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ninjaska wrote:
But attack from boardin plank would be against rear armour, which is mostly AV10, on the other hand Deff rolla woud be, mostly, hitting front armour. And since there is more Predators and anihilation barques than Razorback...
And if I understand it correctly, there is no jink/cover saves from power klaw.

Mutated: isn't Death or Glory with melta or Chainfist deadly for BattleWagon with Deffrolla?

DoG w/ chainfist is a skurry one.

hitting av10/11 with a S9-10 PK is preferable IMO to a deffrolla vs. higher front or side armor where you may encounter a jink as well to avoid taking any hits at all.

its just different uses for different things.

I bring a boarding plank on trukks, and deffrollas on wagons and use them for different purposes in same list

I believe that Boarding Planks hit the side they're on? Not sure though.

Anvildude wrote:
I believe that Boarding Planks hit the side they're on? Not sure though.

I think you confused Boarding Plank with Wrecking Ball.

Thank you guys, for your feedback. I have another question/observation.
Many of my collegues, who plays Marines, changed their PowerFists on Sergants, to combi-weapons which means, Ork Nob with 'Eavy Armour and PowerKlaw, has pretty big chance to survive a challenge, and moreover, kill enemy character. So, meta changing, brought back PowerKlaw Nob. Did you notice it in your gaming groups?

ninjaska wrote:
But attack from boardin plank would be against rear armour, which is mostly AV10, on the other hand Deff rolla woud be, mostly, hitting front armour. And since there is more Predators and anihilation barques than Razorback...
And if I understand it correctly, there is no jink/cover saves from power klaw.

Mutated: isn't Death or Glory with melta or Chainfist deadly for BattleWagon with Deffrolla?

Those are all artillery vehicles (just like russes, fire prisms or other similar vehicles), usually hiding somewhere in the very back of your opponents army. I don't really count on my battlewagons getting there, and if they do - just disembark and wreck it. You battlewagon is probably showing its rear to a whole lot of enemy guns - better get out before you suffer from the S4 explosion. It's also really easy to ram side armor instead of front armor.

Both chain fist and melta hit front armor, and despite the odds, 8+2d6 quite often fails to stop the battlewagon - and even if it does, the additional 2d6 S10 hits can often kill enough models to make a DoG unattractive. Especially with chainfists (or monstrous creatures), people usually just get out of the way, to charge the battlewagon next turn.

I also would support boarding planks on trukks and the rolla on the battlewagons.

noob question:

how far can you move and still use a boarding plank?

Anvildude wrote:
I believe that Boarding Planks hit the side they're on? Not sure though.

I think this is true?

Nope,

Planks can be used within 2'' of the vehicle.

Balls and Claws are within 2'' of the ball or claw.

Not the side of the orky vehicle- rather, the 'hits' happen on the side of the enemy vehicle closest to the Orky vehicle. I think.


and Klaws and Balls are underrated, I think. For 5 and 10 point upgrades, they can be gamechangers, and are much more 'accurate' than most Orky stuff.

Hits from Planking are rear armour. They are treated as if the model doing the planking is assaulting the vehicle in question. Walkers are as if you were assaulting said walker, but you can't be locked in combat as a result.

Balls would be resolved against the facing they are in, i think.

I like to run my BW with Klaws, Balls and Rollas. Call me old fashioned

What I want to know is if it's allowable to buy more than one Ball or Klaw, to have the extra coverage. You'd only get the benefit of one, but you could, for instance, have a Ball on either side, or a Klaw on both the front and on the back...

Not as far as i know, but i doubt it's expressly forbidden either..

The codex says : May take any of the following...

Might be edging into TFG territory to have a dozen ball arms sprouting from your BW though.

Personally i'd allow it in a friendly game, as long as i could too. I might also lobby for being able to take a Rolla on each of the facings

If you pay the ten points for each ball, then sure. Buy as many as you want. But don't try to stack eight on one side and say you can hit me with all eight of them or something crazy like that.

Nah. Rules preclude that- "A vehicle with a... may make a..."

Nothing for duplicates. Just like the Flash Gitz weapon addon wording. I still think, though, that the Gitz ought to be able to use more than one of each kind of upgrade, though- I'd pay the 180 points for 3 Nobz with Strength 10 Assault 3 weapons that ignore cover...

Ok, I'm coming back to Orks after a long hiatus and I'm sort of soaking up what's changed with the Ork meta.

I'm annoyed that I have to shell out for the flyer expansion in order to use the dakkajet - while I generally don't like fliers, that mini is too nice not to add to my collection at some point.

My main question is: is: are slugga boyz as awful an investment as they look in 6E? I have a black reach box's worth of them I'm unsure wht to do with. While they were (imo) sub-optimal compared to shootas before, the changes wrought by 6E make them look absolutely dreadful while shootas look better than they used to what with overwatch.

As an aside, are there any rumours as to when there's likely to be a new codex?

 A Kvlt Ghost wrote:
Ok, I'm coming back to Orks after a long hiatus and I'm sort of soaking up what's changed with the Ork meta.

I'm annoyed that I have to shell out for the flyer expansion in order to use the dakkajet - while I generally don't like fliers, that mini is too nice not to add to my collection at some point.

My main question is: is: are slugga boyz as awful an investment as they look in 6E? I have a black reach box's worth of them I'm unsure wht to do with. While they were (imo) sub-optimal compared to shootas before, the changes wrought by 6E make them look absolutely dreadful while shootas look better than they used to what with overwatch.

As an aside, are there any rumours as to when there's likely to be a new codex?

Slugga boyz works good for trukk/Bw rush but Shootas works best for BW / greentides.

Yeah shootas got a boost but the rest of the dex is about the same. We suffer from blasts/ignores cover and mech. Though allies/ADL have helped on that front.

On the 40k relase rumor thread we may see SM get a new dex in November and then it's a crap shoot for Orks/IG/Nids etc.

Sluggas are still good stuff in trukk lists, but garbage for a foot slog IMO

Sluggas and shootas were about equal last edition, with shootaz slightly ahead. The new edition made shooting a lot better (less cover, overwatch, snap fire), while close combat got worse/more unreliable (near useless Waagh!, overwatch, random charge distances, removing models from the front). So without doubt, shoota boyz are always superior to slugga boys outside of trukks.

You dont "have" to get dakkajets btw. I never use them despite owning 3 and the white dwarf rules (feth that stupid 40dollar sink for planes).
My issue with them is Lootas do every bit as much damage as they do and tend to last longer because of the position theyre in. Also cheaper for the amount of fire. Yes, its a different FOC slot, but unless youre playing a rather large game you wont have points for much more than 1-2 groups of lootas and 2-3 dakkajets; and as we all know, boyz before toyz and we'd have too many toyz in most games if we did that.
Always found it weird that they only pump out 9 TL shots that are str6, which is kinda low even for orks for such a high price and fragile unit. Now if it was AP3, i'd gladly take the Str6 over higher strength because now orks have something we really lack outside melee - anti marine.

On another subject...

Been thinking. I started playing some straightup Tau games instead of allying them into my orks/vice versa and noticed i am always using every foc slot. Whenever i play orks, i usually have no FA or Heavy unless im just dinkin around. And it hurts me whenever we get Big Guns Never Tire or The Scouring because i dont get bonus scoring units (though i HATE IT when i get Scouring when i got 3 dakkajets, basically free 3 points for my opponent).
Has anyone found any lists that have any credibility to them that use more than troops/elites? I know Kannons are a dirt cheap heavy choice, i just usually dont have the spare points without cutting boyz down (which is a nono as 80 in a 1750pt game is low as it is)

SAG gives good anti MEQ or TEQ, despite people being afraid of those mishaps.

If your meta allows FW (which it should) the Grot Bomm launcha is quite possibly the most cost effective anti Marine (and anti-Manty) unit in the game

For me Kannons/Lobbas are an auto-include in every list that doesn't use Heavy. They are literally so points cost efficient that it's worth dropping whatever it takes to get them in there. What they aren't though is slot-efficient ~ for the slot they take up they're not *that* great. So if your not using Heavy, good god give these things a try and they won't let you down. At the very least, take solo kannons with maximum ammo runts for even higher value for points.

Same goes for Grot Bomms and FA. They're a great counter to artillery heavy lists like Manticore spam IG, and even if there aren't any such targets on the field then theres always something else to bomb with a highly accurate S8 AP3 barrage pie plate.

actually every time i have fielded kannons i didnt have ammo runts, oddly enough. Two groups with ammo runts and a couple extra dudes is the same cost as a third with none of that fancy stuff. And i have to admit, that game was funny. Three groups of 3 kannons guarded 2 groups of lootas....my opponent did NOT want to get anywhere close to that ball of dakka rofl (though a bit pricy)

My issue is i just love bikernobz too much. Bikernobs + 4 groups of 20 boyz + 2 groups of 10 lootas usually takes most of my points if not all of it, and aside from shaving some lootas i just dont see a way to cut points (and i always feel uneasy shaving lootas). That one game i had with kannons was an oddball 1999pt game, i usually go 1500-1750
EDIT: And after saying that i throw a 1750pt list together and managed to get 3x 3 Kannon batteries with no problem. The hell have i been getting? lol i need a game now.

btw, jumping on the boardingplank/deffrolla bandwagon:
I love planks, theyre cheap and for trukks atleast add another level of use because S3 explosion thanks to Ramshackle isnt that big a deal, and i'd rather zoom up, plank a random vehicle too far up, and stay in the vehicle to force at least 1 round of wasted shooting to get my boyz out. Usually only lose 2-3 boyz to trukk explosion, and if i planked something theyre going to get a LOT more damage than that if i just disembark, not to mention odds of the vehicle i just klawed up exploding in my face which is just as bad.
However they arent that viable anymore because vehicles except fliers are usually rare, and when seen theyre popped by our Lootas before we even get there. Planks only work against vehicles, i really wish it expanded to MC as well hehehehe that would be glorious to let the klaw slice up a MC without worry about a challenge or being smashed first. And it makes sense to me, because i envision the boarding plank as just a platform that drops and the ork uses it to extend his reach, slicing the other vehicle as they drive by. Not actually stopping and "boarding" it since theres no hidden combat going on between passengers (thatd be hilarious though)

Deffrollas give your transport more use than cockblocking vision once you empty your boyz out. And as stated before, S4 hurts...i tend to lose 6-9 orks when a wagon blows up. I dont want to be in that thing any longer than i have to. The AP- and no anti-cover makes killing MEQs impossible but its still a better chance than not doing anything, and its definitely crazy strong against other vehicles.
Also, dont forget if they DoG a deffrolla they take 2D6 wounds whether the DoG was successful or not. That alone makes people not want to do it.

"Lobba"
I played a game against IG using 3 units of 3 lobbas and 2 units of 5 Lootas, and they were amazing ... the lobbas killed so many IG infantry and heavy weapon teams (mainly no cover and no armor with AP5 with indirect fire) and damaged so many vehicles (their side armor of 10 is hit by lobbas and so easy to glance) that he just freaked out. The lootas glanced/wrecked so many Chimera while hidden in ruins (even when gone to ground they still hit on "6") and the Lobbas were too far away (48" range is amazing) ... Nobzbikers, meganobz and a BW full of boyz were the primary targets of the IG ... and Buggies (I just love them) are so cheap to block enemy vehicles (he's either wasting shots on them or shooting real targets and getting blocked by these pesky little fellows).

"FA"
I almost always take Buggies (as mentioned above). And the flamer buggy (take only one) is so long, it blocks perfectly by itself.

"BW and boyz"
Yes, get them out ASAP ... when the Valkyrie got on board, it blew the BW and 13 out of the 20 boyz inside it (15 hits, 2 armor saves) ... it was so annoying.

"Vehicles in 6E"
In the games I play, I still see a lot of vehicles being used. Vehicles are so useful, even with the Hull Points.

Personnally, what GW should have done is for a glancing hit to:
1- Not lose a HP.
2- Roll on another damage table: 1-4 Shaken 5-6 Stunned .... and nothing else.

I can attest to the effectiveness of Lobbas against light armour and troops. They're an auto-include when I know I'm up against guard, and they massacre soldiers and can even reliably stunlock/kill IG big guns with typically three S5 hits vs AV 10 per battery

Never, ever even considered using buggies. But now that I think about it, for 35 points each you can have whats essentially a TL Rokkit kopta that trades outflanking and T5 W2 for a 10 point discount, AV 10 and fearless. It's 22% cheaper, just as fast (though it can't outflank), similar durability, and won't run off of the board when you use them in squads like a deff kopta will. Thats actually pretty damn good... I've always shied away from the kopta due to that leadership issue, very very interested in giving these a go

I prefer burna bommers over lobbas for that job though. You can pretty much carpet-bomb any light-armored infantry off the table in one bombing run, two missiles, a bomb and a supa-shoota murder anything with a worse save than 3+ and even get to ignore cover on most of these.

Has anyone given any thought to Chaos Space Marines as allies for Orks? Something like Daemon Prince, 10 Cultists, Helldrake?

Ever since 6th came out (originally I was told it was going back to a lot of 4th edition rules). It seems that Gork is no longer smiling upon us. I disagree about orks being cheap, Though compared to a space marine they are cheaper, but the standard Ork Boyz is not even in the same class as a Standard Marine. I think Ork cost to much for what you get. I love their randomness (when I can get it) but even this should be reflected in their cost.
Why don't people take Zagstuck and Vulca Boys? Because you lose 12 to 36 points just to get them on the field. on top of that you don't have any upgrade options - so it's basically a Slugga Boy that dies quicker. Don't get me started on misshaping Deep Strike. This unit would be great, if I didn't have to spend 325 points for them.
Why don't people take Flash Gitz, because for their price (they are expensive at 525 pts) they have to move within 18" of the opponent to do their thing and they are so-so in melee. Also they take up a Heavy Support slot, the choice between a Battlewagon (110 pts) or a Flash Gitz mob.
Kommandos are suppose to be these incredible fighters, instead they are just 10 pt Slugga Boyz with moves through cover, that once they come on the board they have to wait until the next turn to be useful - They usually don't make it to a second turn.

Orks went from being a very versatile army list to only Speed Freaks or Battlewagons. Don't forget to take your 2 squads of Lootas. The randomness is gone and I no longer play to win, I only play to act crazy making ork sounds and goof around until the game is over. As they stand right now, Orks can not be a competitive army and the only way to win is to have your opponent make several tactical errors. I'll get off my soapbox now

 Sleg wrote:
Ever since 6th came out (originally I was told it was going back to a lot of 4th edition rules). It seems that Gork is no longer smiling upon us. I disagree about orks being cheap, Though compared to a space marine they are cheaper, but the standard Ork Boyz is not even in the same class as a Standard Marine. I think Ork cost to much for what you get. I love their randomness (when I can get it) but even this should be reflected in their cost.
Why don't people take Zagstuck and Vulca Boys? Because you lose 12 to 36 points just to get them on the field. on top of that you don't have any upgrade options - so it's basically a Slugga Boy that dies quicker. Don't get me started on misshaping Deep Strike. This unit would be great, if I didn't have to spend 325 points for them.
Why don't people take Flash Gitz, because for their price (they are expensive at 525 pts) they have to move within 18" of the opponent to do their thing and they are so-so in melee. Also they take up a Heavy Support slot, the choice between a Battlewagon (110 pts) or a Flash Gitz mob.
Kommandos are suppose to be these incredible fighters, instead they are just 10 pt Slugga Boyz with moves through cover, that once they come on the board they have to wait until the next turn to be useful - They usually don't make it to a second turn.

Orks went from being a very versatile army list to only Speed Freaks or Battlewagons. Don't forget to take your 2 squads of Lootas. The randomness is gone and I no longer play to win, I only play to act crazy making ork sounds and goof around until the game is over. As they stand right now, Orks can not be a competitive army and the only way to win is to have your opponent make several tactical errors. I'll get off my soapbox now

I don't think orks are doing that bad competitively. I'll take the numbers over quality any day. That being said Tau are a big problem, I like hordes with cover saves and without them I die quickly and painfully, that being said I did actually win against them.

Tau do seem to be the death for my hordes. possibly even the eldar.

But this was interesting data:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/06/40k-army-meta-1-year-into-6th-edition.html

Tau we're the 3rd most represted army, and didn't even make top 4, and apparently orks work well as allies to necrons. As horde armies seem to be the least popular of the armies, playing them means most of your opponents haven't planned as much on dealing with them.

Anvildude wrote:
Not the side of the orky vehicle- rather, the 'hits' happen on the side of the enemy vehicle closest to the Orky vehicle. I think.


and Klaws and Balls are underrated, I think. For 5 and 10 point upgrades, they can be gamechangers, and are much more 'accurate' than most Orky stuff.

I dunno man, so many turreted weapons out there. One thing I love about Dread Mob Scrap Trukks is they come with a klaw for free =P


Automatically Appended Next Post:

eltrain728 wrote:
Has anyone given any thought to Chaos Space Marines as allies for Orks? Something like Daemon Prince, 10 Cultists, Helldrake?

Putting the games most WAAC model into the games least WAAC army seems like a pretty terrible idea to me mate.

That said I'd be ok with it if it was modelled with a Warboss riding the thing

What's his name, that Fantasy Ork boss that rides the Wyvern? It'd be like that.

Probably the only ork ally that was viable was the old tau because 3 Broadsides was literally all you needed to make Orks a crazy scary army even in the competitive scene. Thats gone now, and quite frankly Orks with Tau allies sucks balls now. Its now Tau with 60 boyz and a random Mek allied in for about 500pts or so off the top of my head.

Now that the broadsides suck, its just straight up orks. And i honestly feel that Boyz are the only thing in our codex thats actually cost equivalent to other races. Yes all of our stuf is ~20-50pts cheaper for our equivs but they are not even HALF as good so the cost goes out the window. Looted Wagons vs Leman Russes is the most obvious comparison - ~40-60pts cheaper depending on upgrades and AV11 vs AV14, 36" vs 72" .... not justifying the cost cut at all here. Even if it was 48" it would be much better costwise. But no, 36" puts it close enough so its weak face can be stripped off by a single lascannon no matter how well you position yourself.

/rantoff