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 whembly wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.

But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???

Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).

Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.

Dr. What wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.

But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???

Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).

Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.

Incorrect, Main rulebook states Infantry models are the only things allowed in transports BW or not the declaration is a mystery to us all at this time but I imagine something in the near future might explain this.

I'm guessing some kind of new Ork transport.
Maybe a flyer?!

 matphat wrote:
I'm guessing some kind of new Ork transport.
Maybe a flyer?!

Possibly i heard about a leak where air fortresses, and other models were getting added to orks.

TedNugent wrote:
"Cover saves may be taken against the Deff Rolla."

What? How? It's a giant spinning roller wheel of death. It's designed for the purpose of destroying obstacles, and they're telling me you can take cover saves against that? Lol.

Billy the intern was allowed to write the FAQ it seems...

Been going threw some of the other FAQs. We lost some cheese but so did some of the other xenos armies... big surprise right... but here is one of note -

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Not sure if anyone has had many problems with Dark Harlestar lists but that helps a little

Last I checked in the FAQ, Nob bikers at least are infantry now. Reason why is they changed their entry when they removed the character.

It's on page 2, here's the entry word for word

"Wolf Guard, Nobz, Nobz Warbikerz, and Crisis Shas'Vre that lead a unit (for example an Ork Nob leading Ork Boyz, A wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters) Have the unit type "infantry, Character"

So at the very least, a nob leading warbikerz should be able to board correct? Also, if I remember right, Warbikerz and Nobz Warbikerz are both listed as "infantry, bikes" in the back of the 6th ed book.

If this was true, then yes, I guess you really could load them up, if you decided you cared about that I guess you can hide them in a battlewagon or something to protect them from shooting now.

Not that you really need to protect them.

They can soak up anything but S 10 fire like a sponge (especially if it doesn't ignore cover)

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

Dr. What wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.

But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???

Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).

Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.

Incorrect, Main rulebook states Infantry models are the only things allowed in transports BW or not the declaration is a mystery to us all at this time but I imagine something in the near future might explain this.

Right, only infantry can embark on transports unless explicitly stated otherwise (for example, Jump Infantry is allowed on a Storm Raven).

However, super-heavy transports can transport any kind of non-vehicle model and walkers. When looking at the table for apoc, bikes take up exactly as much room as a very bulky model. I don't think there is any more than this to the update.

Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.

 keltikhoa wrote:
Been going threw some of the other FAQs. We lost some cheese but so did some of the other xenos armies... big surprise right... but here is one of note -

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Not sure if anyone has had many problems with Dark Harlestar lists but that helps a little

would you believe they are still trying to say it works? lol bending the rules still no matter what GW says... i laughed when they tried to abuse power weapons for howling banshees and I'll laugh again when they try this one with me as well.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.

Wait. They can only get out if the vehicle moved 7". Plus a 6" disembark move. Plus 2D6" charge. How is that any different to boyz?

 Kharrak wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.

Wait. They can only get out if the vehicle moved 7". Plus a 6" disembark move. Plus 2D6" charge. How is that any different to boyz?

7" for the vehicle's movement + the size of the bike (length, so let's say 2"), that's 2" more, + 12" of a regular move + 2D6.

21 +SD6"

Dr. What wrote:

 Kharrak wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.

Wait. They can only get out if the vehicle moved 7". Plus a 6" disembark move. Plus 2D6" charge. How is that any different to boyz?

7" for the vehicle's movement + the size of the bike (length, so let's say 2"), that's 2" more, + 12" of a regular move + 2D6.

21 +SD6"

Hold on there. Passengers disembarking have to end with the ENTIRETY of their base (not just the back) within 6" of the vehicle's hull. That is their "regular movement". Then they get to charge 2D6".

It's exactly the same as any other unit disembarking. The speed of the bikes doesn't come into play here, since you are still restricted by the 6" disembarking range.

If the nob biker is infantry it isn't a bike, so it will only have 6'' regular move. 12'' was only given as the unit type.

 Kharrak wrote:

Dr. What wrote:

 Kharrak wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.

Wait. They can only get out if the vehicle moved 7". Plus a 6" disembark move. Plus 2D6" charge. How is that any different to boyz?

7" for the vehicle's movement + the size of the bike (length, so let's say 2"), that's 2" more, + 12" of a regular move + 2D6.

21 +SD6"

Hold on there. Passengers disembarking have to end with the ENTIRETY of their base (not just the back) within 6" of the vehicle's hull. That is their "regular movement". Then they get to charge 2D6".

It's exactly the same as any other unit disembarking. The speed of the bikes doesn't come into play here, since you are still restricted by the 6" disembarking range.

Im agreeing with this completely. I dont see how you can obviously cheat by pulling a move like that. Its pretty black and white in the rules on how to disembark from a transport

This was changed, then? I know 5th Edition specified that 'within x inches' meant that only part of the base needed to be 'inside' the radius.

Yup, models must be completely within 6" when disembarking (3" for emergency disembark).

 keltikhoa wrote:
Been going threw some of the other FAQs. We lost some cheese but so did some of the other xenos armies... big surprise right... but here is one of note -

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Not sure if anyone has had many problems with Dark Harlestar lists but that helps a little

They still get to use Prescience though.

Again, just look at the diagram they drew out on whatever page disembarking is on. It clearly shows the bases of the models inside the 6 inch radius

I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

So are regular warbikers any good this edition? I'm looking to make a biker army, or at least one that uses a good amount of them, and was hoping they're still pretty good in 6th.

Anyone have any experience with them yet?

Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.

 Sovspot wrote:
I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

Depends what you want them to do. One big change is that unit like marines with krak grenades will pop it in cc pretty damn easy now. If you just want it to transport and then you don't care that's fine but if you want it to hang around and do stuff you need to keep that in mind with how you move it around the board. Another thing is if it explodes it's no longer st3 but 4 which is a big difference for light armor unit's probably won't hurt MANZ much but boys or burnas will suffer. Lootas can sit in one now and snap shot on the move which is nice. Also you can load it out with lots of shootas or ML's and snap shot them all on the move but it's allot of points in something not to hard to take out.

Wagons as delivery platforms are probably better than before as a you need four glances to halt it, rather than a single lucky roll. Against non-AP 1/2 weapons they are more survivable against side/rear shots.
Support wagons (loota wagons or FW variants) probably do better because they aren't getting close to the front; the opponent will have to come to them more.

Where things are a little bit shaky is things like the burna wagon. This generally relies on the vehicle surviving most of the game at the front lines. HPs make this a dangerous thing to attempt.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So are regular warbikers any good this edition? I'm looking to make a biker army, or at least one that uses a good amount of them, and was hoping they're still pretty good in 6th.

Anyone have any experience with them yet?

I only know from using the Warboss and deffkoptas with him as a unit, but really statline wise, Koptas are pretty similar to bikes, the only real difference is they are +1W and their shots have longer range. But I can say, if your using them to shoot the hell out of things their shooting is pretty impressive. Having TL bigshootas(the DAKKAgun is that but with a shorter range) really can clobber a unit, even MEQs drop from the shots. So as a shooting platform they are pretty nice, though personally I like using Koptas for that instead as the extra range and 2wounds is worth the +10pts IMO.

As far as assaults and wounding goes. Its nice having them be T5 I can tell ya, that just makes anything str5 or less struggle to wound, and anything NOT str10 irritated (for koptas mind) So they can weather a pretty impressive amount of shots, and the 4+ cover save is obviously another thing to make them tougher. In assault, again str4 and under struggle, but this is where they are weakest, because they still die like boyz, and all those extra points really start hurting. So Id say use them as a mobile fire base and only assault if its a last ditch effort. Id personally let units assault them if possible because TL weapons are the tits for snapfire.


So Id say, run them, see how they work for ya. Because in 5th, I almost never ran koptas. In 6th, Ive played only 2 games without them, their shooting potential is just badass.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dribble Joy wrote:
Wagons as delivery platforms are probably better than before as a you need four glances to halt it, rather than a single lucky roll. Against non-AP 1/2 weapons they are more survivable against side/rear shots.
Support wagons (loota wagons or FW variants) probably do better because they aren't getting close to the front; the opponent will have to come to them more.

Where things are a little bit shaky is things like the burna wagon. This generally relies on the vehicle surviving most of the game at the front lines. HPs make this a dangerous thing to attempt.

Ill agree with this. Ive been running a burna wagon lately and I do get nervous once Im about to close in for the burninating. Its still a very potent tactic, but I have played a game where the wagon went up in flames right before they got to the intended target. So now more then ever, be aware of what your moving that wagon to.

Jidmah wrote:

Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.

Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?

pepe5454 wrote:

 Sovspot wrote:
I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

Depends what you want them to do. One big change is that unit like marines with krak grenades will pop it in cc pretty damn easy now. If you just want it to transport and then you don't care that's fine but if you want it to hang around and do stuff you need to keep that in mind with how you move it around the board. Another thing is if it explodes it's no longer st3 but 4 which is a big difference for light armor unit's probably won't hurt MANZ much but boys or burnas will suffer. Lootas can sit in one now and snap shot on the move which is nice. Also you can load it out with lots of shootas or ML's and snap shot them all on the move but it's allot of points in something not to hard to take out.

As I said, all I did was rush up the board and disembark. If the battlewagons survived I would them deff rolla things if they haven't done so already. Anyway, from what you two tell me I think I will be fine. With lootas, do they have advantages over the Dakkajet? Other than st7 anyway.

Going to try getting my kommando horde to work next 2k game I play. 3x15 kommandos, bp,pk nob in each, along with 2 rokkits each. Just hope there's some suitable piece of terrain within 7" of the boatd edge they can hunker down in when they arrive. Will also try a 5 rokkitkopta formation to help bring down any vehicle my 2 dakkajets have trouble with. Condidering to throw a saw in there just in case...

I hope no-one here have missed the zogwort discussion due to the new FAQs here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/475545.page ?

 Sovspot wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.

Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?

Correct, but you can't move more than 6" or attempt a ram when you want to disembark on the same turn, so it kind of evens out. Moving 18" twice works wonders if your opponent is castling up in a corner when playing one of the new deployments though.

 Sovspot wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.

Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?

pepe5454 wrote:

 Sovspot wrote:
I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.

They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.

Depends what you want them to do. One big change is that unit like marines with krak grenades will pop it in cc pretty damn easy now. If you just want it to transport and then you don't care that's fine but if you want it to hang around and do stuff you need to keep that in mind with how you move it around the board. Another thing is if it explodes it's no longer st3 but 4 which is a big difference for light armor unit's probably won't hurt MANZ much but boys or burnas will suffer. Lootas can sit in one now and snap shot on the move which is nice. Also you can load it out with lots of shootas or ML's and snap shot them all on the move but it's allot of points in something not to hard to take out.

As I said, all I did was rush up the board and disembark. If the battlewagons survived I would them deff rolla things if they haven't done so already. Anyway, from what you two tell me I think I will be fine. With lootas, do they have advantages over the Dakkajet? Other than st7 anyway.

Well besides the str 7 your lootas will be a little more durable and nice thing is you can turn a couple into mek's and keep adding hull points back on the wagon so it can be very hard to kill without and explodes result. Down side again though is if it does explode it's going to kill allot of your lootas. You probably don't want to move it much except to get a clear shot or avoid something charging the BW so your lootas don't always snap fire. If the BW does blow up from shooting your lootas that were in it now have cover at least =P Dakkajet is really nice as well but I always still take lootas to but not always in a wagon it was just another option I was throwing out there for you to use with your BW's

Ive played 2 games with burnas inside of a BW with 1 being a mek and riggors on it. And it must be my luck, but my opponents so far either glance it to death and its wrecked in 1 turn, OR they blow it up. So, so far, I havnt been able to repair any hull points