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But the way the armor grouping sounds it makes it seem that nobz can still do wound allocations. If I read it right you group them based on their own type of saves. 6+/6+ 5++/4+/4+ 5++ with normal armour, eavy armour and cybork armour giving four different wound groups. Did I read that right?

Don't know, have armor groups been confirmed for the actual 6th edition?

As for allies, I'm going to ally with Pedro Cantor, a couple of sternguard in a las/plas razorback and a lascannon predator. Probably not the most competitive choice, but Pedro and his +1 Attack bubble have always been something I loved in doubles, and I get to field looted tanks that actually are good. Of course, the stern guard are going to be be orks in fancy armor

KrimsunBaron wrote:KFF's were a waste of points anyway,

KrimsunBaron wrote:I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable.

How is a Killa Kan with a cover save generated by a KFF mek behind them less durable than a Killa Kan without a cover save?

KrimsunBaron wrote:For a greentide list I almost don't like terrain. The amount you get slowed by is almost another turns worth, assuming a 4+ SV your halfing your amount of deaths. Now taking another turn to get there it doesn't add any value.

Which is why you use a KFF instead, so you get the cover save without the negative effects that come with terrain.

KrimsunBaron wrote:I never liked wound allocation anyway it's not like they'd go "Wots dis my arms comin' off you ave him" they'd just club him with the missing limb.

They're still highly powerful and have their uses, on the bright side your saving loads of points on your Nob units because your not spending it on multiple BP's and shoota skorcha-rokkits.

Just Cybork body and some PK's and a BP. Simple and cheap.

The amount that you saved through wound allocation at the minute is greater than the amount that you spend in wound allocating as it makes your Nobz much more durable.

I think orks will be fine. Yeah 4+ cover will take a hit, but we can get other stuff in return. Some things I'm looking forward to:

Deff dreads with hull points
Stormboyz with I10 impact hits
Waaaugh letting us reroll the charge distance via fleet
Snap fire with shoota mobs and burna boyz (d3 autohits per flamer)
Grotsnik giving +2 attacks via Rage USR
Looted basilisks and russes (via allied IG)

KrimsunBaron wrote:I'm a ork player, and I think it's going to be fine.
KFF's were a waste of points anyway, I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable..

I... have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... Not any of it makes sense...

Anyway, the only units who would suffer from cover, in honesty, would possibly be Lootas who need to remain stationary. Boyz are used to being in the open, primarely being covered by KFF.

Generally we're going to have to see a few things: How Obscured changes, and how firing through models changes.

BUT, battlewagons with hull points? Oh yeeessss

2D6 charging is going to see us reassessing our measurement guess work (average of 7"), but Fleet reportedly allows us to re-roll. Not to mention the new Squadron rules.

Orks will also have a relatively easier time firing at flyers, since hitting on 6's is only about a 50% drop in hits, compared to the massive bs drop for other races that have few shots yet high bs.

Kharrak wrote:

KrimsunBaron wrote:I'm a ork player, and I think it's going to be fine.
KFF's were a waste of points anyway, I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable..

I... have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... Not any of it makes sense...

Anyway, the only units who would suffer from cover, in honesty, would possibly be Lootas who need to remain stationary. Boyz are used to being in the open, primarely being covered by KFF.

Generally we're going to have to see a few things: How Obscured changes, and how firing through models changes.

BUT, battlewagons with hull points? Oh yeeessss

2D6 charging is going to see us reassessing our measurement guess work (average of 7"), but Fleet reportedly allows us to re-roll. Not to mention the new Squadron rules.

Orks will also have a relatively easier time firing at flyers, since hitting on 6's is only about a 50% drop in hits, compared to the massive bs drop for other races that have few shots yet high bs.

and killing fliers with flyers is even better with dakkajets that are flying aces

Well the board I play on I mainly only get the cover from the KFF anyways for my foorsloggers. My main concern is if they change the cover of obscured targets and the bikes smoke cloud. But thats likely to be in the FAQ.

The bike's smoke cloud is specifically listed in the dex, and i doubt they'll change it before the next ork dex.

Obscured has changed in effect across editions, though, and might do again. We'll just have to wait and see.

As I can't sleep anyways, I'll just start posting anything I think is interesting for orks from that reddit guy who got the rule book handed to him by gork and mork.

- Fearless wounds are gone
- Battlewagons have 4 hull points, buggies 2, everyone else 3
- Passengers can snap-fire(BS 6) from vehicles moving up to 12" - hurray shoota boyz in vehicles!
- All vehicles may snap-fire any weapons they weren't allowed to shoot unless they are blasts, even when going flat-out. So rokkits everywhere, killkannon still useless.
- No codex weapons have skyfire as per the updated weapon lists, only weapons on terrain pieces do.
- Koptaz always have cover as long as they move
- May not disembark if the vehicle moved more than 6", you disembark 6" now though.
- Moving Vehicles are always hit on 3+ in close combat.
- You lose your bonus attack for charging in multi-assaults
- Overwatch shooting is once per unit per turn, and can make assaults fail. Ganging up with trukkboyz is going to be a lot better.
- On a 2+ your warboss will toss one of da ladz into the rocket aimed at him. A nob will do the same on a 4+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and most importantly:
At 2000+ points you can now field 18 kanz marching in front of you boyz

rabidaskal wrote:
Grotsnik giving +2 attacks via Rage USR

Grotsnik does not have the Rage USR.

Jidmah wrote:

- Fearless wounds are gone

*leans forward in chair

Oh my god. that is extremely good news. Where are you getting that from?

Check the news section. I posted a link to a reddit thread made by a guy who had obtained the book early (photographic evidence confirmed).

What really bugs me is that you lose your charging bonus for multi-assaulting. What does that even accomplish, other than discouraging intelligent play? I used to love spending the better part of a game setting up a single, game changing multi-assault with a unit of Nobz or Paladins.

Jidmah wrote:As I can't sleep anyways, I'll just start posting anything I think is interesting for orks from that reddit guy who got the rule book handed to him by gork and mork.

- Fearless wounds are gone
- Battlewagons have 4 hull points, buggies 2, everyone else 3
- Passengers can snap-fire(BS 6) from vehicles moving up to 12" - hurray shoota boyz in vehicles!
- All vehicles may snap-fire any weapons they weren't allowed to shoot unless they are blasts, even when going flat-out. So rokkits everywhere, killkannon still useless.
- No codex weapons have skyfire as per the updated weapon lists, only weapons on terrain pieces do.
- Koptaz always have cover as long as they move
- May not disembark if the vehicle moved more than 6", you disembark 6" now though.
- Moving Vehicles are always hit on 3+ in close combat.
- You lose your bonus attack for charging in multi-assaults
- Overwatch shooting is once per unit per turn, and can make assaults fail. Ganging up with trukkboyz is going to be a lot better.
- On a 2+ your warboss will toss one of da ladz into the rocket aimed at him. A nob will do the same on a 4+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and most importantly:
At 2000+ points you can now field 18 kanz marching in front of you boyz

Pretty great catches there. Obviously, the game is about to change dramatically.
I wonder how Ork players are going to address it all.

Also, "- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck." sounds like a good rule for massing lootas.

TedNugent wrote:

rabidaskal wrote:
Grotsnik giving +2 attacks via Rage USR

Grotsnik does not have the Rage USR.

Ugh, you're right, got it confused with his Scalpel Short of a Medpack rule

We'll be stuck with than lousy rule until a new dex drops, unless it gets FAQ'd to be Rage (unlikely)

I may be missing something here but I keep hearing that hull points are a good thing. I still fail to see why anyone would take anything but fliers this edition given the massive amounts of glancing hits most armies can hand out.

Aside from the fact that only the IG, SM's of various flavours, Necrons and Orks have fliers (and Daemons and Nids if flying monstrous creatures count..?

Tau have no flier as yet, Eldar likewise, DE do, but its an anti-infantry bird. The voidraven hasn't got a model yet, and isn't that great ruleswise (though that may change with the new rules)

CSM don't have a flier either (unless flying GD/DP count), come to that, and neither do sisters..

Vehicles will still be seen on the battlefield. They can be glanced down easier, but are going to be far harder to one-shot kill..

So if the cover save is not addressed in the 6th edition FAQ, and obscured is turned into 5+, does the old FAQ ruling that vehicles get a 4+ cover from KFF stand?

Billagio wrote:So if the cover save is not addressed in the 6th edition FAQ, and obscured is turned into 5+, does the old FAQ ruling that vehicles get a 4+ cover from KFF stand?

I suspect all current FAQ's will disappear - and as such the current Codex: Ork ruling will remain, at which point it will indeed be 5+.

It's a nasty change - I playtested with it using the Pancake edition, and it notably reduced its effectiveness.

I'm still waiting on the Squadron rule changes (if any).

But yeah, burying your Nob and Special Weapons is really important now. As for 2D6 assault... on average, one should be okay - but rolling less than 5-6" is really going to result in a nasty follow up opponent turn. Not to mention a bad Overwatch firing round may decimate the boyz.

Hitting vehicles on a 3+ is a boon for boyz, likely more so a good thing than a bad thing (considering enemies assaulting ork vehicles). Unless there's a unique ruling (which there may possibly be) about assaulting fast vehicles, trukks will lose that 6+ to hit bonus with RPJ.

Snap fire, even on flat out, is quite nice.

Off-center blasts hitting at full strength is really nice for Grotzookas - may make Kilkannon a choice worth considering.

Billagio wrote:So if the cover save is not addressed in the 6th edition FAQ, and obscured is turned into 5+, does the old FAQ ruling that vehicles get a 4+ cover from KFF stand?

The guy with the rulebook said that obscured vehicles in the open get 5+ cover. The only regular way to get 4+ cover now are ruins, and those have some drawbacks to them. You can aim your shooting at specific floors and kill only those models - no more heavy weapons standing on top of a ruin with everyone else hiding behind walls.

So unless the FAQ isn't changed it goes to 5+.

As for hull points: Previously all glances could stun, immobilize or wreck our open topped vehicles - not any more. Glances do nothing but reduce your hull points by one. In addition to that, the damage table (which is only rolled on for pens) got a lot "softer" with wrecked being replaced with shaken. So I'd say battlewagons and expecially trukks got a hell lot more reliable in delivering orks forward.

Another thing to muse about: AP 2 is +1 to the damage table, so KMB on kanz might become staples now. I doubt that meks or flash gits are going to see more play than they do now though. Oh, and PKs are AP 2

I thought a FAQ overruled a rulebook though?

The FAQ explicitly states 4+.

So what you're saying is that a new rulebook edition overrules an explicitly clarified FAQ. Which, incidentally, is something I think we need answered in a FAQ.

TedNugent wrote:I thought a FAQ overruled a rulebook though?

The FAQ explicitly states 4+.

So what you're saying is that a new rulebook edition overrules an explicitly clarified FAQ. Which, incidentally, is something I think we need answered in a FAQ.

I'm guessing that the old FAQ will go away, and be replaced by a new FAQ, and I also suspect that the new FAQ will mention the KFF since it's always been so confusing for (new) players.

I just hoping that GW uses this opportunity to FAQ in some patches to several of the Codices. It's a perfect chance to level out some of the weaker armies.
"fingers crossed"

TedNugent wrote:I thought a FAQ overruled a rulebook though?

The FAQ explicitly states 4+.

So what you're saying is that a new rulebook edition overrules an explicitly clarified FAQ. Which, incidentally, is something I think we need answered in a FAQ.

If the new FAQ contains the same answer, we keep 4+. If it doesn't, we don't. The guy from reddit only knows the rulebook, not the FAQs.

Fafnir wrote:Check the news section. I posted a link to a reddit thread made by a guy who had obtained the book early (photographic evidence confirmed).

What really bugs me is that you lose your charging bonus for multi-assaulting. What does that even accomplish, other than discouraging intelligent play? I used to love spending the better part of a game setting up a single, game changing multi-assault with a unit of Nobz or Paladins.

Seeing as nobody except those who truly loved wound allocation preferred that method..

Generally, if you want nobz to survive better, put them in Mega-Armor, 2+ killers are rarer now thanks to a difference between power weapons being returned (DCA cannot penetrate your armor for example) Or for normal, you put 4+ armor on the ones in front, than have them take the damage. Not to mention that FNP isn't ignored against power weapons, you'll have a nice 4+/5++.

You can't "put nobz in mega-armor". If you could, they would see play much more often. As it is now, they got slightly better in close combat against power weapons, which weren't the problem in the first place.

They still have gak ld, can't have a boss pole or a waagh! banner and implode to powerfists or hammers due to missing invul save.

Besides FNP is 5+ now, so you'd only get 5+/5++ against power weapons, which is only slightly better than a 4+ save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something I just found:

Str can now go above 10.

So, warbosses are now officially S11 on the charge.

Just realized that since pre-measuring is in, that completely negates any bonus that Targeting Squigs may provide.

Does this mean that they may be errata'd to grant BS3, or (gasp!) twin-linked?

Between the extra I10 attack on the charge and re-rolling of charge length for jump infantry, and the nerfing of transports along with the fact running and charging is no longer allowed even with fleet, I am really looking forward to trying out my Stormboyz in 6th. They really got a massive boost.

The kid in me would love to chime in on rumors but the adult scientist in me won't allow it. So I'll just restate some previous thoughts:

Weird boyz should be a 1-3 IC or Upgrade elites choice ala BA priests or Wolf Guard or royal court. Making them only HQ was a huge mistake. a special HQ pysker could still work especially if he gives global bonuses like Mad Doc.

Boyz need Krak grenades to handle opponents AV 12 Dreds.

Other than that there is too much I want to say so I'm going to hold off. At least we now have a weak MC Squiggoth. Should be a regular choice for the codex but whatever. . .

Anything I posted is hardly rumors anymore. There are people with the actual rulebook in hands answering questions now.

That's true for a small minority.
The things about allies and the rest are confirmed by the WD and Gamesworkshop website.

Now that I've gotten a good look at all the verifications to rules rumors from the guys with the books, I'm chomping at the bit to see the Ork FAQ. Because short of some amazing FAQ-age, I feel like the Orks just slipped from being semi-comp, with several interesting builds (If 3 can be considered "several") to non-comp, and monolisted.
=-(