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If I understand correctly, our Wagons are faster. We can go 12" in the movement phase, and then another 6" in the shooting phase. I don't know if this applies to fast vehicles only, but if it doesn't, I can see Wagon Rush being much better. Again though, we need the rules and FAQ until we can figure out what we can do.

Gentlemen, If I may

The minuses:
1. cover saves reduced by 33%
2. overwatch fire killing, well not much since we are T4

The plusses
1. increased assault distance (word is vehicles can move 6, disembark2, then unit inside could move then assault
2. Hull point system means glancing down vehicles becomes realistic, causing auto-wrecks, if the vehicle is surrounded in boyz, bye bye unit
3. dakkajet is a beast, and lets you reach out and deal with walled off threats
4. flyers are relatively ineffective, we are already hitting on a 5/6, hitting on a 6 is no big deal, lootas can also move and shoot
5. wound allocation does not effect orks as much as you think, just dont put your nob in the front row and you are gold.

I like this idea of moving a wagon 12", then snapshotting with the unit inside. I can see myself taking "snapshots" with BS1 burnas all day long
The zooming fliers thing also makes sense of the burna bomb. Being able to drop at 37" is a lot better than 13".

Grundz wrote:Just a note, trukks have a 32" assault range

so yeah, delivering your whole army into his lines on the first turn seems to negate the whole cover thing.

This.

DakkaHammer wrote:I like this idea of moving a wagon 12", then snapshotting with the unit inside. I can see myself taking "snapshots" with BS1 burnas all day long
The zooming fliers thing also makes sense of the burna bomb. Being able to drop at 37" is a lot better than 13".

another fun note, if you leave them open topped you can (theoretically) snap shot 20 S3 frag grenades if you bought stikkbomms for the unit, or, since tankbustabomms are labeled as krak grenades, a dozen S6+2d6 krak grenades
Also since vehicles can move during the shooting phase, depending on how tank shock is done, we may be able to double-deffroll things

Not positive, but I don't think the Boyz would be able to disembark after a 12" + 6" move. I'm pretty sure they ares tuck in the transport after that.
Can someone verify?
Also, how do you get 32" assault range for Trukks?
And once again, not positive, but I think that it's a SINGLE grenade per unit, so only one grenade for that wagon full of boyz.

matphat wrote:Not positive, but I don't think the Boyz would be able to disembark after a 12" + 6" move. I'm pretty sure they ares tuck in the transport after that.
Can someone verify?
Also, how do you get 32" assault range for Trukks?
And once again, not positive, but I think that it's a SINGLE grenade per unit, so only one grenade for that wagon full of boyz.

that was before all the rumors now out, were out, it actually appears to be about

6" vehicle move +1" rpj
2" disembark
6" unit move
12" assault

so about the same, if fleet increases speed and doesn't allow rerolls it's another +6

Grundz wrote:another fun note, if you leave them open topped you can (theoretically) snap shot 20 S3 frag grenades if you bought stikkbomms for the unit, or, since tankbustabomms are labeled as krak grenades, a dozen S6+2d6 krak grenades
Also since vehicles can move during the shooting phase, depending on how tank shock is done, we may be able to double-deffroll things

Oo, double deff rolla would be nice. Especially if you end your move so that you run the same target over again in the movement phase
This edition might mess up all kinds of crap, but it kooks like orks are gonna be having some serious fun!

I'm getting some interesting ideas regarding the relative increase or decrease of power in various Ork units in 6th.
Can anyone comment on these?
Mega Armored Nobz are buffed by the power weapon ignoring rules.
Lootas are buffed by the new heavy shooting rules, and Hull points.
Shoota Boyz are buffed by the snapshot rules.

Any more?

all orks are buffed by fearless (no more no retreat!)
orks are weakened by AP on CC weapons somewhat

Armor overall is weakened, orks dont rely on high armor values usually (so net win)

Burna trukks are buffed by more range
Rokkit wagons are buffed by hull points and ability to fire lots of rokkits (same for tankbustas)

Anyone think the updated FAQs will address some of our problem areas, or will it just be to line up the current problems with the new rules?

matphat wrote:I'm getting some interesting ideas regarding the relative increase or decrease of power in various Ork units in 6th.
Can anyone comment on these?
Mega Armored Nobz are buffed by the power weapon ignoring rules.
Lootas are buffed by the new heavy shooting rules, and Hull points.
Shoota Boyz are buffed by the snapshot rules.

Any more?

Snap fire for vehicles. - I'll spend a few more points to give my Battlewagons 4 big shootas in total and maybe a Zzap gun. Then I can fire 12 Big Shoota rounds and a zzap gun at BS1. BS1 isn't that much of a setback for Orks. Heck, I think I'll stick a Big Shoota in each of my wagon riding mobs now! 16 shots out of 3 (for me anyways) battlewagons is 48 PLUS 3 zzap guns is mighty fearsome.

Heck, maybe I'll fill one wagon with Shoota boyz! That much dakka, even if it's BS1 is just awesome!

Orks aren't going to be crippled, they could actually become much more powerful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).

Dr. What wrote:
EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).

How so? I'm curious.

Because you can move farther and still drop the bomm, and you can fire off everything at top speed.

matphat wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).

How so? I'm curious.

Well, first off, it's not quite as pricy as people were complaining about.

If I were to run one, I'd take a Dakkajet with it, so I could still have some anti-flyer (or anti anything with a 4+ or worse (Looking at you, Necrons!).

But the major problem with the Burna Bommer was that it had got to stop 1 inch away from it's target, drop a bomb, then sit out in the open waiting to crash and burn.

Now, it can get it's awesome 6+ with the new flyer rules, and drop flaming fury onto the enemy.

It's still risky, but it's not as bad now.

Plus, what Ork doesn't like giant exploding fireballs?

Ok, now I get it. I wasn't really applying the new flier rules like I should have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next curiosity.
How will the boyz be affected by removing casualties from the front? Where does the Nob go? Does this mean the end of charging, and the beginning of gun line orks?
Or just the opposite, the return of the choppa boyz?

matphat wrote:Ok, now I get it. I wasn't really applying the new flier rules like I should have.
Next curiosity.
How will the boyz be affected by removing casualties from the front? Where does the Nob go? Does this mean the end of charging, and the beginning of gun line orks?
Or just the opposite, the return of the choppa boyz?

here's the rub

if you put the nob all the way in the back, he becomes vulnerable to having the squad gutted by a drop pod or flanking (whats this, flanking in my warhamer?!?

this is something a ton of people aren't looking at and are playing wrong, outflanking or drop podding behind a unit and gutting it of its special weapons is the name of the game kids, best place for a nob is in the middle of the mob, maybe a little farther back.

matphat wrote:

Next curiosity.
How will the boyz be affected by removing casualties from the front? Where does the Nob go? Does this mean the end of charging, and the beginning of gun line orks?
Or just the opposite, the return of the choppa boyz?

The from the front could hurt, but aren't we used to losing boyz? I will be sticking to my battlewagons.

The Nob'll go into the middle to ensure that he can't get picked off from the rear either.

Gun line Orks? Cowardice!

Also, Stikkbomb chuckas might be useful with the ability to throw grenades.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: Ninja'd on Nob tactica...

It seems the paranoia in some cases, has already begun...
Wait for the rule book before worrying about your armys ruleset dieing in a fire.

No paranoia here, just a calm discussion about verified rules coming from people who have the book in hand.

My concern is my unit of boyz getting hosed down by snap fire once I got to assault an enemy unit. Not enough boyz in that trukk to take the wounds and still come out on top during the assault. Granted its at BS 1, but could still happen. With extra FOC slots opening up at 2000, I may look into more kans, and battle wagons as a possibility. Though from the looks of things Storm Boyz may be worth taking, even if their I10 attack is at base strength.

Here is an interesting though Mek boyz w/ KMB might actually be usable in units of Burna Boyz

Grundz wrote:Gentlemen, If I may

The minuses:
1. cover saves reduced by 33%
2. overwatch fire killing, well not much since we are T4

The plusses
1. increased assault distance (word is vehicles can move 6, disembark2, then unit inside could move then assault
2. Hull point system means glancing down vehicles becomes realistic, causing auto-wrecks, if the vehicle is surrounded in boyz, bye bye unit
3. dakkajet is a beast, and lets you reach out and deal with walled off threats
4. flyers are relatively ineffective, we are already hitting on a 5/6, hitting on a 6 is no big deal, lootas can also move and shoot
5. wound allocation does not effect orks as much as you think, just dont put your nob in the front row and you are gold.

6. Anyone charging ork mobs is now fethed. You charge my slugga boyz? Eat 30 pistol shots! My shoota boyz? 60 shoota bullets! Burnaz? Roll 15 1d3!
Orks are weak to getting charged no more.

Dr. What wrote:

matphat wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).

How so? I'm curious.

Well, first off, it's not quite as pricy as people were complaining about.

If I were to run one, I'd take a Dakkajet with it, so I could still have some anti-flyer (or anti anything with a 4+ or worse (Looking at you, Necrons!).

But the major problem with the Burna Bommer was that it had got to stop 1 inch away from it's target, drop a bomb, then sit out in the open waiting to crash and burn.

Actually, the burna bommer drops its bomb just like the kopta. Only the blitza bommer does the 1" thing. Both got a serious buff though, as they can now move 36" and drop their bombs somewhere on the way.

Funny that you mention necrons though. I went to the store on saturday to finally test my new planes and picked up a kid with necrons. I had a kan wall with a bunch of lootaz and all three bommer variants, and he was obviously list tailoring against me when I put my orks on the table, but I didn't mind. So it was tremor-cons with me getting killed for moving at all basically - in my first shooting phase we both realized that almost every single unit I had on the board was AP4 (grotzookaz. suppa-shootas, skorcha-missiles. skorcha bomms, boom bomms, deff guns). Well, end of the story, I shot him off the table without my boyz leaving my deployment zone. The skorcha bommer and the dakka jet did amazing, the blitza bommer lost all his weapons and was immobilized turn 2 though. He was terrified of the thought of me dropping melta bombs on his AV13 stuff. But, as irony has it, when I called my Waagh! the useless grot gunner in the back(last weapon remaining) blasted his C'Tan shard off the table with his six big shoota shots

l0k1 wrote:My concern is my unit of boyz getting hosed down by snap fire once I got to assault an enemy unit. Not enough boyz in that trukk to take the wounds and still come out on top during the assault. Granted its at BS 1, but could still happen. With extra FOC slots opening up at 2000, I may look into more kans, and battle wagons as a possibility.

I wouldn't worry too much about overwatch. The biggest possible unit of marines is the black templar troops choice, totaling 20 boltguns. 20 bolt guns (or any other 40 shots wounding on 4+ and ignoring 6+ armor) at BS1 result in 3.33 dead orks, or 2.22 if you have the KFF nearby. If you had charged that unit at current rules, you would have taken much more fearless wounds than that. In comparrison: 40 Lasguns kill 4.44 orks. Just don't go charging into veteran squads with four heavy flamers or similar, that might hurt.

Though from the looks of things Storm Boyz may be worth taking, even if their I10 attack is at base strength.

Storm boyz finally got that little something they needed over regular boyz. Whether this makes them awesome or just on par with boyz remains to be seen. The new mishap table (only 1/6 change to get killed) makes Zagstrukk a lot more interesting, too.

Here is an interesting though Mek boyz w/ KMB might actually be usable in units of Burna Boyz

How so? The still have a higher chance to kill themselves than a terminator or MAN. To add insult to injury, they even have a higher chance to kill themselves than to take a single hull point off an AV13 vehicle. Until they are at least allowed to take boss poles(you know, like shown on the model itself), my meks stay in my bitz box.

I figured they might be useful just because they have a AP 2 weapon for melting Terminators, and the +1 to the damage chart can help pop vehicles.

It's still only one shot and 24" on a model that costs 15 points at least. KMB might work on killa kanz and maybe even koptaz (too lazy to do the math) but not on meks. Deff gunz are better than KMB and you don't want to waste 15 templates by shooting a vehicle.

True. Still I figured they could be used with Burna Boyz. I do think KMB on Kans, maybe Koptas and Dreads might see a lot of play now.

Dreads? No wai! Big Stompy is now more unstoppable than ever with 3 hull points and no damage results from shaken, he'll just walk over to the enemy and have a field day with his four DCCW

Jid: Yeah the overwatch thing is a good point, while other races actually pay for their guns, orks are balanced to have BS2 so having BS1 really isn't as big of a deal as with other armies.

I had /completely/ forgotton about stormboys, if you hop them in a trukk you're looking at
6+1 trukk move
12+1d6 unit move
2d6 charge range

O_o

//edit, can stormboys get in a trukk?

I'm pretty sure any unit can get in a trukk, but they just can't START in a trukk.
Another thought.
Rokkit Buggies just got a lot more deadly in squads due to hull points. And that is going both ways.
Unless the squad rules have changed.
Lastly, does anyone know anything about bikes? I was thinking of building up a biker boy army, and I'm wondering if it's still a good idea.

Grundz wrote://edit, can stormboys get in a trukk?

Nope. They're jump infantry, who are (in 5th ed) specifically denied from entering transports.