??? a shooting attack?!?

They probably realized that jink wouldn't work otherwise. It's not that big of a deal though. Vehicles don't get cover from area terrain unless 25% is hidden, so unless they are obscured for some reason (KFF, smoke launchers) it is very unlikely that a vehicle will ever get a cover save against the rolla outside of special wargear and jink. Any infantry models were already entitled to use their armor save against the deff rolla, so unless you run over units like boyz or gaunts, the extra cover save does nothing. Outside of area terrain, being 25% hidden from a battlewagon standing right in front of you is close to impossible anyways.

Anvildude wrote:I see it as a Field effect. It's not a Bubble, or a Dome. It's more like how you can feel electricity for a certain distance from a charged object- a field. It's not focused in any one area, but is infused throughout the effected area, and 'grounds' through living tissue (or cyborgs or metal dudes or whatever), which is how it extends to entire squads.

The KFF is not a distinct piece of wargear, every one is a unique piece. Fore example, lore describes the Arch-Arsonist of Chartokk carrying a KFF - actually a looted forcefield generator original part of an eldar space ship that even blocked blows in close combat. I also remember reading about a big mek whose KFF was sort of a tesla coil, zapping bullets and missiles out of the air. And last, the KFF shown in the DoW PC Game provided every ork in range with a personal force field - it kind of created a bubble around everyone getting close enough to the big mek carrying it.

No matter how you look at it, it's ork high-tech, so it doesn't have to make sense in the first place.

That would not be accurate fluff though. Ork technology works better than it should, but it's not completely disfunctional like most people keep saying.
A human could probably pick up some of the shootaz and fire them two or three times before they jam, explode, or the recoil rips their arm off. Ork technology works better in ork hands, but it still has to work in the first place.

The "ork tech is magic!" front doesn't have a footing in fluff though

That opinion pretty much sprung from non-ork players hearing orks talking about their armies.

Makumba wrote:

This does not mean that an ork mek could nail a peice of rusty iron to a burger grill and because he believes it can destroy the world, it will

untrue . if the waaghh is big enough with enough boyz pumped up , it would .

Source?

Why does Mekboss Buzzgob bother with the wiring of his eye of gork and looting better engines from imperial vehicles for his gargant if that were the case?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TableTopJosh wrote:
Hey so this discussion got me thinking about a few things that orks can do in sixth edition. Warbosses have always been great at crumping and when accompanied by a nob,who can protect him from challenges, he gets even better. Orks can also very easily abuse the new force org at 2k points because of their horde composition. So why not abuse it to take our cheapest and most efficient generals, Warbosses? Also someone pointed out the combination of kannons and dakkajets. It seems like a good combination, both eat light armor, are decent at killing enemy flyers and kannons are super cheap. Anyways here is a list idea, not sure how competitive it is, but I feel like it could get the ball rolling on how Ork's can abuse their new toys and org charts.

Spoiler:

2K Orks
HQ:
3x Warboss Pk, Cybork
Big Mekk KFF, burna

Troops:
2x 20 shoota boyz
3x 10 slugga boyz (making room for the boss), 3x Nob PK, BP
3x trukk

Elite:
12x burnas

Heavy support:
2x BW, DR, BS, RPJ
1x BW, BS, RPJ
3x 3 kannons, extra ammo runts in each group (had 12 extra points exactly )

Fast attack:
2x dakkajet, extra suppa shoota

I know this is an army list, but it involves a lot of the new changes to orks in sixth edition (flyers, boost to artillery, force org, challenges, flamers) and i was wondering how this list looks and if it really plays to orks strengths in the sixth edition or not. (I was also considering dropping the Big Mek, and the two DRs to add a third flyer and 1 mekk to the burna group, just to have better protection against flyers).

I have tried that, but my experience is that there aren't enough things on the board worth getting crushed by the warboss. That's not my final conclusion though.
Taking more battlewagons instead of trukks would be better though, keep in mind that your opponent can bring twice as much of hus battlewagon-stopping units as well.

TableTopJosh wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering, since I havent played too much 6th editiont myself, if people still bring as much anti av 14. I feel like less people are bringing mech, and that helps BW lists. I could be wrong, I haven't played too many armies in the new edition.

This is true for meltas(espeically the suicide variants), but not for lascannons, lances or rail guns. In addition, high-strength blasts got a lot better at shooting vehicles, so look out for those, too.

MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote:
.. well, at least I got inspired to make another mob of 10 Nobz with Big Choppaz. to accompany my very successful other Choppa Nobz + Boss.. now I can field the following:

Wagon + Rolla + Kannon
Boss + 10 Nobz + Painboy + Waargh Banner + All Big Choppaz

Wagon + Rolla + Kannon
Boss + 10 Nobz + Painboy + Waargh Banner + All Big Choppaz

Theres a Powerklaw and some Kombi Skorchas lurking in there too.

All of which comes in around (ish) 1k... I think on the small 4 x 4 foot table the local store has it should have some fun. I'm planning to use this in the next game so will let you know how it goes.. and yeah, it's not that competitive.. but it is freshly painted and thats what matters to me!

Have you tried just using regular choppas instead of big choppas? In my experience they are about equal since you no longer need big choppas to kill vehicles, but regular choppas don't cost extra. I think they are only worth their points on nobz wielding combi-weapons, since those lose their slugga.

Assuming MEQ, 3 Attacks wounding on 2+ cause half a dead marine (.55), four attacks wounding on 4+ cause about a tenth of a marines less casualties (.44). I don't think that's worth five points. Besides, most units should be getting crushed by nobz either way.

 Sovspot wrote:
In all honesty, I don't see any real reason to field regular nobz.

One reason would be getting the fourth battlewagon for games below 2000 or that 1999+1 nonesense.

MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote:
Lifta Droppaz are mega deadly.. no roll to hit YAY!!!

Incorrect, the lifta droppa has to hit on 4+ or has no effect at all. The latest rules for the lifta droppa are found in IA: Apocalypse Second Edition.

as regards Nobz Mobs with Big Choppaz it is probably worth mentioning that most the time I face other Orks or Guard so the 3+ save doesn't factor in to the equation..

The save value has little to do with it, hitting three times vs hitting four times is the key. Against guard the choppas even wound on 2+/3+ so the gap is smaller.

S7 on the charge is great for hacking down light to medium walkers and the Boss mixed in means even AV14 is threatened...

Sure, but do you really need ten of them? I'd bet half as many would do just as good.

and as I said, its not for the competitive value that I behold my Nobz so highly.. its cus they look so damn cool wielding massive choppy chain blades above their heads!

Agree, but you did ask for advice
All I'm doing is supplying it. What you do with it, is none of my business.

 KingCracker wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Assuming MEQ, 3 Attacks wounding on 2+ cause half a dead marine (.55), four attacks wounding on 4+ cause about a tenth of a marines less casualties (.44). I don't think that's worth five points. Besides, most units should be getting crushed by nobz either way.

Again, I dont actually run Nobz, BUT at least taking big choppas give you more versatility with the unit. They can actually bring down vehicles without having to glance the piss out of them.

This is exactly where I'm coming from. I run nobz all the time (as bikers or regular), usually fielding two PKs and an even split between big choppas and choppas. In almost every single fight against a vehicle I had in 6th, either the choppa nobz and the painboy took down the vehicle before I rolled the big choppas, or the klaws totally tore it apart if they got to strike. If nobz charge any vehicle, even if it has rear armor 11, it's dead, and big choppas really never added anything but overkill, which sometimes even lead to an explosion on top of a wrecked result, causing unnecessary wounds.

What if (Big what if here) they are assaulted by a walker? Or something with a high toughness? Then what? Again, assuming there ISNT a PK in the mix. With all those attacks....your going nowhere, where as my unit of bigchoppas can still chuckle and put holes in things

I'd argue that's its your own damn fault for not bringing a pk
But seriously, against a AV13 walker you'd still be going nowhere (curse those damn soul grinders), even if you charged them for some reason. And once you've failed to take it down during your first turn, S6 isn't going to scatch their paint anymore, while they smash 30 points of nobz whenever one of their attacks connects. All walkers actually good in combat either have AV13(soul grinder, furioso, ironclad, bjorn) or hit so hard that nobz shouldn't be remotely near them, like DC dreads or (if rumors hold true) mauler fiends. So it really comes down to beating deff dreads (and we all know that stopping them does not involve tossing a deathstar at them), and marine dreads which didn't trade away their DCCW. If you find yourself in combat with one of those for whatever reason, you would probably have been better off spending 25 points on a PK rather than on five big choppas. All other walkers both fold like wet paper to nobz (some of them even to boyz) and should be taken down by lootaz anyways, to prevent them from shooting your stuff.
A wise ork player once told me to not spend points on making a unit mediocre at something it usually sucks at. It's probably the best advice given to me ever.
Nobz suck at fighting walkers, even if you spend as many points as possible, they still aren't great at it.

Just because you don't like the rules doesn't make them any less official. Plus, the rules are for the lifta droppa weapon, not just the wagon. The nerf was needed, considering that any hit basically auto-destroys any vehicle in game now.

If you want to use old rules, that's your business, I hear people are also still using the old tyranid or CSM codices.

But, unless your opponent agreed with you on it, using outdated, more powerful rules is no less than cheating. Claiming that an obviously intended change is a "mix-up" even more so.

The rules for the lifta-droppa have changed, deal with it.

Considering that his is a thread about 6th Edition Tactics for everyone, outdated rules and house-rules should stay outside.

 Bonzofever wrote:
1/ My opponent and I came to an agreement. No cheating, sir, just an agreement.
As far as I'm concerned, there are too many issues with Apocalypse games. Everything is overpowered.
This is why I didn't want to spend too many lines on my Apoc battle report, I saw that coming right from the start.
So take it easy, please. It's just a matter of finding a way to have fun with big armies.

Mind you, I did not accuse you of cheating. I merely stated that using the old rules in order to get the more powerful version of the lifta-droppa without your opponent's consent would be cheating.

2/ I didn't claim the new rule for Lifta Droppa was a mix-up, I wanted to point out some typos and errors that shouldn't exist when you have to pay for rulebooks.
Let's face it though. GW gave more love to its outdated rulebooks than the latest IA codices. Evidence?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not clear to me how Flakka Trukks and Flakka Trakks work.
P43, Flakka Trukk doesn't have any Transport Capacity BUT they have a Ramshackle special rule.
PP46-47, Flakka Trakk. Transport Capacity: The Flakka Trukk has a transport capacity of 6. Wargear: Two Big Shootas. WTF?
I hope that explains my use of "mix up" and "slapdash job". No offense.

To be fair the Aeronautica is a terrible book, that's not even worth the paper it's printed on. Luckily us orks weren't victim to the biggest f***-up, them slapping super-sonic on every single flier in the book. Ironically, super-sonic disallows entering hover-mode, making every single flying transport useless.
Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Edition a lot less so, except for some formatting errors, which (sadly)are quite common across all FW books.
Flakka Trukks are Gun Trukks with a big gun choice (in this case the flakka gun), and thus lose their transport capacity. Ramshackle works exactly like for normal trukks. They can still fly across the board and explode in random places, just like an empty trukk would.
Flakka Trakks are Big Trakks with a big gun choice (again, the flakka gun), reducing their transport capacity from 12 to 6. Big trakks come with two big shootas standard and then you add the flakka gun.
This is the Flakka Trakk model, just add the flakka gun:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_VEHICLES/ORK-BIG-TRAKK.html

Anyway, this is not the topic at hand. My original point was: if you play a Stompa in 6th, fill it with 2x5 Burna Boyz (including 6 Meks) + 1 KFF Big Mek.

You could also fill it with three mekka dreads


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sovspot wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
or that 1999+1 nonesense.

ALL OF MY RAGE

Until anyone posts an actual overpowered list without a major flaw at 2000 points, that house rule is nonsense. Also, don't spam.

Bonde wrote:Does anybody have any thoughts about my idea of running a shooty BW with an assaulty one? I haven't even purchased a second BW yet, so I can change just what I want. Thanks in advance.

Short answer: The killkannon is a weak, short.ranged, overcosted weapon that will never be worth its points, even if you do hit that tactical squad without cover. Without even thinking, I know dozens of thing I'd rather spend that 60 points on. If you want a shooty battlewagon get either four big shootaz or rokkits and then your choice of kannon or lobba. Other than that I don't see a flaw with your idea. Keep in mind that all weapon upgrades can be stuck on the battlewagon without glueing them in place, so feel free to experiment.

whembly wrote:Now that there's some tolerance with allowing FW models in Tourny/friendly games...

Has anyone thought about using Squiggoths? Maybe put Lootas in there?

T6, W4... can never be shaken....

Hmmmmmmmm *pondering*

EDIT: fixed typo

There is a guy over at The Waagh! who owns a whole squiggoth herd, and always does ridiculously good with them, even though he is far from a competitive player. Smash and Hammer of Wrath should only have improved that list.

Math-hammering it, you get a trukk (T6 is pretty much equal to A10) with an additional "hull point", 5+ armor and no damage table (and its drawbacks, like explosions) in exchange for 10 Points, 2 models transport capacity and the big shoota. On top of that it can dish out quite a beating in close combat, as long as you don't pick a fight with WS5+ models, it hits those on a 5+. Due to the latest FAQ it is pretty good at destroying vehicles, too, as you get 3 smash attacks on the charge (3 halved = 2 +1 for charging). For just 50 points, it's a great deal, even if it uses up heavy support slots. It's still an all-or-nothing thing, a single squiggoth is going to be just as useful as a single battlewagon. Other than battlewagon it should work quite well in a footslogging list though.
Since the latest rules have doubled the costs of the big gunz upgrades on squiggoths, I wouldn't recommend using them, a BS2 kannon is not worth 20 points. And yeah, I'd probably put lootaz (shooty) or nobz/MANz inside(assaulty). Burnaz might work, too, but any other units aren't that useful at 10 models.

Dr. What wrote:
Where are the rules for Squiggoths?

I've always wanted to scratch some mechanical-esque ones to use as Trukks/Battlewagons.

Most recent one are found in Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Edition. The only difference to older rules (like IA:8) is a heavy increase on the point costs of the big gunz upgrades.

The book I mentioned above has added "Can be used as Heavy Support choice in any Codex: Ork army". Before IA:Apoc SE there was no such option.

The gargantuan squiggoth obviously is still apoc only.

Considering that I get to place half the terrain on the board, I usually put a huge ruin right on the edge of my deployment area and put them there, if I deploy second, I sometimes even put them out in the open across from something I want to shoot down ASAP, like a manticore. You'd be surprised how well 3+ armor on those kannons does.
Being on the upper level of a ruin also works great to keep assault units busy. After all, they have to get out of the ruin again after they have wiped out your 60 points of gretchin.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
but if you put the kannon at the front, wouldnt that mean it takes wounds first, which means that if the enemy shoots any antitank weapons at it they can kill it quickly?

I bought 5 extra grot krew for my kannons so I had 8 T7 meatshields to catch wounds before anything would even hit the kannon. Worked great for me. Is sticking the gun up there with the risk really worth the +3 armor save

Just put one kannon in front, and leave the other in the back If he shoots anti-tank he kills one and is then shooting gretchin. If he doesn't... well T7 W2 3+ doesn't exactly die fast.

 Ailaros wrote:
I guess the moral of the story is that if you're going to move 18", move 19" instead. At least that way you'd be velocity locked in cruising speed.

By the stealth edit on the recent BRB FAQ, you'd have to go 36" if you moved at cruising speed before.

 Ailaros wrote:
The stikkbombz bitz look so cool though. Unless I'm wrong, there are some models that get them for free, so at least you have a chance to model them.

Warbosses, Stormboyz, end of list. I just have them modeled on boyz/nobz/vehicles. It's not like anyone outside of ork players know what those are

If you're fielding two FOC there really is no reason to pick trukk boyz over a fourth battlewagon with boyz. Better target saturation, larger mob, more deff rollas.

Yeah, after the initial 6th-hype the ork community seems to be falling asleep. Many people aren't that fond of the new dakka-orks, and even I find myself preferring doing something else over playing 40k right now. Winning games without a single assault feels wrong - and boring.

 Ailaros wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:It's why i decided to do the biker army, as that army seems to get around the limitations on assault fairly well. If I had been planning on green tide though, or had committed to it more, i would be very angry.

And this is key. Foot guard could be very choppy in 5th ed, but once 6th ed rolled around and killed power blobs, well... there wasn't anything else that they could do to be choppy as basically the entire rest of the codex is more or less gunline.

Foot orks could be very choppy in 5th ed, and now that 6th ed killed the slugga horde, well... they have MANZ IN CANZ, and bike mobz and deffkoptaz, and trukk spam.

If you want a choppy horde in 6th, until new codices come out, you're screwed. If what's important is choppin', though, orks can still do it, just not in the same way as before.

Unlike guard, every single sentence of fluff in our codex is about charging into combat, or shooting while charging into combat, or charging into combat while shooting. Everything in the ork codex is about close combat. We can't do close combat anymore. Outside of the three flavors of nobz, none of our units should actually assault anything. The equivalent would be telling guard player to play a close combat army now.
And from the games three games I have witnessed, trukk spam is all but dead - too many points of failure. The requirement of assaulting in pairs means that any failed charge instantly means you lose a unit, and have another unit standing around waiting to be shot. This usually results in a two for one trade, and you tend to get one or two of those in every game.

 y0disisray wrote:
I think Orks did in fact get help from 6th edition just not in the traditional way that Ork players are used to playing. Massed shooting is where its at right now as Overwatch is amazing with Orks due to their gross number of shots. It's rare for me to assault anything because I usually want to shoot them and then Overwatch them while maybe taking a few casualties during their shooting phase. If they do decide to assault me between Overwatch and a good base number of attacks I should be able to win a lot of combats. The only static shooting I really use in my army are lootas becasue everything else like boyz/warbikers/dakkajets are always on the move. I've been having a great time with the new changes but I guess it's really not for everyone.

This. I have a higher winning quote than ever before - but I'm not having as much fun as before.

 Ailaros wrote:
But what do you do about the new helldrake? Dakkaguns don't work against it because of AV12, and klaws don't work against it because you can't assault fliers. Even lootas are going to struggle here, as it's still hitting on 6's, and it's still AV12. Meanwhile, they will destroy anything orky (including lootas), and seem basically designed to stop ork bike lists in their tracks, what with their S6 Ap3 ignores cover positioning flamer template of doom.

I mean, AV12 fliers are the most powerful thing in the game at the moment generally speaking, and we just got another one thrown at us. Seems like it would be tough, especially for a bike list.

Why wouldn't the dakkajet work against it? I have blown quite a number of storm ravens and vendettas out of the sky by loss of hull points. Obviously, you should get fighta ace for it, but on your Waagh!, you aren't that unlikely to simply blow one out of the sky.

Option two: Bring your own helldrake, and chaos bikes


Oh, and as for assembling the boyz: If you have boyz boxes, build shoota boyz. If you want slugga boyz, buy AOBR orks off ebay for a fraction of the costs you'd pay for boyz boxes.

From what I gather, he already has boyz boxes and is asking about how to build them.