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In England Orks are listed at the bottom and I'm a rare player because I only play orks - you would never see me field any other army. They are considered by most competitive players, the most limited and with 6th favoring the shooters non threating army in the game.

Every Army has that 1 figure you just have to have. Imperial has Lemin Rus Tanks, Space wolves have Long Fangs, Tyranids have Hive Guard, etc. etc. What do Orks have? Lootas and they will gain 'gets hot' only because Orks shouldn't have a must take figure. Over half the units in the codex, no one really takes (I do but I'm goofy like that). I wont count the Lootas, but think of when the last time you built a force without a Battlewagon or Bikkers. Because ork vehicles and walkers need a save (especially in the first 2 turns of the game), you should always take at least one Big Mek KFF. So now a third of your armies points plus a HQ and 2 Elite slots - that's even before you begin building your army. I know I need protection for my lootas and the ADL (when they go to ground give a 2+ cover save) otherwise I use 2 heavy support slots for 2 battlewagons and I still haven't figured out what my army is.

6th edition was built for Tau - it's like they had Tau in mind when they made the rulebook. If the Tau players didn't place higher than 4th and had a large Tau showing, I blame the players for either not playing the Tau properly and exploiting their strengths. With the Exception of only 2 other armies (Tyranids and Deamons) the Tau should have just crushed everyone without even breaking a sweat.

I run Loota/Battlewagon/Biker-less armies all the time and do pretty well. Then again I play more fluff games than competitive ones

Lootas have no place in my army. I either go green tide with BOYZ and burnas in transports or Death Stars w providing max protection

Dafuq? Do you actually win without lootas?

Every time i DONT field them, even at small point games, i have this glaring hole in my army and my opponent exploits it. Ive taken a single group of lootas before just to either take out the random flier or force that flier to deal with the lootas and not my much more deadlier and not in combat yet bikernobz lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Dafuq? Do you actually win without lootas?

Every time i DONT field them, even at small point games, i have this glaring hole in my army and my opponent exploits it. Ive taken a single group of lootas before just to either take out the random flier or force that flier to deal with the lootas and not my much more deadlier and not in combat yet bikernobz lol

Iv'e had trukk rush armies without lootas, being allready close combat that fast makes me avoid the flyers

Tankbustas. Can run'n'gun, and are actually more reliable against higher armour, especially you can maneuver them within 13".

 Sleg wrote:
In England Orks are listed at the bottom and I'm a rare player because I only play orks - you would never see me field any other army. They are considered by most competitive players, the most limited and with 6th favoring the shooters non threating army in the game.

Every Army has that 1 figure you just have to have. Imperial has Lemin Rus Tanks, Space wolves have Long Fangs, Tyranids have Hive Guard, etc. etc. What do Orks have? Lootas and they will gain 'gets hot' only because Orks shouldn't have a must take figure. Over half the units in the codex, no one really takes (I do but I'm goofy like that). I wont count the Lootas, but think of when the last time you built a force without a Battlewagon or Bikkers. Because ork vehicles and walkers need a save (especially in the first 2 turns of the game), you should always take at least one Big Mek KFF. So now a third of your armies points plus a HQ and 2 Elite slots - that's even before you begin building your army. I know I need protection for my lootas and the ADL (when they go to ground give a 2+ cover save) otherwise I use 2 heavy support slots for 2 battlewagons and I still haven't figured out what my army is.

6th edition was built for Tau - it's like they had Tau in mind when they made the rulebook. If the Tau players didn't place higher than 4th and had a large Tau showing, I blame the players for either not playing the Tau properly and exploiting their strengths. With the Exception of only 2 other armies (Tyranids and Deamons) the Tau should have just crushed everyone without even breaking a sweat.

I've never been a fan of the ADL, But after facing a tau army that didn't give me a single cover save I'm taking the skyshield for my lootas, and I'll probably end up throwing a SAG and a looted wagon up there as well.

ADL depends on who youre playing. Fortifications screw around with the board rules for deploying/setting up terrain and make no freaking sense. You can easily screw over an ADL by placing a big terrain chunk in front of it, which is perfectly legal. Why you would "fortify" a location that cant shoot anything is beyond me but apparently GW thinks thats how it should be.
One gun with 48-72" range is not broken if it gets free reign over the table, and it has no elevation so things behind it can rarely get their whole range.
We usually deploy it with the army because it makes WAY more sense that way.

What's the current thinking on burnas? I want some in my army because I really love the minis, but they seem so incredibly situational that I'd almost have to gear the rest of my army around them in order to make them effective.

i dont see burna wagons being any more than downright hilarious and fun. Move more than 7" with RPJ, you cant fire. And it puts the BW in a critical place that removes a LOT of what little defenses it has.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ADL depends on who youre playing. Fortifications screw around with the board rules for deploying/setting up terrain and make no freaking sense. You can easily screw over an ADL by placing a big terrain chunk in front of it, which is perfectly legal. Why you would "fortify" a location that cant shoot anything is beyond me but apparently GW thinks thats how it should be.
One gun with 48-72" range is not broken if it gets free reign over the table, and it has no elevation so things behind it can rarely get their whole range.
We usually deploy it with the army because it makes WAY more sense that way.

I've never seen fortifications actually used the way GW says to use them. We're pretty liberal with the "feth that makes no sense, change it" attitude around here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Kvlt Ghost wrote:
What's the current thinking on burnas? I want some in my army because I really love the minis, but they seem so incredibly situational that I'd almost have to gear the rest of my army around them in order to make them effective.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont see burna wagons being any more than downright hilarious and fun. Move more than 7" with RPJ, you cant fire. And it puts the BW in a critical place that removes a LOT of what little defenses it has.

Take Dread Mob allies, and you can run Burnas with a dedicated transport trukk. Otherwise load them up in a Big Squiggoth. Either of these >>> battlewagons IMO, largely because losing half your squad of 15 point burna boys when the vehicle blows up is super gak.

The Burnas themselves are fantastic units. They'll murder hordes and can even kill MEQ or TEQ through weight of fire. Their power weapon is seriously overrated though, only any good if they charge in behind other boys to take the hits. Striking last with such an expensive and fragile model is not fun.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i dont see burna wagons being any more than downright hilarious and fun. Move more than 7" with RPJ, you cant fire. And it puts the BW in a critical place that removes a LOT of what little defenses it has.

Well, it did quite well for me. I think it actually got an extra layer of protection, due to 15-16x wall of death overwatch when anyone attempts to charge them. Just like for lootaz or tankbustaz, the S4 explosion is a kick in the nuts though. Losing another 120 points worth in orks on top of the 120 point battlewagon breaks the deal imo.
I think the the dakkajet pretty much does the same as the burna wagon (puts a metric ton of wounds into something), and doesn't require as much maneuvering as a burna wagon. Since dakka jet+20 boyz cost only a little more than 15 burnaz, I prefer going that route.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Take Dread Mob allies, and you can run Burnas with a dedicated transport trukk. Otherwise load them up in a Big Squiggoth. Either of these >>> battlewagons IMO, largely because losing half your squad of 15 point burna boys when the vehicle blows up is super gak.

Or put the painboss with the burnaz and maybe cybork them - you won't care about the explosion (or incoming small army fire) in that case.

Edit: Wtf, I literally posted your exact idea at the same time that you did.

With a Painboss and KFF you'd lose like 3 Burnas out of 15. Not bad at all.

Edit #2: Wouldn't bother with the cybork. I'm a strong believer that spending 33% of the price of the model for a 33% durability boost... without a boost to firepower or speed or something, isn't really worth it.

Now a cyborked Squiggoth, that could be good fun =D

Painboy allow you to cybork only Spannaboyz.

ive never delved into FW and i kinda dont want to. That stuff is crazy expensive, i need another rulebook, and theres plenty of people that believe EVERYTHING from FW is broken as hell...which it isnt long as you leave out the obvious apoc only stuff (StrD stuff for instance)

I use forgeworld extensively, just because the Ork codex is terribly outdated.

Give it a try man, and you'll never be able to look at our decade old codex the same way again

In regards to the ADL a lot of tournaments have players take turns placing the terrain on the table (but only in their own table half) or will have tables with presetup terrain. Both of these will prevent someone from sticking a huge piece of LOS blocking terrain in from of you ADL.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
ive never delved into FW and i kinda dont want to. That stuff is crazy expensive, i need another rulebook, and theres plenty of people that believe EVERYTHING from FW is broken as hell...which it isnt long as you leave out the obvious apoc only stuff (StrD stuff for instance)

You should still get Imperial Armor 8 from somewhere. Even without rules, it's an awesome read and has lots of great pictures. As for shelling out for forgeworld stuff, you can easily build a viable dreadmob army without ever visiting forgeworld's homepage to order something:
- Scraptrukks are slower trukks with a grabbin' klaw and more armor.
- A painboss is a painboy with the independent character rule.
- A mekkboy junka is a looted rhino with a deff rolla and a funky engine/more exhaust pipes.
- Cybork slashers are nobz with even more cybork parts (terrible rules though).
- Spanna boyz are boyz with toolish-looking weapons, converting a choppa into a spanna is so easy, even a blind grot with one arm could do it.
- Gretchin scavengers are gretchin with grenades.
- Sardsnark da Rippa is a biker warboss with a chainsaw for an arm.
- Lifta-Droppas are battlewagons with a doomsday looking kannon in the back. Either scratchbuild it or raid toys'r'us.
- Killa kanz, Deff dreads, burnaz, lootaz, meks, big meks are all stock models.

The only things which are truly unique are Mekboss Buzzgob, mega/mekka dreads, grot tanks and big trakks. You'd have to scratchbuild or buy those.

Grot Tanks are easy as to scratch build, and also any number of cheap WW2 model tanks could suffice. I tried making Big Trakks without enough research and ended up with nine Battlewagon/Looted Wagon vehicles instead. They seem to be about the size of a trukk, but lower and a little wider.

Imperial Armour 8 is very easy to get your hands on if you talk to the right people.

 Dakkamite wrote:
..I tried making Big Trakks without enough research and ended up with nine Battlewagon/Looted Wagon vehicles instead...

Imperial Armour 8 is very easy to get your hands on if you talk to the right people.

Wait, what?

??? That's surprising, and a bit cryptic.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Grot Tanks are easy as to scratch build, and also any number of cheap WW2 model tanks could suffice. I tried making Big Trakks without enough research and ended up with nine Battlewagon/Looted Wagon vehicles instead. They seem to be about the size of a trukk, but lower and a little wider.

Imperial Armour 8 is very easy to get your hands on if you talk to the right people.

Or know what Google is...

So here's a question: if you had to choose one or the other, do you think it's better to take bunas or lootas?

That isnt even a question....lootas are 1000000x better than burnas lol

Thats a pretty strange question. I don't know the context of the decision, the list its working with, and so on.

Generally speaking I would take Lootas over Burnas, but theres no reason not to get both.

I guess to a degree it depends on your dice luck. I have miserable luck throwing dice so my lootas have never performed the way they should even though I've fielded them dozens of times. Flamers are less dependent on dice rolling, but they are much more dependent on precise deployment in battle in order to get the most out of them.

Noteably, Codex: Dread Mob allows you to take three of each of these units. Probably need to give that a go tbh

The ADL is scrap against Drop Pods and/or Ignores Cover weapons. It's great for anything that doesn't move - SAG and Big Gunz, if you place your quad gun in the right spot tey will have to dig out your Kannons to use it (if they don't control it you still do, even without a figure next to it BS 2. For an Ork that's shooting as usual.

Lootas in a Battlewagon is very cool. especially if you have Meks with Big Shootas, sitting in there doing repairs. You can move (still snap shot) and face it to any flanking mob. If one shot is in range they all are - I wish they gave lootas a Battlewagon as a Dedicated Transport.

For those taking allied Dread Mob, do you find the painboss needs a mob with a Nob?
I'm looking at the spanna boyz mob and I don't know what to do with them.


If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?



Related:
How does the squigoth relate to those it is transported: what happens when the squigoth dies while the boyz are still inside and does the Squigoth interact with the mob inside differently because its an MC?

 Accipiter wrote:
For those taking allied Dread Mob, do you find the painboss needs a mob with a Nob?
I'm looking at the spanna boyz mob and I don't know what to do with them.


If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?



Related:
How does the squigoth relate to those it is transported: what happens when the squigoth dies while the boyz are still inside and does the Squigoth interact with the mob inside differently because its an MC?

Related:
Now that's a great question, I've been debating getting a couple squigoths and would like to know as well.

I can see that Rules debate going 2 ways,
nice way: deploy as an emergency disembarkation.
Mean way, Removing the model takes its passengers with it. As there are no rules to tell you how to disembark from MC transports.